HELP needed - Candy Paint

[westopher]

6thgear where are you a painter? You seem like someone I'd want dealing with my paint issue.

[prelude_prince]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

Color looks/reacts different under different light sources. How it looks in the paint booth will look different from incandescent light to outdoor natural light. Even outside in the shade or direct sunlight will look different. You should roll the car outside on a clear sunny day and see if the blotchness/clouding is still visible. Usually with clouding in my experience you will see it most on cloudy/overcast days. If the blotchiness is severe enough you will see it under any light source.

Thanks again, 6thGear. I was also talking to the owner of a custom paint shop, where he painted a jaguar etype a similar color. He mentioned even his car looked horrible in the booth. He also advised, like you to roll the car out to the sun to make a decision. The shop did mention they will do it once all the panels are on.

Project Purist: The Jaguar E-Type Built To Drift - Speedhunters







I can kind of notice some clouding even in the feature, but it's really hard to tell again, if it really is clouding or just the shadow/reflection of the paint.



and... latest photos from the shop;

[6thGear.]

That E-type looks nuts. Definitely tickles my fancy. I told myself one day I'll build myself a car (AC Shelby cobra) with either Viper blue or Candy Apple Red.

Originally Posted by westopher

6thgear where are you a painter? You seem like someone I'd want dealing with my paint issue.

Thanks for the kind words but if I brought in resto/custom work or fixing someone else's screw up my boss would kill me LOL. He only wants ICBC work. Maybe if I had my own shop one day....

[prelude_prince]

Yup, I had considered the E-type paint job and also Volcano Red (too expensive) before deciding on the NSX color for a little homage to the new NSX.

[prelude_prince]

Today, 7:33 PM
You;
Westendorp, E.E. (Ernst) (ernst.westendorp@akzonobel.com);
Liu, J. (James) (James.Liu@akzonobel.com);
Mattila, S.M. (Sanna-Maaria) (SannaMaaria.Mattila@akzonobel.com); +1 more
Dear Mr. Chan
We are still keeping testing because we are having our current plan and release the time to make the testing. We just tried two different application methods. We have already informed to the Global technical team, RD&I team as well. We are trying our best. Looks still has slightly cloudiness but we will try and make sure 100% no problem then will update to you as soon as possible. Please forgive me cannot give you an answer in this moment.

Best regards 谨致问候

刘远思 Frankie LAU
技术服务经理 北亚区 Technical Service Manager, North Asia
汽车涂料 Vehicle Refinishes

Well I had escalated my case to the paint supplier Akzo Nobel with the support of the bodyshop behind which is actually Pagani China. So this case has become quite a big deal for them. Looks like there maybe slight problem with the paint itself as even Akzo Nobel cannot paint this without the clouding issue.

[604STIG]

Good thing you didn't just accept things the way they were.

[Suprarz666]

So this shop has 2 paint lines?
Did they try spraying it with Glasurits instead of sikkens?

[prelude_prince]

Originally Posted by Suprarz666

So this shop has 2 paint lines?
Did they try spraying it with Glasurits instead of sikkens?

Yes Suprarz666 they carry both, sorry for confusion. I got the two names mixed up earlier, I don't know my paint names and thought the "Parrot" looking one was Sikkens.

Reason they went with Sikkens was that no one had the red Glasurit paint my paint code called for in stock in Hong Kong. So they can't spray the Glasurit to test.

[prelude_prince]

Originally Posted by 604STIG

Good thing you didn't just accept things the way they were.

Yup, but seems liek this is going to be a long road till my car is completed now.

[prelude_prince]

Update; The paint supplier has found a solution/method to paint and achieve no clouding on the flat panels. Bare with me as I'll try to explain as best as I can without knowledge of painting.

