Vancouver Honda experience
 

Hey RS,

I wanted to share with you my crappy used car buying experience with Vancouver Honda and hope at least one of you will learn from my mistakes. I found out about this car from the good buys thread…..well it most certainly did not turn out to be a good buy.

Sunday December 6, 2015
I see a 2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STi (“the car”) for the first time. I meet a sales associate. I also meet the sales manager on duty (let’s call him sales manager 1 because there were 2 I dealt with). I am told that the car cannot be sold today because the car was just traded in and by law, the car needs to pass a safety inspection prior to sale. While I was inspecting the car in their parking lot, I noticed the trunk did not stay open by itself and needed to be held open. I also noticed that there are signs of a leaking power steering pump because the pump was covered in oil as shown in the picture below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...C5/TopView.jpg

I asked both the sales associate and sales manager 1, individually at different times of this visit, what the safety inspection inspects and neither of them could give me a definitive answer. Both of them told me that it is a very basic inspection that checks areas such as brakes and tires. I asked the sales associate, “Is the trunk part of the inspection?” He answered “no” and reiterated that it is a basic inspection and the trunk has nothing to do with the safety of the car. I then asked the sales associate, “Is the power steering pump part of the inspection?” He answered “no.” While talking to sales manager 1 I asked if I could see a blank sheet of the safety inspection so I can get an idea of what will be inspected, but was denied. By the end of this day, an Offer to Purchase and a Deposit Agreement is signed. I give a $1,000.00 deposit. I leave the dealership with a copy of the Offer to Purchase, Deposit Agreement, and Carproof history report.

Tuesday December 8, 2015
The safety inspection by Vancouver Honda is complete. I am informed that the car is ready for pick up. The Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement, ICBC Tax Transfer Form is signed. The remaining balance is paid. I leave the dealership with a copy of Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement, ICBC Tax Transfer Form, details of powertrain warranty, a binder of service history records from a local Subaru dealership, owner’s manual and safety inspection invoice. The car at this point has 261,974 kms. I leave the dealership at approximately 6:00 pm.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../08dec15p1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../08dec15p2.jpg

In the safety inspection invoice above, you will notice that there is no acknowledgement that the power steering system was ever inspected. During their multi point inspection, they only assessed lights, battery, filters, antifreeze, tires and brakes.

Wednesday December 9, 2015
Approximately 12 hrs after leaving the dealership, the check engine light and the cruise control light is on. At this point I have driven the car approximately 43 kms (262,017 kms on the odometer). I inform sales manager 1, who redirects me to the used car sales manager, let’s call him sales manager 2. Sales manager 2 then directs me to the service department to make an appointment. The earliest appointment available was the next day at 11:00am

Thursday December 10, 2015
(262,050 kms) Car is dropped off at Vancouver Honda to the service worker (“P”), who I assumed was the service advisor. I asked P for clarification on what it meant on the inspection invoice that “lights are okay” and his response is that the exterior lights are in working order. I inform him that the night I bought the car, one of the lights in the rear were not working. I also asked for clarification on the 5W20 oil that was used in the oil change because the oil cap is stamped 5W30.

Friday December 11, 2015
I am informed that the check engine light is for a misfire and that the repairs are being outsourced to a nearby Subaru. Subaru will need the car until Monday.

Monday December 14, 2015
(262,063 kms)Went to pick up car from Honda at approximately 3:30pm. P informs me that the rear light bulb has been replaced and that the Honda technician says the 5W20 is ok to put into my high mileage car. Upon starting the car, the check engine light and cruise control light are still present before I drive away. P calls Subaru to inform them of the check engine light. I drive the car to Subaru to have the light reset, then left Subaru with the car.

Wednesday December 16, 2015
(262,203 kms)Around 4pm, I’m dropping off my car at Honda because the check engine light and cruise control light have come back on.

Tuesday December 29, 2015
(262,244 kms)I pick up the car from Honda around 3pm. Instructed by P to drive the car for a few days, then report to him on Thursday.

