Jagmeet Singh wins the NDP leadership race

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by welfare

i couldn't find AI technlogy capable of successfully trading stocks. can you share?

Automated trading exists. Any that's good will not be available to the public because it's a license to print money.

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[welfare]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

What you are stating here is a form of selection bias. I'm sure we all know of the rags-to-riches story about a guy who rose out of the ghetto to become CEO of his own clothing line. But that's the outlier. For every 1 of those stories there's probably a 10000 that you never hear of where generational poverty is the reality for them.

you can call it what you like, but the cold fact is people aren't forced into poverty here (fortunately). in fact, quite the contrary. and the opportunities of the "rags to riches" story are the same throughout the population, regardless of whether or not it is an anomoly.

We already do pay, through EI, CPP, etc. Except it's paid out extremely inefficiently through the various welfare programs in place now. The cost savings from implementing an across the board UBI would make up some of the difference. I'm not an expert on this but I assume we will also need to top it up somehow probably in the form of more taxes. However, in the long run society will be better off for this as it will free up human capital to do more productive actions rather than just fight for survival. I mean the gov't already does this by providing basic infrastructure, sanitation, water, etc. How would your life be if you had to blaze your own foot path every time you went out and draw water from a well every morning? Is that not dependency? Unless you live in the woods as a survivalist, you're talking out of your ass

so we increase taxes to pay (likely in the corporate sector) further burdoning business, which is already struggling thanks to the taxes already imposed.
you don't think that will have a negative effect on the economy? and this is a solution to unemployment and poverty?
do you see where i'm coming from?

and yes, i believe in some social services, of course. infrastructure being one of them

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by welfare

i'm not an economics guru. but it doesn't take one to understand the simple concept of the free market.
technology makes jobs obsolete. this is nothing new. jobs are made obsolete and others are created. the market doesn't just evaporate. it's a cycle. the market adjusts.

i couldn't find AI technlogy capable of successfully trading stocks. can you share?

Are you FUCKING serious? You have never heard of algorithm based trading? You do know that roughly 75% of trading is done by algorithms? However it is not easy to estimate.

See it's people like you who are the problem, you lack the education and knowledge on a given subject, yet you prefer to argue as if you carry the facts.

If you don't know something, don't pretend like you do. Why not sit down and learn something from people?

[!LittleDragon]

Most people don't realize that white collar jobs are slowly going away unless they've been affected.

People just see blue collar jobs disappearing. Manufacturing and farming are mostly done by machines and a small crew now. Truck and cab drivers will be gone when autonomous cars are mainstream.

People forget that bank tellers are almost gone. Replaced by the ATM. Portfolio managers are being replaced by robo advisors. Help desk jobs are being replaced by chat bots. Even lawyers are being replaced by software now. Most people don't even notice that a lot of online articles were not written by a human.

[GS8]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

Most people don't even notice that a lot of online articles were not written by a human.

Is that why there's a lot of fake news?

[welfare]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Are you FUCKING serious? You have never heard of algorithm based trading? You do know that roughly 75% of trading is done by algorithms? However it is not easy to estimate.

See it's people like you who are the problem, you lack the education and knowledge on a given subject, yet you prefer to argue as if you carry the facts.

If you don't know something, don't pretend like you do. Why not sit down and learn something from people?

Easy there sparky. I never claimed to have knowledge of automated trading. In fact I asked if he could share.

I am receptive to the concern here.

So this practice is regulated then?
I'd imagine there is still a level of risk involved? How does that risk compare to manual trading?

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by welfare

Easy there sparky. I never claimed to have knowledge of automated trading. In fact I asked if he could share.

I am receptive to the concern here.

So this practice is regulated then?
I'd imagine there is still a level of risk involved? How does that risk compare to manual trading?

Not regulated. Google flash crash.

[welfare]

So with all this talk about massive unemployment due to rapid advances in technology, how do people here feel about the speculation that Canada could see a 0% unemployment rate by 2020?
And that there could be a major labor shortage due to retiring baby boomers and a low Canadian birthrate?
Just curious

[westopher]

If that happens Trudeau is literally the king of Canada and things are good. How are you going to complain about him and demand a conservative turn in economic values then?
I’m happy to leave my further left economic values behind in that case for certain aspects at least.

Should I apologize in advance for all the dam immigants that need to come in 2 fill r jabs that we don’t have the population to fill?

