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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
already made examples in previous posts, not gonna repeat myself because some here have stated they rather focus on how it affects Canada not Philippines Taiwan Korea
again you live in HK, and you reply with one word? is this trolling?
you haven't replied, how are bills like that anti-democratic?
you're still ignoring that no other western pm presidents this century have put in actual policies instead of only lip service 'we condemn your human rights abuse!' then continues life without sanctions. And now look at life in the West because we followed mostly the WHO's recommendations initially
and the increased NATO vessel activities in the China sea this year are just for coincidence and not a response to islands-making with PLA installments?
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Last edited by twitchyzero; 01-15-2021 at 09:58 AM.
Old, but still so funny. Love the baby filter. Baby filter Trudeau, but he's so boring, it ain't gonna work. Debate between Trump and Biden is pretty funny.
This video below was made four years ago........... when the barbie doll came out at 0:27, I was thinking, "No... don't grab her by the........"
On the one hand, you may say that Trump's tough stance against China (Huawei, trade tariffs, presence in the South China Seas) is positive. From the other angle, it is on par with his America First approach. Shutting out Huawei inevitably helped US companies. Not sure what the core motivation is ... a) global leader standing up to a tyrant or b) here is an opportunity for America First.
I mean Trump tried to add tariffs to trade with Canada ad nauseum ... what was his motive there? Standing up globally to the tyrant Canada?
And oh .. don't forget the attempt to ban Tiktok ... a huge global threat.
For someone who is currently living in Hong Kong, I really find it surprising that you can be thinking this way. It isn't "a narrative that I built" that Trump is tough on China. It is a common consensus among the anti-Communist China crowd that Trump has been quite effective in clamping down on China, and this consensus includes insights from some of Hong Kong / Taiwan's smartest critics and commentators.
If you think Biden would have enacted those 5G sactions like Trump has, think again. During his campaign, Biden tried to say that he would remove Trump’s tariffs on Chinese products if elected president. (His staff later walked back on the statement.) Biden also said he would work with western democracies to broadly pressure China into abiding by international rules and protocols. As I've pointed out before, that approach does not work (on China). The 5G blockages are also not something that any administration would have done as you so claim. Look back at what I have mentioned above -- I'd say the the other countries are only blocking Huawei and its 5G because they have seen Trump leading the charge, so joining the ban after the US has done it first becomes far less risky for themselves. When you look at the timeline of when the bans came into place, you will see that it started with the US on May 1, 2019. Britain and Frace, for example, followed a year later.
As the largest economy in the world as well as China's biggest trading partner, the US already posses more than enough strength and firepower to force China into cooperating. If the RoW wants to join in on the effort, it'll make the job faster and easier. If there is too much bickering (because each country's national interest will be different), then the US can go at it alone, and it'll be somewhat slower. There is no need to wait.
Sanctions and tariffs are different things. Removing or lowering tariffs does not mean that Huawei 5g will automatically be welcomed back with open arms. As you said, the other nations also chose the same ban. It was not driven by other countries' anti-communism views, or as a protest to the China's human rights record nor to stop China's quest for world domination. It was deemed as a security risk and not a partisan policy. Assuming that a Biden administration (or any other administration not named Trump) would ignore their own intelligence warnings and allow Huawei 5g is quite a reach, IMHO.
Also, increasing or implementing tariffs does not mean you are being tough and standing up to China on a world stage. It just means that you want their imported products to be more expensive so that consumers may choose a domestic substitute. It has nothing to do with "Stop oppressing your citizens or invading Asean countries or we will make your cell phones/toys/junk more expensive in the US!"
Now, as for calling it the "China Virus". This will be up to debate and a matter of opinion since we don't really know exactly what he's thinking and he's been known to straight up lie, but I will go with how I perceive him based on what he's said and done so far:
1. He likes to deflect blame on just about anything
2. He bungled up his federal coronavirus response and stigmatized masks
3. He's somewhat racist
4. He seems to be very self-serving in the way he acts
To me, based on my perceptions above, I think that he is just trying to shift the blame on China because of his own atrocious handling of the coronavirus. This is a matter or opinion and I'm sure you will disagree, but I believe it has nothing to being tough on China. If the virus had originated in Brazil and US counts are as high as it is , he would be calling it the "Brazil virus" and it's not because of IP theft.