Thursday December 31, 2015
Inform P that the check engine light and cruise control light have not returned; however, I am noticing a noisy power steering pump as well as large amounts of oil on the power steering rack. I was instructed by P to continue driving the car. Below, is a photo of the oil on the power steering rack.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...230_150610.jpg

Friday January 1, 2016
(262, 517 kms)When trying to pull out from my parking spot, the power steering pump is even louder than before and the steering wheel begins to shake while being turned. Couldn’t inform P at this time as he is not back until Monday.

Monday January 4, 2016
I inform P of loud power steering pump and shaking steering wheel. P and I try to contact Subaru to schedule an appointment to access my problems but were unsuccessful at contacting Subaru.

Tuesday January 5, 2016
P and I continue to try and contact the service manager at Subaru, the one who has been working with my car while it’s at Subaru, but are still unsuccessful.

Wednesday January 6, 2016
Subaru service manager leaves me a voicemail at 7:46am

(262, 571 kms)I bring my car to Subaru and wait for my car to be accessed by a technician. I’m informed by the service manager that the work done to the car to address the check engine light and cruise control light required removal of the power steering pump belt. The belt tension is now correct. A leak in the power steering pump is confirmed and the oil on the power steering rack was diagnosed as engine oil coming from another source and not the power steering rack. Subaru recommended replacing the power steering pump to address the leak, and if the shaking steering wheel persists, then the power steering rack may need to be replaced too. The service manager looked in their service records and found that on June 30, 2014 at 228,065 kms, the car was low on power steering fluid and was topped up. There is also a note on the Invoice stating that there may be a possible steering rack leak. Since June 30, 2014, the car, which was serviced by this same Subaru dealership, did not have any components of the power steering system replaced, but did have fluids continuously topped up. According to the service manager, based on this information, it is likely that the power steering pump is the source of low power steering fluid and has been leaking ever since June 30, 2014.

I leave Subaru, and go straight to Honda to speak with sales manager 1 to inform him about my visit to Subaru and that I want the power steering pump replaced. Sale manager 1 says that he’s not the right person to speak to and said that the one who I have been dealing with in the service department is the best person. After I tell him it is P, sale manager 1 informs me that P is the best person to be deal with in the service department because P is the service manager on duty while the regular one is on a 5 week vacation.
I speak with P to inform him about my visit to Subaru and that I want the leak fixed because it should have been done prior to my purchase. He tells me that he will discuss it with the manager tomorrow as they are not in today. He told me that I would receive a call from either himself or the manager tomorrow.

Thursday January 7, 2016 1:00 pm – 1:45 pm
I get a call from P. P has spoken with Vancouver Honda’s general manager (“the GM”), who refuses to do anything to resolve the issue. He has spoken to the service manager at Subaru, to get his input on the issue. P still needs to speak with sales manager 2.

Thursday January 7, 2016 4:15pm – 4:28pm
P calls to inform me that he has spoken to sales manager about 30 minutes ago, and he will not do anything to resolve the issue.
I then ask P to transfer me to sales manager 2.
Sales manager 2 states that it’s a normal wear and tear item. He feels that Honda has done everything they can. He confirmed that he is aware that power steering fluid is leaking. He reiterates that according to Honda technician’s safety inspection, which has its standards set out by the MVA, the car has passed. He states that the leak is not a safety concern or else Honda would have fixed it. He offered to try and work with Subaru to get the repairs done at a discounted rate, but refuses to repair the car at Honda’s expense.

Summary thus far
Over the past 31 days, the car has been driven 597 kilometers between myself and the dealership. The car has been at the dealership, whether it was Honda or Subaru, for 17 days in that time to address the check engine light that reappeared after an attempt to fix it during the safety inspection prior to the purchase.
I get the car back from repair of the check engine light on December 29th. Prior to this point, the car has been in my possession for 4 days, the dealership’s for 17 days and the car was driven for a total of 270 kilometers. I noticed oil on the power steering rack on December 30th. I inform P on December 31st and work with him to get Subaru to assess the leak. It isn’t until January 6th that Subaru assess the power steering pump is leaking. The car has been serviced by Subaru since brand new, so they were able to find in their data base that on June 30, 2014, 34,506 kilometers ago, that the power steering fluid was low and required a top up. Since that time and now, there are no records of repairs being done to the power steering system; however, for each service, fluids were topped up. There are also no records of diagnosing where power steering fluid was being lost until January 6, 2016.
I approach P at Honda about the leak and request the leak be fixed because I feel it should not have passed the safety inspection due to this active leakage prior to the purchase. P informs me that after speaking to Subaru service manager, the GM and sales manager 2, Honda will not be paying for repairs of the power steering system.

