Electric Torque Is No Replacement for a High-Revving Engine - RoadandTrack

[Marshall Placid]

Jack Baruth on Electric cars, Turbo-Engine cars, and Naturally Aspirated Cars (skip to the end for the TLDR quote):

From RoadandTrack:

It's possible you didn't notice, what with all this drama from the Long Beach races this past weekend, but the number of people who have put down $1000 "pre-orders" for the Tesla Model 3 now stands at nearly 400,000. I'd be surprised if all or even most of them actually show up at a Tesla dealer three years from now to take delivery of a car.

I'm reliably informed that kids refer to the sum of $1000 as a "stack". As in: I just paid 14 stacks for this Rolex Daytona. Don't confuse that with a "ticket", which refers to a sum of $1,000,000. As in the Iggy Azalea phrase: somethin' worth half a ticket on my wrist, which means that she is wearing a $500,000 watch or bracelet. A stack is much less than a ticket. It's also much less than it costs to buy a Nissan Leaf. If you bought a Nissan Leaf instead of putting a deposit down on a Model 3, you'd own an electric car right now instead of three years from now. But not only would that cost you more money, it would also involve owning a Nissan Leaf.

The Model 3, which in its current pre-production form looks like a cross between the first-generation Nissan Stanza hatchback and the unlamented 1999 Mercury Cougar, is supposed to have all sorts of surprise-and-delight features like a heads-up display and special doorhandles. If some of the early scuttlebutt is to be believed, it's also likely to be quite quick, at least from 0-60. That's very much part of the Tesla brand; both the original Roadster and the higher-end versions of the Model S post spectacular numbers in 0-60 and quarter-mile testing. The Model S P90D, in Ludicrous Mode, can break into the elevens at the dragstrip.

In fact, there's been no end of fuss made about Tesla's straight-line performance. So why aren't enthusiasts flocking to electric cars the way they're clogging up dealer waiting lists for Hellcat-powered Chargers and Challengers? Sure, a Model S isn't exactly the perfect trackday car. In the hands of Nurburgring resident Robb Holland, it could only manage a "bridge-to-gantry" lap time of approximately 10 minutes. Given that I've run a 9:15 bridge-to-gantry in a 163-hp Mercedes-Benz SLK200 rental car, I can't say that I'm impressed by that time. I'm also not surprised. Electric cars face some real issues with heat dispersal when they're asked to haul ass for any significant length of time.

It should be noted, however, that there are plenty of very popular performance cars that aren't Nurburgring superstars, including the aforementioned Hellcats, which turn in times that are about what the new Boxster S can do with less than half the power. There's been a market for stoplight superstars since the very first time two cars lined up next to each other at a red light. Yet Tesla has almost no mindshare among the kind of buyers who made the outgoing Shelby GT500 and its mighty 662-horsepower "Trinity" engine such a success. What gives?

One potential answer to that question came to me last week in Las Vegas. My new wife, previously referred to in these pages as "Danger Girl", and my brother agreed to meet me at Pole Position indoor karting for a friendly battle. I'll just admit right up front that both of them turned faster laps than I did, primarily because both of them have at least an 80-pound weight advantage on me.

In our conversations afterwards, my brother indicated that he prefers the Honda-engined indoor karts we drive in the Midwest to the electric karts at Pole Position. "There's no penalty for completely blowing a corner," he noted. "If you understeer past the apex, the minute you unwind the steering there's full power available from the engine. Back home, the karts work like real cars; if you can't keep the revs up, you're dead." I'd noticed the same thing during our laps, and had used the instant torque of the electric karts to bail myself out of some really terrible lines while I was learning the course.

That was still on my mind as I walked out to the parking lot and hopped on my rental motorcycle. It was an Indian Chieftain, powered by a monstrous 1800cc V-Twin engine that makes about the same power as my Honda CB1100. The difference is that the Chieftain makes all that power before the tach reaches 5000 rpm, and it has enough torque to idle off the line in second gear without twisting the throttle at all. The CB1100, by contrast, revs to 8500. My VFR800, which I enjoy thrashing even more, doesn't make that much more power than either of the other bikes but it redlines at 12,000.

It's a real thrill to give the Chieftain full throttle on the open boulevard; it makes an absolutely savage noise, bellowing like a big-block Chevy as the massive bike leaps forward. Just like a GM "rat motor", however, it runs out of breath as the tach twists around the dial and the best strategy is to short-shift it and ride the torque wave. My Hondas, on the other hand, pick up a sort of insane momentum as the revolutions build, encouraging me to run to within a hair's-width of the limiter before shifting and starting the rush all over again.

SHOW ME AN ENGINE THAT CAN THREATEN THE FIVE-FIGURE MARK ON A TACHOMETER, AND I WILL SHOW YOU AN ENGINE WITH A SOUL.


They say that torque wins races, and as a racer I believe it, but it does not speak to me the way a high-strung, high-rev engine does. The beauty of gasoline as a fuel is that it is volatile enough to permit spectacular piston and crankshaft speeds. The very best passenger-car engines are all stratospheric revvers, whether we're discussing the first-gen Honda S2000 or the last-generation Ferrari 458 Speciale. Both of them could rev to the proverbial limit, (just) over nine thousand. My favorite Corvette, the C6 Z06, manages to spin its seven-liter mill all the way to seven grand. Show me an engine that can threaten the five-figure mark on a tachometer, and I will show you an engine with a soul.