__________________ Never argue with a dumbass, they drag you down to their level and try to beat you with experience
It doesn't have to be one or the other, does it? For some things, 99% of the motivation is probably because of the America First policy. For others, the motivations could be 99% against China, and of course, there are stuff that lies anywhere inbetween. I don't see any conflicts between the 2 goals at all.
Huawei has long been accused of IP theft (from American companies), unauthorized surveillance / sending data back to China / state-level security risks, and unfair business practices. This Medium article describes some of the accusations (many of which have been proven to be true):
I do not appreciate the way Trump goes after US allies, especially Canada. Canada has been the US' best and most important ally in far too many ways. A lot of our industries are intertwined -- the auto manufacturing sector, for example. To have the US pressure us (and Mexico) the way it did during the USMCA negotiations was infuirating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitev70r
On the one hand, you may say that Trump's tough stance against China (Huawei, trade tariffs, presence in the South China Seas) is positive. From the other angle, it is on par with his America First approach. Shutting out Huawei inevitably helped US companies. Not sure what the core motivation is ... a) global leader standing up to a tyrant or b) here is an opportunity for America First.
I mean Trump tried to add tariffs to trade with Canada ad nauseum ... what was his motive there? Standing up globally to the tyrant Canada?
And oh .. don't forget the attempt to ban Tiktok ... a huge global threat.
Sanctions and tariffs are different things. Removing or lowering tariffs does not mean that Huawei 5g will automatically be welcomed back with open arms. As you said, the other nations also chose the same ban. It was not driven by other countries' anti-communism views, or as a protest to the China's human rights record nor to stop China's quest for world domination. It was deemed as a security risk and not a partisan policy. Assuming that a Biden administration (or any other administration not named Trump) would ignore their own intelligence warnings and allow Huawei 5g is quite a reach, IMHO.
In regards to getting tough on China, whether it is banning Huawei 5G or imposing sanctions on human rights violation, the point that I want to emphasize is -- at the international level, I would say that a lot of the push back against China would not have happened if it wasn't for Trump and the US doing it first. Except for US, no other country in the world packs enough of an economic / policy / military punch on its own against China, and China knows and always take advantage of this. Take the Nobel Prize Committee's awarding of its prestigious peace prize to Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo. The Chinese government responded by freezing political and economic relations with Norway, introducing sanctions against imports of fish and other products, and limiting diplomatic interaction. On a 1-to-1 level, China always uses its economic might to punish other countries to get what it wants. When combined with its infiltration and subversion efforts, this makes it quite difficult for certain countries to stand up to China. But when there is the US acting as the vanguard leading the charge, it becomes a lot easier for other countries to join in on the push back.
For your comment on Biden walking back on their stance against Huawei, just because support for the ban was bipartisan, that doesn't necessarily mean the execution of the plan will always remain firm. At any given point on any given issue, there will always be hardliners and pacifiers / engagement crew. We will see what Biden ultimately chooses to do once he steps into office, but I prefer Trump's harder stance, and I am concerned that Biden will let up on at least certain issues and give China a chance to catch its breath.
Quote:
Also, increasing or implementing tariffs does not mean you are being tough and standing up to China on a world stage. It just means that you want their imported products to be more expensive so that consumers may choose a domestic substitute. It has nothing to do with "Stop oppressing your citizens or invading Asean countries or we will make your cell phones/toys/junk more expensive in the US!"
I think using Huawei / Xiaomi smart phones would be a good example here. Prior to the ban / tariffs, between the similarly spec-ed phones from Huawei / Xiaomi / Samsung / LG / Google, the Huawei and Xiaomi phones would always be 1 step cheaper while using similar or slightly superior hardware. Alternatively, at the same price points, Huawei and Xiaomi would always offer phones with specs that are 1 step above the competition.
