Traum, I think you're a good poster, although I'd like to push back on your thoughts here.

I know you're attempting to be a faux intellectual here, playing the "both sides" argument when it comes to Trump, and his credit for this vaccine.

What I find facinating though, should you not hold Trump to his prior stances which would be completely antithetical to reaching such a vaccine?

Back in 2016, Trump professed and attempted to enact a ban on all immigration from Muslim, and other "shithole" countries.

The couple that founded the vaccine are from Turkey, which as you know is a Muslim country:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C4%9Fur_%C5%9Eahin

To think if Germany had not allowed immigration from this Muslim country, perhaps we would not be seeing this vaccine as of today. In Trump's vision of the world, this doctor would never had a spot in a Western society.

Don't you think Trump's views are quite antithetical to in relation to the actual doctors that founded this same vaccine he's now attempting to take credit for? If he is to take credit for the vaccine, should he also not be held to his views on immigration which if were enacted, would go against the vaccine's finding in the first place?

You don't find that amusing to any degree?

Ethier, you are for fascism of against fascism. if you are against fascism you are anti-fascist A.K.A Antifa.

so are you for or against fascism?

Yeah I tend to think that the WWII troops who were fighting fascists can be considered "anti fascist".

IMO it's actually a good thing that trump is falsely taking credit for the success of these vaccines. Because the alternative would be for him to fearmonger about it to his cult, which would be extremely dangerous for the rest of America.

I never said there weren't inequities. And in fact, i explicitly stated that the histories of SA and Caribbean were more repugnant than NA's. A full 90% of slaves from the Atlantic trade route ended up in these regions (comparatively, only about 5% landed in the US), and of those 90% the death rate was many many times higher than US landed.
and yet it's not something that's constantly brought to the forefront of discussion.
You can see the results in the marriage rates. Over 30% of all marriages in Brazil are interracial. By comparison, Canada, where we pride ourselves on being so diverse and inclusive, that rate is below 5%.
You clearly like making assumptions. You've made them of my character and now even my own experiences.
I don't think we need to assume, the proof is in the pudding.

If Trump's "Muslim" ban was really about keeping Muslims out, why were Muslims, from countries not included in the ban, seemingly allowed entry?

trump lost, lets just stop talking about that loser now and all the losers who seriously think that he somehow won. by trumps own count he lost in a landslide. looking forward to biden's inauguration in jan.

Because people's passports don't have "Muslim" stamped across them. So he went for low hanging fruit first and banned a swath of destitute Muslims from entering the country: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. So maybe not a "Muslim" ban per se, but a "poor Muslim ban" at least for a start.

Huh Turkey is 99% Muslim, yet it was oddly never included as a country Trump restricted access to the US from.
I see it wasn't on the list of countries Obama restricted entry from either. You know, the same list Trump derived his from? The list that wasn't a Muslim ban when Obama implemented it?
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/...waiver-program

Turkey is a part of NATO and the US has 2 very statically important military bases there.

Says something about the people posting around here, eh. Just because I throw out something against opinion, labels are thrown over and over, regardless of fact. That's the point, congrats once again for pointing out the obvious.

https://i.imgflip.com/309ut8.jpg

retweeting "WHITE POWER" just doesn't do it for ya huh

All you need to do is google "list of trump racism" and it returns about 63,500,000 results in 0.40 seconds. And there's good arguments/articles from both liberal and conservative media - some are interpretations of what people think Trump implied when he said some things, and others are straight verbatim.

But here are some impartial sources, with facts/sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial...f_Donald_Trump

And also:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/...ponse_to_what/

But I guess it's ok because he said he's the least racist person ever, you know, something non-racists say all the time.

Trump's racism goes back decades, along with his father. I can't even fathom how someone would come up with a meme denying his racism, and thinking they are being clever :fulloffuck:

God damn Back to the Future 2 was all about Trump's racist ass kicking black people out of Hill Valley LUL

Trump is absolutely an idiot to blanket label Muslims as "bad people" and blanket ban them, whether it was for travel into the US or immigrating to the US. The so-called "bad Muslims" are the radical extremists in ISIS or anyone who shares that same ideology.

Nobody other than Trump himself would know how it is possible that he and what he does are so full of contradictions. Typically, the term that gets used to describe people like this is "someone with no moral compass". Now, I wouldn't say he is a person without any principles because it is very obvious that one of his chief guiding principles is to win at all costs.

As far as how Trump is claiming credit for the vaccine's success and how the lead researcher was someone that Trump would have shut down -- I don't think it matters to him one bit at all. His goal and his tendencies are that he needs to win, and he will try and claim credit for things that he may or may not be responsible for. In this case, because the OWS program was initiated by the US gov under the Trump administration, he will rightfully claim and take credit for it.

The Turkey example that Welfare brought up is also valid here -- the US under Trump has continued to support Turkey in both Syria and Libya. It doesn't bother Trump one bit that Turkey is a mostly Muslim country, as long as Turkey serves a useful function to the US.

