Review (and possibly proposed changes) to ICBC Collector Motor Vehicle Program

[Traum]

This is not something of my own doing, but has been brought to my attention through a friend on Facebook. Since his blurb is well-written and already mirrors many of my thoughts quite closely, I am not going to re-invent the wheel, and will just quote him here:

It has come to my attention that recently ICBC has started a survey to ask the public what they think they should do about the existing collector's vehicle program.

As it stands the collector programs allow 25 years or older vehicles in exceptional original quality to receive recognition and be operated on public roads with reduced insurance premiums while insured against 3rd party claims in the same capacity as a regular insurance. The vehicle has to be used for pleasure (intended for going to and from car shows, repair shops, and such) and the owner is required to own or lease another vehicle as well to qualify. A lot of other nuances in the application process, so best you refer to the site linked.

Now they have put up a survey where ICBC seems to be looking to push the age of eligibility to 30, and Vintage autos to 35 or even 40 years old. The current rules and regulations apply to collector cars of 1991 or older, and vintage cars of 1986 or older, but with the extended age eligibility it will be collectible in 1986, vintage in 1981 or even 1976 should the rules be changed. They also seem to intend to eliminate the “Limited Production collector vehicle” rule.

I feel that the collectible program is good at conserving cars of a certain vintage that looks and feels very different from modern cars to satisfy the need to preserve them for future generations to see....these car are not necessarily rare but different enough from modern counterpart so it's worthy of keeping. 25 years ago cars practically were built the same as cars now de-facto, except for crash standards, fuel economy and electronic gadgets if you look at the tangible measures, yet they also drive very differently...I do not think by any stretch of the imagination any car enthusiasts would argue that it feels the same driving a EF civic hatch versus a 2017 civic hatch, or driving a 1991 Miata is the same as driving a 2016 Miata. There is no doubt a 1991 Skyline GTR is collectible and historical; not to mention it delivers a completely different driving experience from a modern Nissan GTR. A 1990 BMW M3 is definitely one of those specialty vehicles that deserve respect, and it deserves it now not 5 years later. I also believe a 1997 Subaru Impreza 22B is limited enough that it warrants special treatment from ICBC in treating these vehicles with the same historical significance as any limited production vehicle under any other circumstances.

ICBC and SVA (Specialty Vehicles Association) worked closely in the past to bring us the collector’s and vintage programs. For the love of iconic Japanese and European sports cars that are turning collectible, more so than any decades before, we should show ICBC how we love our future classics and the collectible car community cares. As there is no collective car club for European and Japanese car enthusiasts, I implore you to take the survey and spread the words to any car enthusiast communities in BC or otherwise so everyone has a say in the matter, regardless of the origin of the vehicles. This affects you and me, and any enthusiasts that are to come.

Like, Share, and most importantly take the survey by August 29th!

ICBC Collector Motor Vehicle Program Review Survey

[Traum]

As an enthusiast, I personally do not see any reasons or advantages in any of the proposed changes to make it harder (ie. takes longer) for someone to collector / vintage plate an older vehicle. IMO, 25 years is already a pretty good age. Increasing that to anything longer would only make it more difficult for people to keep and preserve these cars, so it is against the intentions of the Collector / Vintage program to preserve automotive history in the first place.

[Timpo]

I don't care about collectors plate.

It's only good for going to car show or taking your car in for maintenance.
I don't think you're even allowed to go shopping with that plate.
You can't even change rims or get a coilover...or put better sound system.

On the other hand, Transport Canada is trying to push 25 year importation law instead of 15.
That should be decreased to 10 or even 5. Thank you very much.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehicl...-index-448.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_i...vehicle#Canada
"In March 2007, Transport Canada initiated proposed rulemaking to change the importation laws such that vehicles not originally manufactured to Canadian-market specifications would be eligible for import only once they are 25 years old, rather than the present 15-year cutoff rule."

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by Traum

As an enthusiast, I personally do not see any reasons or advantages in any of the proposed changes to make it harder (ie. takes longer) for someone to collector / vintage plate an older vehicle. IMO, 25 years is already a pretty good age. Increasing that to anything longer would only make it more difficult for people to keep and preserve these cars, so it is against the intentions of the Collector / Vintage program to preserve automotive history in the first place.

Ok but you as a car enthusiast, what 25+year old car would you keep stock though?
If you get a first gen Civic or Corolla, I'm sure you would do some kind of custom rebuild or restoration with some updated goodies.
Same as if you get European or American cars.

The only reason I could see somebody might wanna keep their car stock is maybe something like Ferrari 250 GTO where historical value is so high, just so that you won't hurt resale value.

[Traum]

Timpo, if you don't care about collector plates, I dunno why you would even bother commenting in the thread.