[welfare]

Right. Because it has everything to do with Trudeau's policies.

[welfare]

Knowing him tho, he'll still F that up anyways

[westopher]

Well every problem in the world is because of him, but zero successes are. That’s why listening to people like you talk about things like this is such a joke.
You have no rationality.

[welfare]

Explain to me how baby boomers retiring and a low birth rate has anything to do with his leadership

[westopher]

It doesn’t, but also dropping oil prices has nothing to do with NDP. You pick and choose who’s fault everything is with absolutely no understanding of reality other than what you can use to further your flawed arguments.
You have no concept of reality.
0% unemployment isn’t even in the realm of possibility. You just create contradicting scenarios to further your argument and end up spinning in circles.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by welfare

So with all this talk about massive unemployment due to rapid advances in technology, how do people here feel about the speculation that Canada could see a 0% unemployment rate by 2020?
And that there could be a major labor shortage due to retiring baby boomers and a low Canadian birthrate?
Just curious

With Trudeau's policy proposal to start rescinding tax breaks for small businesses and professionals, I'd be more concerned about rising unemployment rates instead of something that approaches full employment.

Also, if you've been paying attention, boomers are not exactly retiring en masse. Whether it is because financially they cannot afford to retire, or that they are choosing to continue working to keep themselves busy, they continue to occupy more senior positions, and that is causing a direct negative impact on the gen X-ers climbing the corporate ladder. So when the Boomers finally retire for one reason or another, I'd say it is quite a relief for the younger generations.

Low birth rate is a whole other can of worms, and I am too tired / sleepy to write anything now.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by westopher

It doesn’t, but also dropping oil prices has nothing to do with NDP. You pick and choose who’s fault everything is with absolutely no understanding of reality other than what you can use to further your flawed arguments.
You have no concept of reality.
0% unemployment isn’t even in the realm of possibility. You just create contradicting scenarios to further your argument and end up spinning in circles.

So you don't think if a government like the conservatives were still leading that it would allow a more favorable climate to oil producers, like shell, to weather the storm? Even at 30$/barrel?


Oh and here's that contradicting scenario I'm creating

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...mployment_rate

Future labour shortages

The current unemployment rates for each province/territory, in addition to the national unemployment rate, do not take into account the labour shortages that will occur due to Canada's low birth rate and aging population.

The summer of 2020 will see the unemployment rate in Canada drop to nearly zero percent as young workers entering the workforce fail to keep up with the elderly workers retiring by the thousands. Ontario, for example, will see 190,000 job positions go unfilled.[8] Canada will have as many as 1.8 million jobs without the right quality of people to apply for them by 2030.

This will put Canada in a "severe labour shortage" situations; and desperate measures like hiring foreign workers for one year at a time and re-educating unskilled workers into skilled workers will be the agenda for most companies during this era.[9]

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Traum

With Trudeau's policy proposal to start rescinding tax breaks for small businesses and professionals, I'd be more concerned about rising unemployment rates instead of something that approaches full employment.

Precisely why it's so important next election that we consider the upcoming job market. The real job market. Not this drummed up hysteria.

Also, if you've been paying attention, boomers are not exactly retiring en masse. Whether it is because financially they cannot afford to retire, or that they are choosing to continue working to keep themselves busy, they continue to occupy more senior positions, and that is causing a direct negative impact on the gen X-ers climbing the corporate ladder. So when the Boomers finally retire for one reason or another, I'd say it is quite a relief for the younger generations.

Low birth rate is a whole other can of worms, and I am too tired / sleepy to write anything now.

Indeed. But they will be retiring, regardless.

You know what I find funny? There is a huge demand for trades in this province. And the government literally pays for anyone to get their red seal (1000$ for first year completion, another 1000$ for second, and 2000$ upon completion in a four year program). Yet I'm still hearing all this whining about poverty and unemployment.
It just really makes me wonder about this generations priorities.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by welfare

You know what I find funny? There is a huge demand for trades in this province. And the government literally pays for anyone to get their red seal (1000$ for first year completion, another 1000$ for second, and 2000$ upon completion in a four year program). Yet I'm still hearing all this whining about poverty and unemployment.
It just really makes me wonder about this generations priorities.