In theory, the US has a fully functional system to address the issue. At the practical level, if a POTUS doesn't get sworn in by January, I would expect the US to just temporarily follow the US presidential line of succession and make the Speaker of the House of Representatives (Pelosi) the acting president. To me, that would make the most sense. It is not the end of the world. For the most part, the US will continue to function. The State governments are still completely intact. I don't expect any unresolved issues at the House of Representatives or at the Senate. Some decisions may not get made at the federal level, but various federal branches of government can continue to function on their own, at least in some capacity. It is far from being an ideal situation, but it is not the end of the world.

You know damn well welfare's argument is obtuse at best. Trump vilified "Muslim countries", and attempted to impose such ban. He's never differentiated his ire of Muslim, so I'm going to take his words for face value.

When he said he wanted more immigrants from places like "Norway", you know damn well he wasn't talking about Turkey :lol Heck, one of the major reasons Britain left the EU was because Turkey was slated to join it, the last thing the Brits wanted were a bunch of Muslims coming in from Turkey :lol

You don't think Trump is on side to that? Come on now, this is why I'm not even responding to welfare's silly argument, he knows exactly what Trump's words are about, and they're not about just Yemen and damn Syria.

I feel as though you're giving him credit for the very bare minimum, which is what I find odd.

Let me ask you something, if another president was in place, do you not think he would've enacted the exact same push for a vaccine and put forward every resource available such as every other Western democracy has?

How is the guy who claims COVID is a hoax, who fought to enact the Defense Act for PPE, who only finally begrudgingly authorized it by April, after those companies had already pivoted to produce such items?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/coro...es-so-far.html

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems odd trying to attribute credit for something that if there was a literal monkey at the helm, would've done the exact same thing?

Finally, some credible evidence of election fraud (original story by WaPo but it's behind a paywall)

Oh but it was the Republicans... OOPS! FailFish

by his account, he was just asking about the process of verifying signatures.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...throw-out-some

While welfare's argument is obtuse, the fact that Trump's US remains friendly to Turkey isn't. I don't not know whether he dislikes Turkish people or not. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But since Turkey is an important NATO partner, Trump does not seem to have unleashed any sort of dislike towards Turkey or its people. That was the only reason I brought welfare's post up.

My limited understanding of the EU and Britain having spats with Turkey in the past few years was because of Erdoğan's attempts to seize power for himself and turn Turkey into an authoritarian regime.

I see what you're asking here now, and I guess my reply to you would be -- I honestly don't know if we can expect any other president or national leader to act in a manner than that is consistent with what you and I would consider as common sense and basic understanding of science.

When Harper was in power, he muzzled our climate scientists from speaking to the public / media.

And then there is Trudeau... well... where do we even begin with all the things that we know should have been common sense, but he threw them all out thinking that the rules didn't need to apply to him...

And there was our own Canadian minister and people in power -- Health Minister Hajdu not guarding our borders more strictly and carefully early in the game despite all the evidence that was already available at the time. And the most ridiculous thing was -- Global Affairs Canada was following the 14 day quarantine rule when it brought Canadians back from Wuhan, but Hajdu thought it was unnecessary for travellers from any of the other hard-hit countries.
FailFish

There is the Brazilian president not believing in COVID, even after he caught it himself.

Even Britain and Boris Johnson -- the UK's COVID response was unbelievably weak and inadequate until Johnson got sick himself.

All of these examples are what I would classify as "common sense" too, but these national leaders did not deliver on something as basic as that.
FailFish

So when Trump did what you would describe as "the very bare minimum", esp in the climate where the overwhelming majority of the US media were solely focusing on all his faults while lobbing one softball after another to Biden, I feel like Trump should be given some credit for doing what should have been done.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2...-Biden_03.jpeg

A wedding gift he got from his dad.



He was not allowed to drive as VP. Nice to have a car guy as prez.

Okay, this is good. So now that you can decifer between one person who may be a racist, why then, do tell, does everyone on the left call all right leaning people racists over and over again? How is the action of one person okay to belittle others - call them stupid or racists? What logical rational is there behind it? There are lots of shitty people on this earth, breeding and raising more shitty people, and with it seems to be the lack of common sense anymore.

By that obtuse logic, the original founder of BLM was arrested for embezzling money and that video a few pages back that someone posted the long excerpt from for 'context' - well the BLM member who punched the fellow was arrested, he is a documented pedophile, and his two girlfriends were arrested for stealing the guys phone - so would that make all BLM supporters pedophiles and thieves? Of course not. Drawing those bias conclusions is the definition of ignorance.

Based that many posters here will simply throw out 'you're a racist' without any knowledge, call others stupid without any knowledge of the person, it just goes back to what I was saying all along- people love to hate; and those people are expressing themselves in grand fashion around here.

you really didn't address anything inv4zn linked at all... you just went on some tangent about how the left calls everyone a racist. you even finished it off by saying "many posters here will simply throw out 'you're a racist' without any knowledge", when inv4zn literally provided specific instances of trumps racism...

:lol :lol :lol Man, the gymnastics in this post are astounding.

best advice

it’s been a crazy year

still sad how many tens of thousands will die in the remaining weeks under trump’s watch