The problem here is -- for a lot of Chinese industries, they are either state-backed enterprises (Huawei) or enjoy other state-assisted benefits. They may or may not be for-profit private enterprises even if they brand themselves as such. And that's where the tariffs come in handy to level the playing field, so to speak.
For what it is worth, Pompeo has just banned cotton and tomato products from Xinjiang 2 days ago over allegations that they are made with forced labor from detained Uighur Muslims. Pompeo has also imposed sanctions on quite a few Chinese and Hong Kong officials over their involvement in the undemocratic policies in Hong Kong and elsewhere. The Hong Kong and Chinese official sanctions, in particular, are why Pompeo is really, really well liked among Hong Kongers.
There are no doubts that Trump's administration is tougher on China and Pompeo plays a key role in all those sanctions. China probably wanted Biden to win more than anything.
The climate of the world and general perception of China in 2021 is not anywhere near as positive as it was from 2008-2016 when Biden was VP. I think you will see a very different stance taken.
Heck, even Trudeau has mouthed off China a couple times in the past 2 months.
For someone who is currently living in Hong Kong, I really find it surprising that you can be thinking this way. It isn't "a narrative that I built" that Trump is tough on China. It is a common consensus among the anti-Communist China crowd that Trump has been quite effective in clamping down on China, and this consensus includes insights from some of Hong Kong / Taiwan's smartest critics and commentators.
If you think Biden would have enacted those 5G sactions like Trump has, think again. During his campaign, Biden tried to say that he would remove Trump’s tariffs on Chinese products if elected president. (His staff later walked back on the statement.) Biden also said he would work with western democracies to broadly pressure China into abiding by international rules and protocols. As I've pointed out before, that approach does not work (on China). The 5G blockages are also not something that any administration would have done as you so claim. Look back at what I have mentioned above -- I'd say the the other countries are only blocking Huawei and its 5G because they have seen Trump leading the charge, so joining the ban after the US has done it first becomes far less risky for themselves. When you look at the timeline of when the bans came into place, you will see that it started with the US on May 1, 2019. Britain and Frace, for example, followed a year later.
As the largest economy in the world as well as China's biggest trading partner, the US already posses more than enough strength and firepower to force China into cooperating. If the RoW wants to join in on the effort, it'll make the job faster and easier. If there is too much bickering (because each country's national interest will be different), then the US can go at it alone, and it'll be somewhat slower. There is no need to wait.
Gang Chen, who received $19M from the Biden/Obama administration and $29M from the Chinese Communist Party, was just arrested. The ties are there and I can see them opening again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitev70r
That's only because he knows Trump is on his way out. Very different tone than in the early years of Trump's presidency.
It was the smart thing to do though. US carries a lot of power over Canada, and sometimes it’s best to let the baby have its bottle so you can get some quiet time.
__________________
98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
Took me all of 5 minutes of looking to figure out that Rodriguez lady has been sued for lying about all the people she supposedly named, 2/3 of whom were Republicans mind you:
Quote:
Project Veritas, which is known for deceptive “sting” operations intended to expose supposed liberal bias and corruption, spent much of 2020 trying to delegitimize mail-in balloting in the lead-up to the presidential election. In September, researchers at Stanford University found that a video the group released about Democratic U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar’s campaign was likely part of a coordinated disinformation effort.
In 2015, Republican state officials used a now-discredited Project Veritas video to drop Planned Parenthood from its Medicaid program, which serves low-income women. A conservative appeals court upheald the decision last fall and it takes effect next month.
Do you often watch videos that use cuts to repeat someone’s “Mexican immigrant sounding last name” 20 times in a row so it appears extra evil and insidious?
It doesn't have to be one or the other, does it? For some things, 99% of the motivation is probably because of the America First policy. For others, the motivations could be 99% against China, and of course, there are stuff that lies anywhere inbetween. I don't see any conflicts between the 2 goals at all.