IMO, it isn't just for trades. In a good chunk of Metro Vancouver, it is extremely difficult to hire for a job that requires some sort of specialty -- I was just reading the other day that apparently, line cooks are having a huge difficulty with hiring. Opticians are in the same boat. Apprentice mechanics same deal.

From what I can gather, the difficulty is primarily a result of Vancouver's highly expensive cost of living. Shxtty traffic also does not help. Businesses -- esp small / independently owned businesses -- are caught between a rock and a hard place because they can't find anyone available to work, and yet they can't offer a higher salary to attract talent because their customers are not willing to pay for higher prices.

[westopher]

Can attest to difficulty of hiring cooks.
Margins are too thin and they don’t get paid enough. Imagine they could have a universal basic income and afford to live here? The talent pool would be incredible.
If people aren’t head chefs by 30 or so they leave the industry because the earnings ceiling is so low. It’s sad when people are reaching amazing talents and they have to say fuck it because this place is too expensive.
It’s like that in many industries to do with the arts and creativity in some capacity. You have to make it or be willing to sacrifice the prospects of a family to continue to persue it.

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by welfare

So you don't think if a government like the conservatives were still leading that it would allow a more favorable climate to oil producers, like shell, to weather the storm? Even at 30$/barrel?


Oh and here's that contradicting scenario I'm creating

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...mployment_rate

[$_$]

Originally Posted by welfare

you can call it what you like, but the cold fact is people aren't forced into poverty here (fortunately). in fact, quite the contrary. and the opportunities of the "rags to riches" story are the same throughout the population, regardless of whether or not it is an anomoly.



so we increase taxes to pay (likely in the corporate sector) further burdoning business, which is already struggling thanks to the taxes already imposed.
you don't think that will have a negative effect on the economy? and this is a solution to unemployment and poverty?
do you see where i'm coming from?

and yes, i believe in some social services, of course. infrastructure being one of them

Yeah, you're right, people aren't forced into poverty here. But as it's continuously pointed out, the "rags to riches" stories are outliers rather than the norm. That means 99% of the population suffers when you have 1 person succeeding. Is that really taking care of your fellow peers?

Further burdening businesses? Why aren't we more worried more about the bottom 25% of the people over the mega corps?

Look, UBI is probably a long ways away. The solution to poor decisions as you are alluding to is due to lack of education and good social structure. We are extremely fortunate in Canada already, with the system we have set up. And we got here by being more progressive than other countries and learning from their mistakes. That's the advantage of being a relatively young country with people from all different backgrounds. Greed isn't the answer to what should be incentivizing growth. That's my bottom line. If it is, then you devolve into all kinds of fucked up shit that people are willing to do in order to get what they think is theirs.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Traum

IMO, it isn't just for trades. In a good chunk of Metro Vancouver, it is extremely difficult to hire for a job that requires some sort of specialty -- I was just reading the other day that apparently, line cooks are having a huge difficulty with hiring. Opticians are in the same boat. Apprentice mechanics same deal.

From what I can gather, the difficulty is primarily a result of Vancouver's highly expensive cost of living. Shxtty traffic also does not help. Businesses -- esp small / independently owned businesses -- are caught between a rock and a hard place because they can't find anyone available to work, and yet they can't offer a higher salary to attract talent because their customers are not willing to pay for higher prices.

I absolutely agree. Cost of living plays a huge role. And it is a struggle in the beginning. But if you tough it out, get your red seal, depending on the trade, you can make a very comfortable living. That can be accomplished within a few years. And as mentioned, the government just about pays the tuition and materials.
So I do believe that there is a lack of motivation or direction as well.

Small businesses are struggling as it is, as you've mentioned. JT's tax plan will indefinitely cause further hardship. And this talk about increasing minimum wage would certainly have a dire effect as well. This is a time that burdens on business should be lifted, not exacerbated, IMO.

Yes greater Vancouver is extremely expensive right now.
I see people struggling to pay 2000$ rent for a single bedroom and i have to ask myself, why?
A good majority of people doing this could lower their cost of living by moving further out.
Many don't feel that they should have to sacrifice that. But it is their choice.
I realized that Vancouver was getting out of hand long ago. So even though I was born and raised there, love that city, I moved further out. And when it came time to buy, I moved further still. It wasn't what I wanted, but that's life sometimes. We adapt.