Picture below is of the car’s oil soaked power steering rack. According to Subaru the oil is from the turbo and the right hand side valve cover. Photo taken on December 30, 2015.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...230_150610.jpg

Picture below is the oil residue on my driveway after parking it overnight. Photo taken on January 7, 2016.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...727800x450.jpg

Picture below is of the oil soaked power steering pump that is actively leaking, outlined in red. On December 6, 2015 when I saw the car for the first time, the pump looked very similar to this, but now it has more fresh oil on top of the old oil. Photo taken on January 7, 2016.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...814800x450.jpg

Friday January 8, 2016
I submit a formal complaint to the Vehicle Sales Authority of British Columbia (VSA).

Between January 8 to April 5, 2016
Three months of back and forth communication between myself and the GM of Vancouver Honda that’s facilitated by R of VSA. During this period of time, the car was driven minimally as a loud power steering pump and shaking steering wheel during turns did not feel safe to me. I also had a Red Seal Technician from Jonker Honda assess the car. As shown below, there are multiple items that requires immediate attention. The power steering fluid level, engine oil and/or fluid leaks, and steering gearbox components all needed immediate attention the rack and pump were both leaking. Furthermore, the invoice states that “Leak appears to have started more than 1,500 kms ago based on debris (dirt) contamination.” At this point, I have owned the car for 1,297 kms.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../06Feb16p1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7.../06Feb16p2.jpg

The end result, which I am extremely displeased with, is a cheque for $250.00 as a resolution to my complaint. I was seeking payment of $1068.47 which would be the bare minimum cost of replacing the power steering pump at Wolfe Subaru. When Wolfe Subaru gave me the quote, they said that if there were more parts that needed replacing then the cost of repair would increase.

In conclusion, my experience in dealing with Vancouver Honda was horrible for the following reasons.

1) I was given misinform in regards to the power steering pump being part of a safety inspection. The sales associate and sales manager 1 had extreme lack of knowledge of the product in which they are selling. In the Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement, it states, “Is the Vehicle suitable for transportation in compliance with the Motor Vehicle Act?” and “Yes” is check marked. I feel that it would have been appropriate to address my concern about the safety inspection by telling me that the car I will be purchasing will meet Motor Vehicle Act (MVA). If one were to look at the MVA, they would find that there is a section titled “Steering mechanism”, which includes clauses on the power steering system.

2) I was given an inspection report that does not acknowledge the assessment of the steering mechanism when there is a specific section in the MVA for it. How can a car comply with MVA if the power steering system is not inspected?

3) 5W20 was put into the engine when the oil cap is clearly stamped 5W30. It was also confirmed by the Subaru service manager that the car takes 5W30, not 5W20.

4) Whoever checked the lights missed one that was not working.

5) I was also not given the curiosity of being informed about the amount of leaks that the car had prior to my purchase. Had I known about the leaks and the large extent to which it is leaking, I would not have purchased the car. The power steering pump is like 2 feet away from the oil fill tube and is clearly visible without removing any plastic covers. The power steering rack is like 1 foot away from the oil drain plug and the entire cross member was covered in a thick layer of oil. Do they look at the clock on the wall instead of the car as the oil is draining out because a leaky mess is right in front of their face.

6) I feel that the actions of Vancouver Honda in regards to the steering mechanism and the portrayal of the car they are selling was dishonest.

7) I was also given conflicting information when sales manager 1 tells me that P is the service manager on duty and would be able to help me, but when speaking to P, he does nothing but tell me that he needs to speak with a manager. Where’s the accountability?

Here’s what I’ve learned from this and I hope at least one of you won’t make the same mistakes I did.

