Trump thread 2.0

[SiRV]

Originally Posted by welfare

People can also "choose" not to enter illegally.

And again, no viable solution suggested

... Or you could keep the families together and just deport them

[Manic!]

Hey welfare WWJD?

[welfare]

Originally Posted by SiRV

... Or you could keep the families together and just deport them

yea why didn't they think of that?
kinda like a catch and release type program

[welfare]

Originally Posted by iwantaskyline

Looks like Trump finally caved in.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/20/polit...ion/index.html

i'm glad to hear that.
i can see you're just "ecstatic" over the fate of these children

[welfare]

i'm sure all the human traffickers will be as well, btw

[SiRV]

Originally Posted by welfare

yea why didn't they think of that?
kinda like a catch and release type program

Yeah I'm not sure welfare, why don't you tell me rather than brushing it off with a smug comment? I'd be more than happy to have a real debate with you

[pastarocket]

Originally Posted by iwantaskyline

Looks like Trump finally caved in.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/20/polit...ion/index.html

Props to the First Lady for persuading Trump to change course!

Trump: Will sign 'something' to keep families together

Both first lady Melania Trump and Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen reportedly had roles in the changing course.
The first lady has been working for several days behind the scenes, encouraging the President to keep families together, a White House official told CNN. Melania Trump has had several private conversations with her husband, pushing him to do all he can to keep families at the border intact, whether via a legislative route, or acting alone to stop the process, the official said.

[Bouncing Bettys]

This story coming to light reminds me of the Vietnam War and how public opinion started to turn once the footage was being broadcast into homes. While I like the threat of family separation as a tool to discourage illegal immigration, in practice, I can't really get behind it. Seeing those kids and picturing how my 3 yr old son would survive in that situation. Or, when he was not much younger and his medical issues weren't as easily manageable, not having myself, his mom, or a pediatrics nurse to help, especially when he is too young to even communicate what is wrong. I'm sure most parents, even non parents, sympathise in a similar manor. I can only imagine what those families were running from to risk such a separation, let alone the dangerous journey, in order to find a better life. Shit hole countries indeed.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by SiRV

Yeah I'm not sure welfare, why don't you tell me rather than brushing it off with a smug comment? I'd be more than happy to have a real debate with you

You have to admit,it wasn't entirely unwarranted. I'll agree though. Rude of me.
-Deporting has no deterrent effect for them to just attempt to reenter.

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

This story coming to light reminds me of the Vietnam War and how public opinion started to turn once the footage was being broadcast into homes. While I like the threat of family separation as a tool to discourage illegal immigration, in practice, I can't really get behind it. Seeing those kids and picturing how my 3 yr old son would survive in that situation. Or, when he was not much younger and his medical issues weren't as easily manageable, not having myself, his mom, or a pediatrics nurse to help, especially when he is too young to even communicate what is wrong. I'm sure most parents, even non parents, sympathise in a similar manor. I can only imagine what those families were running from to risk such a separation, let alone the dangerous journey, in order to find a better life. Shit hole countries indeed.

The Vietnamese lived in brutal poverty for decades after the Americans withdrew. Millions of South Vietnamese were slaughtered under communist rule. The withdrawal also paved the way for the khmer rouge to slaughter a third of the Cambodian population.
All said and done it's estimated 7.5 million people died as a result of that withdrawal. A lot can be accredited to the new found moral manipulation of media.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.
And sometimes the path to hell is paved in good intentions.

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by welfare

You have to admit,it wasn't entirely unwarranted. I'll agree though. Rude of me.
-Deporting has no deterrent effect for them to just attempt to reenter.



The Vietnamese lived in brutal poverty for decades after the Americans withdrew. Millions of South Vietnamese were slaughtered under communist rule. The withdrawal also paved the way for the khmer rouge to slaughter a third of the Cambodian population.
All said and done it's estimated 7.5 million people died as a result of that withdrawal. A lot can be accredited to the new found moral manipulation of media.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.
And sometimes the path to hell is paved in good intentions.