Also, don't be so single-minded with your approach to "car enthusiasts". Enthusiasm comes in many forms and shapes, and the older I get, the more I appreciate this diversity. My automotive enthusiasm very much comes with a high performance flavour, so many of my cars tend to get modified one way or another. But that doesn't mean I have to disapprove of other enthusiasts' preferences. I personally do not understand the draw of the Stance Nation crowd, but if they enjoy what they are doing, who am I to judge them for how they want to tweak their cars?

Given the chance, I would absolutely love to have and collector plate a bone stock ITR. I know that one isn't legal for collector status yet, but if I could somehow afford (and find) it, it is certainly what I would love to do. Another idea is a bone stock NA Miata of some sort. This one is totally attainable, and is already valid for collector status.

You are failing to understand that an enthusiast can choose to keep a car stock. Especially when I already have a nicely and mildly modified car, why would I have to modify an everyday classic vehicle? Or maybe I'm hitting my midlife crisis, and that I just want the same car I had in hs to re-live my youth?

Learn to appreciate diversity a little. You might even grow wiser and more mature as a result.

[TouringTeg]

Thanks for posting this. I will fill out the survey.

I am an owner of a stock 2001 CDM ITR. I have owned plenty of modified plenty of cars but this car is fantastic in stock form. I am restoring it to OEM stock over time. My plan is to continue to collect parts to restore the body in a few years. I have a replacement OEM fender and side mirror (aftermarket fender and cracked mirror) and still need OEM Type R stickers, windshield mouldings and side window mouldings.

Yes you can do some modifications and still receive collector plates. Example: wheels that are period correct and up to 1" larger in diameter.

http://www.icbc.com/vehicle-registra...tus.pdf#page=4

[SkunkWorks]

Originally Posted by Timpo

I don't care about collectors plate.

It's only good for going to car show or taking your car in for maintenance.
I don't think you're even allowed to go shopping with that plate.
You can't even change rims or get a coilover...or put better sound system.

If you don't know wtf you're talking about, then don't say anything at all.

You can't drive a collector plated car to work. Everything else is fair game - even driving it to the grocery store.

And as TouringTeg mentioned above, certain period correct and safety modifications are allowed.

[Prostrho]

Timpo got confused with Vintage plates and collectors plate.

Vintage plate is the one where you are only allowed to drive on special occasions or to repairs.

Collectors plate are for any pleasure use. Just cant be used for going to work/school.

[Zordon]

Just a quick note, the upcoming changes to the collector program in 2017 involves the modified collector program up to 1974. This means that you would be able to modify your car I.e power train, suspension, brakes, appearance.

As someone else has pointed out already, you would be able to use your car for pleasure use. Another advantage of a modified collector is being able to protect your vehicle for the appraised value or declared value.

I personally would want them to raise it to the mid 90s but maybe in another 20 years.

[Great68]

The program is fucked.

This can get collector plates:


But this (I) can't:


I don't actually want collector plates because I want to drive the car to work, but even if I did I couldn't. I welcome any changes that actually make the program reasonable and make sense.

[smoothie.]

icbc always trying to make more money

[Traum]

Originally Posted by smoothie.

icbc always trying to make more money

You know, the only semi-plausible explanation I can think of that could spur the proposed changes (of increasing the vehicle age requirement) is it might make ICBC a little more money. But that line of thinking is so absurd and completely against the "official stance" of preserving automotive history. If I have a decent condition 23 year old car (say, NA Miata), I might find it worthwhile to gradually restore it back to "exceptional OEM state" over 2 years, after which it'll qualify for collector plate. But if the requirement becomes 30 years, I might as well just ditch the car and purchase something else (or abandon the plans altogether) because 7 years is a really long wait. So the net result is, there'll be fewer collector vehicles, and the automotive history preservation goal will fail.

[604STIG]

The only proposed change i agreed with in that survey was to allow a 3rd party (body shop or what have you) to verify quality of vehicle for collector status application.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by 604STIG

The only proposed change i agreed with in that survey was to allow a 3rd party (body shop or what have you) to verify quality of vehicle for collector status application.

And even then, it should only be an option (which is what the survey wording says), instead of a mandatory thing.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by Traum

You know, the only semi-plausible explanation I can think of that could spur the proposed changes (of increasing the vehicle age requirement) is it might make ICBC a little more money. But that line of thinking is so absurd and completely against the "official stance" of preserving automotive history. If I have a decent condition 23 year old car (say, NA Miata), I might find it worthwhile to gradually restore it back to "exceptional OEM state" over 2 years, after which it'll qualify for collector plate. But if the requirement becomes 30 years, I might as well just ditch the car and purchase something else (or abandon the plans altogether) because 7 years is a really long wait. So the net result is, there'll be fewer collector vehicles, and the automotive history preservation goal will fail.

How cheap is collector plate though?

Does it actually deter you from building your Miata project?

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by Great68

The program is fucked.

This can get collector plates:

Spoiler!

But this (I) can't:

Spoiler!