Well, yes, I'm going to argue the primary motivation does matter. One of the central questions of Trump's leadership is his character and the way that he ruled. People separated the two (character/motivation vs. leadership) and concluded that as long as the end result is 'good', then it doesn't matter that he was an ass or what the motivation was.
I want to suggest that a motivation for self-gain vs. protecting weaker countries in the Southern China Seas means a lot even if the outcome looks somewhat the same.
The climate of the world and general perception of China in 2021 is not anywhere near as positive as it was from 2008-2016 when Biden was VP. I think you will see a very different stance taken.
Heck, even Trudeau has mouthed off China a couple times in the past 2 months.
For everyone's sake, I hope Biden will take a much tougher stance against China.
Kudos to VP Pence for doing something presidential to help with the transition of power to Biden and Harris.
Unlike Cheeto's sulking, self pitying weaksauce of a President in denial, the VP is doing work in a much more visible, presidential manner than Cheeto.
One is dropping in on the White House phone operators, addressing troops at bases across the country, paying a visit to national guardsmen in place for the inauguration and speaking by phone with his successor.
The other is holed up inside, silenced on social media, resisting entreaties to deliver a farewell address and refusing to speak to the man who beat him.
The respective ways Vice President Mike Pence and his boss, President Donald Trump, are concluding their terms in the White House amount to a study in contrasts.
One way is decidedly more presidential than the other.
After an extended period of estrangement after Trump called Pence a "p*ssy" and lambasted him in front of a crowd that later stormed the US Capitol to hunt him, Trump and Pence are now speaking.
But many in Pence's orbit remain furious at how Trump behaved the day of the insurrection attempt, which brought rioters within seconds of encountering Pence and members of his family in the hallways outside the Senate chamber. Trump did not call to check on Pence's safety during the ordeal.
And the two men, while back on speaking terms, are now following entirely divergent paths in the twilight of their administration.
On Thursday, Pence spoke with Vice President-elect Kamala Harris for the first time, the highest-level contact to date between the outgoing and incoming administrations. Their conversation was described as cordial, with Pence offering his congratulations and assistance, according to a person familiar with the matter. The New York Times first reported the conversation.
Pence, who has been among the advisers encouraging the President to more forcefully condemn last week's riots, has adopted a more cheerful outlook.
During an afternoon outing on Thursday, he dropped into the pool of White House phone operators working in the New Executive Office Building across the street from the White House, presenting them with challenge coins and a framed letter of appreciation.
From there he traveled to the headquarters of Federal Emergency Management Agency for a briefing on inauguration security, which Trump was also briefed on this week at the White House but which he hasn't addressed at length.
"We all lived through that day of January the 6th and as the President made clear yesterday, we are committed to an orderly transition and to a safe Inauguration," he said, seated at the head of a table flanked by an American flag. "The American people deserve nothing less."
Before he returned to the White House, Pence stopped to greet troops posted outside the Capitol, where a week earlier he had been hunkered in a secure location while would-be insurrectionists stormed the building.
"God bless you," he told the cordon. "It's been my great honor to serve as your vice president."
Pence is using Air Force Two amply in his final days. He flew to West Virginia on Friday for a memorial service for the late test pilot Chuck Yeager, telling the gathering he extended deep sympathies "on behalf of the President of the United States."
He will travel to two military installations over the weekend: Naval Air Station Lemoore, in California, on Saturday for remarks on the Trump administration's foreign policy; and Fort Drum, in New York, on Sunday for remarks to 10th Mountain Division soldiers recently returned from Afghanistan.
Keep in mind that Cheeto never called Pence on the day of the riots at the Capitol buildings to see if he and his family were safe.
Vice President Mike Pence was closer than initially known to a violent mob of protesters at the US Capitol last Wednesday, according to new reporting from the Washington Post.
Pence, per the Post, remained in the Senate chamber for about 14 minutes after Capitol Police reported the initial attempted breach of the building. Pence, along with second lady Karen Pence and daughter Charlotte Pence Bond, were then moved into a room off the Senate floor.