From what I heard from meeting the paint reps in person was that this color was extremely hard to paint due to the large silver metallics in the base coat and color variance from the base coat to the 2nd coat. For instance 41V Mazda Soul Reds are much more simpler due to the fact their base coat is a similar red to the 2nd coat. This is why this color is much more 'candy' or shifts color more than the 41V. The color changes from a very dark blood red to a bright red in different angles and lighting, outside in the sun the metallic flakes are extremely prominent. They had also contacted overseas branches for help but have not found anyone with experience in painting R556P.

In the end they were able to consistently paint without clouding on flat panels with a criss-cross spray pattern, horizontal stroke then vertical, for one coat. Kind of like carbon weave I'm told. They sprayed a lot of door panels using this method and 1-6coats of 2nd layer as you can see below. However this method would only really work for relatively flat panels and not curved surfaces. It would be impossible really to spray a corner etc with a 90 degree criss-cross pattern, but as you can see there is hardly or no clouding on corners and edges. So the next step right now the paint rep is going to support the bodyshop and repaint my external panels using this method. Hoping it works.

Also good luck to all the people painting candy colors! It's been such a PITA for me I wouldn't think to consider candy paint jobs again lol.

[westopher]

Thats going to be stunning when done, but I wouldn't handle the stress of having paintwork like that! I'd probably push the car off the side of a cliff the first scratch it got, knowing it could never be matched again.

[prelude_prince]

Originally Posted by westopher

Thats going to be stunning when done, but I wouldn't handle the stress of having paintwork like that! I'd probably push the car off the side of a cliff the first scratch it got, knowing it could never be matched again.

exactly the thoughts going through my head now!

[coneZONE]

whoa, that's a lot of doors that they have laying around to test spray

[6thGear.]

Glad to hear the paint rep pulled through for you. Criss cross application has been around for a long time as that's how they used to paint metallic colors for single stage enamel paint. A process that hasn't been used for a couple decades and now they are bringing it back for extremely hard paint jobs. I guess yours being one of them. The other is for the new quad-coat(yes 4 different layers) Mazda machine gray and Nissan GT-R KAB color code. When finished the metal flakes is so fine the finished product is to look like liquid metal similar to that aluminum trim on Audi.

Originally Posted by coneZONE

whoa, that's a lot of doors that they have laying around to test spray

Those are just door skins. Pretty common for paint reps to have several for test panel painting

[prelude_prince]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

Glad to hear the paint rep pulled through for you. Criss cross application has been around for a long time as that's how they used to paint metallic colors for single stage enamel paint. A process that hasn't been used for a couple decades and now they are bringing it back for extremely hard paint jobs. I guess yours being one of them. The other is for the new quad-coat(yes 4 different layers) Mazda machine gray and Nissan GT-R KAB color code. When finished the metal flakes is so fine the finished product is to look like liquid metal similar to that aluminum trim on Audi.






Those are just door skins. Pretty common for paint reps to have several for test panel painting

Wow 6thGear you do know your stuff. I talked to a few friends and not many know of the criss-cross method, but you're correct. The paint rep did mention this was in their manual for hard paint jobs since it helps not as wet application and/or distribution. Another reason they said why this was much harder to apply than Soul Red was that Soul Red can be applied wet.

I had to google those two quad color jobs you mentioned. Really have to see those colors in person. I also really want to see the LB 2017 NSX in my color, I wonder if they painted it without clouding issues. I feel sorry for the shops that are going to have to respray/touchup in those colors. Seems fun. My bodyshop manager is telling me they probably won't accept anymore Candy jobs after my car. Too much hassle for them with limited space and crazy rent prices in Hong Kong. Most bodyshops here just want your car in and out, for the # of business turns. Custom work is not profitable for the business model here. Pagani is definitely losing money doing my car this time around, when they can just order and install suspension on a Zonda for something like 100k usd instead.

6thGear You really ought to list the shop you work at, I'm sure you would bring it lots of business for your shop. But you're right custom/resto work... and some troublesome cases can be quite a pain. Check out this Mini in their shop. And I thought I was anal.




I thought it was an interesting racing stripes effect until upon close up it's all stickers pointing to defects in the paint where the owner wasn't pleased with the outcome.