1) Don’t let your love for the car cloud your judgment! This was huge in leading to my other mistakes. I was looking for an STi for years, checking every day much like some of you who look for S2K’s, ITR’S, M3’s etc.

2) Bring a friend who will help you in the process, whether it’s to find problems or to remind you of things you should be checking.

3) Private inspection! Bring it to someone you trust to do a pre purchase inspection. If the seller refuses, then walk away. If you’re scared that someone else will buy it before you can inspect it, then just walk away.

4) Do your homework! I was buying from a licensed dealer, I should have known BEFORE I went to see the car that buying from them means I’m getting a car that meets MVA.

5) Don’t trust the salesperson(s) or seller(s)! Confirm everything yourself! I put too much trust in a big name, licensed dealership and now I’m regretting it big time.

How much did you pay for an STi with 262km? WutFace

I'm curious because you still bought the car after you noticed the issues that cause your displeasure. You saw the excess power steering fluid and you still bought the car. Did you need confirmation? You, yourself saw the excess fluid!!

Now you want them to fix the car AFTER you bought it?!
Before buying, you asked for a trunk inspection. They said no. You asked for a power steering pump inspection. They said no.

YOU STILL PUT DOWN A DEPOSIT?! :seriously:

Thanks for sharing your story, great lesson to share among-st us
Hope everything worked out.

refer to mistake #1 :)

1) Don’t let your love for the car cloud your judgment!

Agreed. Don't let your love of the car cloud your judgement. :nicethread:

So how do you blame Vancouver Honda? They just sold you a car that you wanted. You saw the problems and still wanted the car. I'm fairly confident that the sales manager nor any member of his team held a gun to your head and forced you to buy this STi. Instead, you basically forced them to sell you the piece of shit STi by putting the deposit down.

Blame yourself, not the dealer. PJSalt

I stopped reading it here. I have absolutely no idea, given their attitude and behavior prior to this, that you somehow were still interested in buying such a high mileage car.

Thanks for taking the time to read my experience, but I was blaming myself. At least those were my intentions.

First line of your rant says "Crappy used car buying experience with Vancouver Honda"
Thread title: Vancouver Honda experience.

Ya. Totally blaming yourself... :thumbsup:

disclaimer: I don't work for Vancouver Honda. But I am a Honda Fan boy. PogChamp

jesus. i didnt know it had THAT much mileage.

for the love of the car though, we've all been there.

hope its all good now?

Looks like he replaced the pump already

http://www.revscene.net/forums/66659...ml#post8753406

Sorry to hear about your ordeal.

#1 should be, "Just because it's in the CL good buys thread doesn't mean it's a good buy."

I don't understand... You saw the pump leaking, asked them if they check it on inspection, they said no... So you buy the car and then get mad about it leaking?

How is this Vancouver Honda's fault? I hate dealerships as much as anyone but man... you can't blame other people for your own stupidity.

who was the sales managers and sales person you were dealing with?

You should post this onto their google reviews to warn others of your experience !

Was this a certified used vehicle or a wholesale unit?

THIS. Sweet jesus. You noticed it was leaking, you then confirmed that they would not look at it for the inspection, then you are surprised that somehow magic fairies in the night did not fix it?!?

Mark

sounds like a wholesale unit.. would've cost too much to certify it anyways..

Too much to read...it bored me 1/4 of the way through. So how much did you get it and how much did you spend fixing it?

A good buy largely depends on how much you have spent in total after fixing everything and comparing it to what you can get for a clean car.

Thats the reason why CPOs are more expensive, but your ass is covered.

I recently bought a 50k bmw from a Mitsu dealer, same story, somebody traded in and dealer tried to do a quick flip.
The car went through its "thorough" inspections with flying colors from the Mitsu dealership
As i drove it off the lot, i noticed AC isn't blowing, went to the sale guy at Mitsu, gave me a story about how it was working before. I knew this isn't gonna go anywhere and i'm just wasting my time.
Fortunately my car is still under original BMW bumper warranty.
Took it there, BMW found more problems in the engine leaking oil etc.
I could of pay couple more Gs to get a cpo from Autowest or BJ, but you get what you pay for and it is the truth!