About one minute after Pence was moved, the Post said, the mob of rioters moved up the stairs to the second floor landing outside the Senate entrance, where Capitol Police officer Eugene Goodman heroically led them in the opposite direction. The Washington Post said that Pence and his family were in a hideaway “less than 100 feet from that landing, according to three people familiar with his whereabouts.”
“If the pro-Trump mob had arrived seconds earlier, they would have been in eyesight of the vice president as he was rushed across a reception hall into the office,” the report suggested,
__________________
Go Canucks go!
Last edited by pastarocket; 01-15-2021 at 01:52 PM.
already made examples in previous posts, not gonna repeat myself because some here have stated they rather focus on how it affects Canada not Philippines Taiwan Korea
again you live in HK, and you reply with one word? is this trolling?
you haven't replied, how are bills like that anti-democratic?
you're still ignoring that no other western pm presidents this century have put in actual policies instead of only lip service 'we condemn your human rights abuse!' then continues life without sanctions. And now look at life in the West because we followed mostly the WHO's recommendations initially
and the increased NATO vessel activities in the China sea this year are just for coincidence and not a response to islands-making with PLA installments?
The HK sanctions were not Trump, they were bi-partisan in both congress and senate.
If you really want America to have a Republican president who will go hard against China at all costs, you want them to elect Marco Rubio.
As for other countries sanctioning China, you might want to look at what Australia is going through. Many other countries (and individual companies) have stopped importing goods from Xinjiang. Including America stopping cotton and tomatoes from there only a few days ago, with a more widespread ban in the works, once Trump is dealt with.
The conflict of interest allegations are disconcerting, and I wouldn't rule it out as one of the reasons that Trump has given it a pass. At the same time, I would also say that ZTE may not be the biggest fish to catch because that honour falls on Huawei, and Trump has literally squeezed Huawei to death.
I seem to recall that ZTE was one of the earlier tech companies that the Trump administration went after. Potentially, I'd say we can view that as a warning shot fired to threaten China into submitting to the US. Now that the history is behind us, we can say that warning shot might have failed, but that's OK too because the Trump gov went after Huawei hard afterwards.
As a major developer for 5G tech, including infrastructure, Huawei was the crown jewel of China's international level company, and its international success plays very much into China's worldwide ambitions. Hunting it down resulted in world-wide consequences and ruined China's plans to gain control and influence at the international level. This was something that happened under Trump.
...
Traum, I see what you're saying here, but I believe you're looking at it in a very narrow way. Ultimately we're debating the very idea of supporting a racist demagogue such as Trump simply because a perceived adverse effect he's had on a Chinese telecom company. A company that you, myself, will never have a direct connection with, nor be engaged with in any meaningful way.
What Trump represented, what his supporters represented are so intrinsically evil in their overall beliefs, this issue far supersedes such a meaningless subject -- and the overall pointlessness to continue a grasping of straws to validate this man in the first place.
We can get into the policy wonk side of political debate, and in fact, that's where we should be. We can never have these debates when one party and its elected representative utilizes xenophobia and racism as its primary agenda. Trump was an absolute and total disaster, these outcoming elections highlighted that, none of that should be overshadowed.
I've always said, come to this side for now, once the other side cleans up their act, we can have the true policy wonk debates of the future. This China stance really isn't the overarching argument to me for his support. If you feel that way, that's your position. We'll see have to see how Biden engages with China and see if that meets your expectations.
That line near the end about doing it for free and being his pleasure to help crush a white nationalist insurrection... chef’s kiss
That line warmed my heart. Hearing him say it makes it so much better too, I hope people watch that interview. I think some are turning a blind eye to this, otherwise we wouldn't be getting the "not terrorists" stuff
This real estate agent flew to the riots in a private jet. She has now been arrested and has lost her business. Wants trump to pardon every one. It's crazy how many people are willing to throw there lives away for trump.
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