Millions of Southern Vietnamese were not slaughtered under communist rule - that is straight up bullshit.

Were thousands sent to re-education camps and mistreated? Yes. My grandfather was one, he was a ranking member of the Southern Vietnamese army and spent years in a re-education camp.

It's funny you mention the Khmer Rouge, do you know which country and government overthrew them and liberated Cambodia? The communist government of Vietnam.

Do you know which country went to the UN and ordered sanctions against Vietnam for doing so? The United States of America.

Watch the video below and try to take a guess if the Vietnamese people wanted the Americans to stay. Read less of r/the_donald, educate yourself and stop spouting nonsense.

Spoiler!

YouTube

[welfare]

So do you think the region was better off because America pulled out?
Almost half a million Vietnamese died trying to flee alone. That straight up bs too?

Do you think the North expelled the Khmer to "liberate Cambodia"? I think you may want to educate yourself on their reasons.
And what would you expect America to do? Help the North?
Yea, I'm spouting nonsense. And you're actually reaching to defend a brutal regime. More emotional, tear jerking videos please, to prove your point

[iwantaskyline]

I am merely disputing your bullshit claims. How do you write something like this without even fact checking? "Millions of South Vietnamese were slaughtered under communist rule".

I have no warm feelings towards the regime, like I said my grandfather spent years in a re-education camp. His time was there was not pleasant.

Of course they had self-serving reasons to liberate Cambodia of the Khmer Rouge - who wants a crazy regime next to their country who commits genocide on millions of their own people (hundreds of thousands of ethnic Vietnamese included)? Not only that, they were attacking numerous southern Vietnamese villages without provocation.

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/08/o...de-046588.html

Yet it was the Vietnamese - and they alone - who drove Pol Pot's regime out of Cambodia and put an end to genocide.

Furthermore, Vietnamese troops have been the only effective obstacle to the Khmer Rouge's return. Meanwhile, our Government consistently pushed in the opposite direction, demanding that the Vietnamese withdraw and paying for the coalition in which the Khmer Rouge is the dominant partner.

There are numerous reports of the CIA supporting the Khmer Rouge even though they were well aware of the genocide occurring.

In late 1975, former National Security Advisor and United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger told the Thai foreign minister: "You should tell the Cambodians that we will be friends with them. They are murderous thugs but we won't let that stand in our way.

Anyways, I'm sure you'll continue grasping at straws. I won't reply regarding this topic anymore as it has nothing to do with this thread.

[SiRV]

I am also going to stop replying in this thread now as well. Who would have thought RS was made up of so many dumbasses who buy the American exceptionalism propaganda.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by SiRV

I am also going to stop replying in this thread now as well. Who would have thought RS was made up of so many dumbasses who buy the American exceptionalism propaganda.

I've clocked out a long time ago on this thread. Guys on the right like welfare are all about the war of attrition, they will spend more time pushing their propaganda online than you are willing to spend time rebuking. They bombard you with lie after lie, gathered off of garbage conspiracy driven right wing websites until you simply give in and move on.

I see this on countless forums and comment sections online, and it's truly bizarre. It's funny how one poster can single-handedly derail an entire discussion, I'll never understand the concept of trolling online, and what enjoyment some people garner from it.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by iwantaskyline

I am merely disputing your bullshit claims. How do you write something like this without even fact checking? "Millions of South Vietnamese were slaughtered under communist rule".

I have no warm feelings towards the regime, like I said my grandfather spent years in a re-education camp. His time was there was not pleasant.

Of course they had self-serving reasons to liberate Cambodia of the Khmer Rouge - who wants a crazy regime next to their country who commits genocide on millions of their own people (hundreds of thousands of ethnic Vietnamese included)? Not only that, they were attacking numerous southern Vietnamese villages without provocation.