This is exactly why my dealership wholesales high mileage units regardless of make or model. I feel bad for you but honestly a STI with 260km? I surprised that's all that's wrong with it. Good luck with everything.

If I were trying to blame or trash Vancouver Honda I think there are many titles and things I could have said that would be much more effective.
Interpret my title and first line however you want, but you now know your original interpretation do not line up with my intentions.

The pump has been replaced, but if the shaking steering wheel persists, I'll need to replace the rack too. I haven't ran the car after putting the pump in yet, so I don't know.

Thanks. Usually RSers are pretty good at giving each other heads up on the lemons that pop up in that thread.

SIGNS of leaking and IS leaking are two different things. I saw an sti that was being privately sold, that pump looked much worse than the one I showed a picture of. The seller said it doesn't leak anymore because the O-rings were changed, but he was too lazy to clean up the mess.
So I saw it had SIGNS of leaking, but didn't know for sure until after I had purchased the car. I forget exactly which day, but at the end of December I popped the hood while the car was idling and saw oil coming out from the pump. That is when I knew it was leaking. I probably should have looked at the pump while the car was running the first day i saw it, but hindsight is 20/20. I only saw it when the car was off that day.

This isn't about Honda, so I'm not posting this anywhere else. Nor am I going to give out Honda worker's names. Sorry

Neither. Just a regular used vehicle that's suitable for transportation
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/SSM_DC5/MVPA.jpg

I saw SIGNS of leaking before buying. I didn't know it WAS leaking.
I'm not really sure where translation is lost, but it seems to be that way for more than 1 person, so I went wrong somewhere.
Sure they confirmed that they would not be looking at it for the inspection, but if they were following the law and MVA appropriately, then should they have? I think so. Speaking with tech's in the industry, they would have inspected the power steering system and at least noted the leak so both the dealer and the buyer know what they're getting into. Working in good faith? Being honest? Trying to keep the roads safe? Looking at such a low car on their lot doesn't really allow me to get any sort of assessment on what it looks like underneath the car and to make it even harder, STI's have a splash tray so anything in the area of the oil pan, you can't see unless you remove the tray.
Going back to what I said about doing my homework. I should have done my homework to find out that buying a used car suitable for transportation from a license dealer means that I'm getting a car that meets MVA. Then I should have looked at the MVA to see what's in it. It was only after the purchase was made that I found out MVA is supposed to be the standard for license dealers.
People go to dealers and pay a higher price compared to private because there's a certain expectation from a dealer. My expectation is that they follow whatever rules that are set out by the licensing authority and that I don't get a lemon. Well I got a lemon and I hope that once I'm done squeezing it dry, I'll be happy. Oh and just so there is no confusion. The lemon is my car, and squeezing it dry means me throwing parts at it until it runs right.

Definitely not a wholesale unit. A used car suitable for transportation.

At least read my 5 mistakes listed at the end.
Most definitely not a good buy considering the money I've spent so far.

I fucked a prostitute once. She had cold sores all over her mouth, the sign of herpes. But c'mon, signs of herpes is different than actual herpes. I didn't know she actually HAD herpes. She just had the SIGNS of a girl with herpes. So I fucked her anyway.

True Story. :cool:

Sorry to hear about your BMW. My friend bought a CPO BMW from one of the local BMW dealers and the car didn't turn out so good. However, the dealer did help my friend get out of that CPO.

This particular STI would have been wholesaled, but it had a fat stack of service invoices from a Subaru dealership, so Honda wanted to sell it the public. There's probably more things wrong with it, i just haven't found them all yet. I'm actually still chasing leaks right now. Possibly the rear main crank seal because I've gotten by eyes on pretty much everywhere else and it's pretty dry or I've already changed the seal.

You're not in the medical field are you....:suspicious:

I'm surprised they even tried to help you out with 260k+kms. You bought a high mileage/ high maintenance car with known issues, It's your problem now.

Wait, what's wrong with Vancouver Honda? I bought a Civic from them and it was pleasant experience. Can't be worse than Richmond Honda? Although they are all pretty arrogant.