Sadly, the best days of free-revving passenger-car engines are behind us. I suppose it is reasonable that truculent little two-liter turbo four-cylinders have clattered and lugged their way into the family-car engine bays that once held surprisingly delightful six-pots. They're cheaper, and they meet emissions standards, and they weigh less and they work well with automatic transmissions. What excuse is there, then, for the rapidity with which the weak beer of forced induction is replacing the grand cuvee of impressively distant redlines in supposedly "exotic" automobiles? Go drive the 458 Speciale and the 488 GTB back to back. Yes, the new car is faster, and it's very good, but the Speciale had a way of wrapping forged-steel fingers around your amygdalae and squeezing tight.

The electric motor, whether it be DC brushless as in the Prius or AC induction as it is in Teslas, is strongest at low revs. The faster it spins, the more friction and other factors combine to rob it of its mojo. Fearsomely puissant at rest, the performance-oriented electric car becomes feckless and overheated at high revs, its anodyne whine worrisome in precisely the same measure that the unfettered aria of a flat-crank Ferrari V8 inspires a sort of depraved sensuality in all but the most disinterested of men.

As a device for motivating mere transportation, the electric motor is perfectly fine. For that reason, the battery-powered car will become ubiquitous the moment that someone properly solves the so-called "range anxiety" issue. The automotive media, most of whom are no more likely to get the most out of a Ferrari 458 Speciale at a full song than I am to flawlessly perform the solo from "Giant Steps" on a Selmer MarkVI, will dutifully repeat all the platitudes about instant torque and 0-60 times. We will all be told that electric performance cars are wonderful things.

Don't believe it. Your heart and soul know the truth. Something important will be lost the day that the last fast-spinning gasoline engine leaves the showroom. There is music in the royal roar of the supercar or sportbike that cannot be duplicated by stators and inverters. Music, and spirit. The electric motor might start off strongly, but a brilliant gasoline engine, like a brilliant story, doesn't start off with a bang and then trickle out to irrelevance. It encourages you to keep your foot down, to hold out for that rush to the corner exit or the finish line, in the certain knowledge that the best is yet to come.

Electric Torque Is No Replacement for a High-Revving Engine

I love this quote:
"Fearsomely puissant at rest, the performance-oriented electric car becomes feckless and overheated at high revs, its anodyne whine worrisome in precisely the same measure that the unfettered aria of a flat-crank Ferrari V8 inspires a sort of depraved sensuality in all but the most disinterested of men."

and, love this quote, and for the TLDR viewers:

"The electric motor might start off strongly, but a brilliant gasoline engine, like a brilliant story, doesn't start off with a bang and then trickle out to irrelevance. It encourages you to keep your foot down, to hold out for that rush to the corner exit or the finish line, in the certain knowledge that the best is yet to come. "

Agreed to an extent.

There is no replacement for the high-revving feeling (and sound) of a naturally-aspirated car as it nears 9,000RPM.

This is coming from my test driving a Tesla Model S, test driving numerous turbo, supercharged, and naturally-aspirated cars (including the 2016 R8 - passenger only in October, 2015 - http://www.revscene.net/forums/57451...ml#post8686399), owning a supercharged car and a turbocharged car and previously owned 3 naturally aspirated cars.

What do you guys think of the article and the battle among electric, turbocharged, supercharged, and naturally aspirated cars?

[Presto]

I think electric is still in it's early days. All the downsides will be resolved in time, and I can see it toppling combustion vehicles, eventually.

[trollguy]

Originally Posted by Marshall Placid

and, love this quote, and for the TLDR viewers:

"The electric motor might start off strongly, but a brilliant gasoline engine, like a brilliant story, doesn't start off with a bang and then trickle out to irrelevance. It encourages you to keep your foot down, to hold out for that rush to the corner exit or the finish line, in the certain knowledge that the best is yet to come. "

sounds kinky

[smoothie.]

I race rc cars.

We have electric brushless motors in cars that reach 110km/h in only 3 seconds, and we have 40,000 rpm nitro powered single piston engines that take 4-5.

The nitro cars are what brings people in, because nothing replaces the screaming engines and the exhaust cloud shooting out of them.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by smoothie.

I race rc cars.

We have electric brushless motors in cars that reach 110km/h in only 3 seconds, and we have 40,000 rpm nitro powered single piston engines that take 4-5.

The nitro cars are what brings people in, because nothing replaces the screaming engines and the exhaust cloud shooting out of them.

Bought a Revo 3.3 awhile back in order to get back into the hobby.

Went for the Nitro motor only because of the smell and the sound, fire that thing up and nobody is going to mess around and tell you your playing with a kids toy.

Unfortunately playing around with a buddies electric brushless truck for a bit converted me real quick. No more tuning, no more carting around fuel, no more worrying about not having new fuel or water in it, etc.

Just buy a bunch of batteries and charge them the night before.

[bomberR17]

Originally Posted by smoothie.

I race rc cars.

We have electric brushless motors in cars that reach 110km/h in only 3 seconds, and we have 40,000 rpm nitro powered single piston engines that take 4-5.

The nitro cars are what brings people in, because nothing replaces the screaming engines and the exhaust cloud shooting out of them.

That sounds cool. I never thought electric brush motors can power rc cars.