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/08/o...de-046588.html



There are numerous reports of the CIA supporting the Khmer Rouge even though they were well aware of the genocide occurring.



Anyways, I'm sure you'll continue grasping at straws. I won't reply regarding this topic anymore as it has nothing to do with this thread.

i'm not saying the US were angels. but you didn't answer the question. do you think the region was better off because of american withdrawal?
i think this topic is very relevant.
even that video you posted. it inherently draws anger and emotion.
yet they barely slipped in one of the most important points. that the US government had no idea of birth defects caused by the chemical. hell, US soldiers literally bathed in it.

just like the multitude of stories that came out over this border issue. rather than inform people with the whole story, factors like previous methods used, illegal entry number stats, or what the alternatives were, they just went straight for the anger and emotion.
they take one piece of the story, the piece that's going to cloud rationale, and exploit it.

and i'm actually very curious on how trump is going to maintain zero tolerance and allow family members to stay together, while keeping within the laws.
changing the laws would be the only way i could see it happening

[SiRV]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

I've clocked out a long time ago on this thread. Guys on the right like welfare are all about the war of attrition, they will spend more time pushing their propaganda online than you are willing to spend time rebuking. They bombard you with lie after lie, gathered off of garbage conspiracy driven right wing websites until you simply give in and move on.

I see this on countless forums and comment sections online, and it's truly bizarre. It's funny how one poster can single-handedly derail an entire discussion, I'll never understand the concept of trolling online, and what enjoyment some people garner from it.

Most of the right wing guys in my family and friends who post regular garbage on Facebook are typically under/un-employed(/educated), fat(actually) and lazy. I feel like there is a definite trend of right wing people just devolving into YouTube/right wing propagandist philosophies believing strictly on "numbers" and "evidence" without being able to decipher the nuances that lie in research - inclusion criteria, exclusion criteria, pre-determined hypothesis vs subgroup analyses etcetc.

Welfare, perfectly groups into these people in my family/extended right wing group of friends. He presents a bombardment of shallow arguments without much thought or consideration of nuances. Like most of the audiences of Sam Harris, Shapiro, Peterson et al. Alot of right wingers your describing (see: welfare) that seem to gravitate towards "evidence" are lonely, internet addicted, self-important illiterates.

I'm off this thread now, and potentially off RS for good (except maybe the travel and watch threads).

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by welfare

i'm not saying the US were angels. but you didn't answer the question. do you think the region was better off because of american withdrawal?
i think this topic is very relevant.
even that video you posted. it inherently draws anger and emotion.
yet they barely slipped in one of the most important points. that the US government had no idea of birth defects caused by the chemical. hell, US soldiers literally bathed in it.

just like the multitude of stories that came out over this border issue. rather than inform people with the whole story, factors like previous methods used, illegal entry number stats, or what the alternatives were, they just went straight for the anger and emotion.
they take one piece of the story, the piece that's going to cloud rationale, and exploit it.

and i'm actually very curious on how trump is going to maintain zero tolerance and allow family members to stay together, while keeping within the laws.
changing the laws would be the only way i could see it happening

The Vietnam discussion (which I brought up) became an unnecessary tangent to make your point, if I am understanding it - ending the practice of separating children from parents, while I think we can all agree is good, does nothing to address the problem of illegal immigration and even makes it worse. It sends a signal to potential illegal immigrants that they have one less thing to worry about when making the journey. You couple that with our own immigration policies and how the US government is literally coaching and driving people to our border so they can illegally cross, and it becomes our problem too. You want solutions, we all do, but allowing such a practice makes us no better than the shit hole countries.

A good number of Democrats and Republicans agreed that this practice was wrong, no matter how it is spun, no matter how it came to be. At least Trump can say he put a stop to it, and I can't fault him for that.