Originally Posted by $_$

Yeah, you're right, people aren't forced into poverty here. But as it's continuously pointed out, the "rags to riches" stories are outliers rather than the norm. That means 99% of the population suffers when you have 1 person succeeding. Is that really taking care of your fellow peers?

Further burdening businesses? Why aren't we more worried more about the bottom 25% of the people over the mega corps?

Look, UBI is probably a long ways away. The solution to poor decisions as you are alluding to is due to lack of education and good social structure. We are extremely fortunate in Canada already, with the system we have set up. And we got here by being more progressive than other countries and learning from their mistakes. That's the advantage of being a relatively young country with people from all different backgrounds. Greed isn't the answer to what should be incentivizing growth. That's my bottom line. If it is, then you devolve into all kinds of fucked up shit that people are willing to do in order to get what they think is theirs.

Being successful does not equal greed. And making sound decisions in our lives does not have to hurt anyone.

the rags to riches (we don't really have to say riches. We can just use the word successful, or even happy) outcome may be a small fraction. But just because the outcome was a small fraction doesn't mean that the opportunity was.

As you've mentioned, we are extremely fortunate to live in this country. I agree. And as I'd mentioned previously, we rank amongst the top in developed countries for social mobility.

I'm sure we are in agreement of the same outcome. The good of the common man. We just aren't in agreement of the approach.

I don't want to see people struggle any more than you do. I just don't believe that simply taking money from one area and putting it into the hands of the struggling is the way forward.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by $_$

Further burdening businesses? Why aren't we more worried more about the bottom 25% of the people over the mega corps?

the obvious answer would be businesses employ people.

it's my opinion that the government is not here to help people (aside from those physically incapable).
they're here to provide an environment favorable for people to help themselves.
i think the ability to self sustain and adapt is one of the most important elements in a society.

that is one of the fundamental differences between ideologies.

i'm not saying the government shouldn't help anyone. hell, there are people in this country living in third world conditions.
those peoples help is not going to come in the form of a monthly check

[$_$]

Originally Posted by welfare

I'm sure we are in agreement of the same outcome. The good of the common man. We just aren't in agreement of the approach.

I don't want to see people struggle any more than you do. I just don't believe that simply taking money from one area and putting it into the hands of the struggling is the way forward.

I'm glad we agree on something.

I think what I'm getting at though, is that the current idea of "work" for sustainability doesn't resonate very well for me. A recent TED talk I watched said that 60% of people didn't enjoy their jobs; and of those, IIRC 30% hated their jobs. That's a very large portion of the population that spend the majority of their lives doing something that they do not like. We can talk about "choices" and opportunities all day, but that's just the reality of the situation right now (even with opportunities given). The reason I'm both excited and terrified of AI is that I'm hoping it'll free up human capital to allow us to become unshackled to this type of lifestyle, but only if we apply it properly.

Originally Posted by welfare

the obvious answer would be businesses employ people.

it's my opinion that the government is not here to help people (aside from those physically incapable).
they're here to provide an environment favorable for people to help themselves.
i think the ability to self sustain and adapt is one of the most important elements in a society.

that is one of the fundamental differences between ideologies.

i'm not saying the government shouldn't help anyone. hell, there are people in this country living in third world conditions.
those peoples help is not going to come in the form of a monthly check

Health care didn't use to be universal. But look at us now. I think income could just be another one of those baselines that we look back on and think of it as a no brainer.

There are more important things to "sustain and adapt" to as a society. Fixing global warming. Fixing GLOBAL hunger and inequality. Working towards multinational peace and prosperity. Becoming an interplanetary species. All of those things are more important that sustaining and adapting to make sure that any one person have to worry about shelter and food. There's tons of data to look into for this; we create more than enough food for us to feed the entire world, yet we waste a huge amount of that and people starve to death every day. On the same side of that, we create enough more than enough wealth to sustain the world, yet income inequality gap is larger and larger every day. UBI and other programs like that is about redistributing that wealth, so that more people can enjoy it, and not just people at the top of the pyramid.

None of this is very possible without the advancement of AI and automation. I'm watching it happen with my very own eyes at my very own company right now. My company is going to profit and save money from it. But the workers I lay off will not.

[welfare]

My friend, I hate to be the one to break this to you. but regardless of the social structure chosen, the conclusion is the same; the vast majority of the population working for a very small number of people at the top.
That is the thumbnail sketch of mankind