I don't actually want collector plates because I want to drive the car to work, but even if I did I couldn't. I welcome any changes that actually make the program reasonable and make sense.

Maybe the Mustang owner wanted to drive it on daily basis. Whereas truck driver just wanted to keep the truck in his garage. Who knows.
I guess the Mustang owner really wanted to keep his aftermarket(I think?) wheels?

[BoostedBB6]

I think the concept of the program is good, but in the end a high value car should not be allowed to insure for a low value rate. All the translates to is when it is involved in an accident the rest of the "regular" drivers foot the bill to repair. That I do no agree with. I don't need any more reasons for my insurance rates to go up. I have the max discount I can get and still pay out the nose to insure my cars.

Edit: I do believe truly collectable and limited run cars should receive some sort of special treatment as long as they are driven within the guidelines of the insurance. However this time of year I see a very large number of people with collectors plates using them for not so "pleasurable" uses like commuting to work 5 days a week....every day.....for the past 2 months.

[hud 91gt]

Personally the only think that irks my chain is the modified classic. It's been stuck at pre 1958 since who knows when, meanwhile the 25 year rule changes every year. There are so many gorgeous cars from the 60-70's that are on the road that can't be collector plated due to their modified status. One day I'd love to get collector plates on my car,but right now it's not happening.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

I think the concept of the program is good, but in the end a high value car should not be allowed to insure for a low value rate. All the translates to is when it is involved in an accident the rest of the "regular" drivers foot the bill to repair. That I do no agree with. I don't need any more reasons for my insurance rates to go up. I have the max discount I can get and still pay out the nose to insure my cars.

You're an idiot. This is no different than someone registering their "regular" car for "Pleasure use only" and paying a lower premium based on that.

However this time of year I see a very large number of people with collectors plates using them for not so "pleasurable" uses like commuting to work 5 days a week....every day.....for the past 2 months.

Should those people get in a collision and ICBC finds out they were using their cars for commuting to work (Which they will, It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together) ICBC will deny them insurance coverage.

[BoostedBB6]

Originally Posted by Great68

You're an idiot. This is no different than someone registering their "regular" car for "Pleasure use only" and paying a lower premium based on that.



Should those people get in a collision and ICBC finds out they were using their cars for commuting to work (Which they will, It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together) ICBC will deny them insurance coverage.

Im the idiot for voicing my opinion?
Eat a bag of dicks there buds!

There is a difference. The rates for a far more valuable car (collectors car) are less than Jane's 91 Corolla (regular Joe with pleasure only insurance) are vastly different.

As for a collision, prove that they did not use one of the allotted days to make that commute. Unless there is someone constantly monitoring them they are fully insured operating a vehicle for far less than anyone else.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

As for a collision, prove that they did not use one of the allotted days to make that commute. Unless there is someone constantly monitoring them they are fully insured operating a vehicle for far less than anyone else.

I don't think Collector Plate cars are allowed any use for going to/from work at all. A pleasure use vehicle has that allotment, and it is allowed 6 days per month to use it for work.

[Manic!]

They should scrap the Collector Motor Vehicle Program and allow one plate for multiple cars. I would like to own a couple of more cars but having to insure a car that I am barley going to drive is stupid.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Manic!

They should scrap the Collector Motor Vehicle Program and allow one plate for multiple cars. I would like to own a couple of more cars but having to insure a car that I am barley going to drive is stupid.

I know what you're getting at, and in theory, I agree with it as well. However, executing this requires a fundamental shift in how auto insurance is issued. Instead of having insurance (mostly) tied to a vehicle, it needs to be tied to the driver.

[BoostedBB6]

Originally Posted by Traum

I don't think Collector Plate cars are allowed any use for going to/from work at all. A pleasure use vehicle has that allotment, and it is allowed 6 days per month to use it for work.

I figured it was like that, however I could not find anything other than saying that Collectors plates were for "Pleasure Use" only.
But under ICBC Pleasure use allows for a limited number of work runs a month.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

I figured it was like that, however I could not find anything other than saying that Collectors plates were for "Pleasure Use" only.
But under ICBC Pleasure use allows for a limited number of work runs a month.

From the ICBC page:

Collector vehicles

Insurance coverage and continued eligibility

It’s your responsibility to ensure the use and condition of your vehicle meets the terms of your policy. Failure to maintain these requirements may impact your insurance.

Keep your vehicle in the same condition as when originally approved for collector vehicle status. Should your vehicle’s condition deteriorate so it no longer complies with the collectible condition requirements, you need to immediately visit your Autoplan broker’s office to obtain regular plates and insurance.

When you're using your collector vehicle, you can drive for pleasure only. That means you can't use it to drive to or from, or part way to work or to school. Doing so will also affect your insurance.

For extra protection, we recommend optional extended coverage, such as Collision, Comprehensive or Specified Perils. Talk to your Autoplan broker for more details.