Not sure why others have to resort to name calling, negative characterizations, and talk of leaving the site altogether. Welfare doesn't really make personal attacks and provides a different, even unpopular opinion, which makes things interesting. Echo chambers suck.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by SiRV

Most of the right wing guys in my family and friends who post regular garbage on Facebook are typically under/un-employed(/educated), fat(actually) and lazy. I feel like there is a definite trend of right wing people just devolving into YouTube/right wing propagandist philosophies believing strictly on "numbers" and "evidence" without being able to decipher the nuances that lie in research - inclusion criteria, exclusion criteria, pre-determined hypothesis vs subgroup analyses etcetc.

Welfare, perfectly groups into these people in my family/extended right wing group of friends. He presents a bombardment of shallow arguments without much thought or consideration of nuances. Like most of the audiences of Sam Harris, Shapiro, Peterson et al. Alot of right wingers your describing (see: welfare) that seem to gravitate towards "evidence" are lonely, internet addicted, self-important illiterates.

I'm off this thread now, and potentially off RS for good (except maybe the travel and watch threads).

Don't ditch off sir, you bring good posts to some of these threads. Is there a mute feature on this board you can't use?

[DragonChi]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Don't ditch off sir, you bring good posts to some of these threads. Is there a mute feature on this board you can't use?

User CP > Edit Ignore List > Add members to your ignore list...

[Ludepower]

Originally Posted by welfare

So do you think the region was better off because America pulled out?

Yes. They should of never been there in the first place.

Dude..we get it...your a trump supporting internet troll who talks conspiracy theories at the dinner table.

Go find a new hobby.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by DragonChi

User CP > Edit Ignore List > Add members to your ignore list...

Jared Fogel's Ignore List is for anyone over the age of 14.

[Acura604]

[MG1]

Doesn’t matter what she wears, she’s hot.

[Hehe]

Trump is really doing every country (who has some sort of production) a favor by going full on trade war WITH China.

Yes, Trump is imposing aluminum and steel tariff on many countries, but simply because many of these countries, including Canada are simply acting middleman for China, because it's dumping all the overproduction on the world market.

It serves no good to anyone except China. Some CDN firm might make a few bucks acting as middleman, but ultimately, everyone lost their production job to China.

Moreover, if China were playing fair and square, it would have been fine. But it uses its power to create many trade barriers that unless you give up something greatly (technology, assets.. etc), there's no way you can sell to the Chinese market.

And Justin... because he's so blindly making a FTA with China the top on his list of achievements, he's willing to drag out whole country to go against our southern neighbor, who just happen to be our biggest trade partner.

I think it's time for China to open up its market... they can't have it both ways; want to sell everyone, yet doesn't want to buy anything. If I were Justin, I'd join US to put further pressure on China.

[GS8]

Transcript from the Flores Agreement:

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...ment011797.pdf

The separation of children and adults stems from the Flores Agreement. Here's the Coles notes version:

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/site...nder-final.pdf

Like I said, Trump has been talking borders for years so it's only natural he'd go zero tolerance and basically treat every illegal in criminal context which requires the separation of children and adults. Flores is very clear that children have to be released to family members first and foremost. I do wonder how many adults are posing as family members of children when they're actually taking part in sex-trafficking. Supposedly they are taking DNA samples to see if the children and their accompanying adults are actually related.

The Courts were not happy with the Obama & Bush administrations handling of the influx of children since Flores was enacted so this is hardly a breaking news issue. It's been going on for years and now only we talk about it?

Give me a fucking break. This is why I hate the left and the right. I never divulge my political affiliations because I don't have any. I'm simply a human being who cares more for his community and friends & family. I agree with the left on some issues and agree with the right on other issues.

But all these virtual signalling 'journalists' and celebrities can fuck right off with their assertion of self prescribed dogma. They know nothing and only enjoy the limelight with their narcissism. Pull the heartstrings, earn the ratings, dance in that $$$ shower.

If the Republican is the snake, the Democrat is the parasite on the snake. That's my view on current US politics.