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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
He chose to call her up to sing a song he recorded which contains the word. If he doesn't want a non-black person to say it, then he shouldn't be doing that. He set her up as a publicity stunt, plain and simple.
Yeah I agree in this regard, don't call up a white person to sing your song that uses the N word multiple times and call them out on it. They are a fan of yours obviously, not cool to set them up like that.
The word and all its derivatives are widely used in mainstream art forms like music, movies and television. Art imitates life and life imitates art. To single out certain groups based on skin colour for using language while giving a pass to others, is racist. Either it is all ok or none of it is. And if none of it is ok, where does it end? Who decides? How far are we willing to police language?
Yeah I agree in this regard, don't call up a white person to sing your song that uses the N word multiple times and call them out on it. They are a fan of yours obviously, not cool to set them up like that.
The guy before her had no problems editing out the words on stage.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
What are your thoughts on blackface? Ok for white people to dress up or no? Why was C. Thomas Howell's part on Soul Man largely considered racist and offensive?
Why was Robert Downey Jr's part in Tropic Thunder largely given a pass?
I'll tell you why - the former is meant to lampoon black people, the latter is meant to lampoon Hollywood and method actors. This is what as known as context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68style
^ You're obviously not black, I've never read such privileged nonsense reasoning in my entire life...
There's a very good reason it's ok for black people to call each other by that word, it's ingrained into their culture and a way of identifying with each other over hardships they have faced as slaves and continue to face nowadays in the form of unfair persecution and labeling... which you haven't had to do ever in your life nor has anyone in your family is my guess... they earned that right within their own community. Maybe it will come to pass when they don't need it anymore, some of them choose not to use it anymore themselves, but who the fuck are you to take that choice away from them?
It's got nothing to do with you, so just don't say it and go on with your life. It's really not hard, there's no word police, it's not rocket science... just don't fucking say it if you're not black. How simple is that? Literally black and white. How ironic.
How ironic that you provide context to argue against context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyMark
I don't know why it would remotely bother anyone that black people get to use the word and white people don't. It was a racist term that they decided to take for themselves, if that bothers you then I'm almost inclined to think you're racist yourself.
Thank you for providing context on such a complex issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyMark
Yeah I agree in this regard, don't call up a white person to sing your song that uses the N word multiple times and call them out on it. They are a fan of yours obviously, not cool to set them up like that.
So in this regard, context matters? That didn't take long.
The guy before her had no problems editing out the words on stage.
What guy before her? I just watched the first video. My point is why bring up a person to sing a song of yours that's laced with the N word at all, it's like he's wanting the person to fuck up so he can stop the concert and make fun of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys
How ironic that you provide context to argue against context.
Thank you for providing context on such a complex issue.
So in this regard, context matters? That didn't take long.
How about you tell us why it bothers you that you can't use the N word? Somehow it's racist according to you which is ridiculous.
There's obviously degrees on the use of the word. One person is caught up in the moment of singing a song on stage for a person they idolize, and another is trying to justify using the word cause some racist guy who was born in the 1800s used it to.
If you can't separate who's the real racist in that scenario then I don't know what to say.
How about you tell us why it bothers you that you can't use the N word? Somehow it's racist according to you which is ridiculous.
There's obviously degrees on the use of the word. One person is caught up in the moment of singing a song on stage for a person they idolize, and another is trying to justify using the word cause some racist guy who was born in the 1800s used it to.
If you can't separate who's the real racist in that scenario then I don't know what to say.
Telling people of a particular race that they must restrict their speech or behaviours, regardless of context and based on race alone, certainly meets my definition of racism.
Are you one of those people that believes it isn't racism if it isn't against white people?
If you look back, I never actually gave an opinion on this.
You just assumed mine. Like many here.
My opinion is yes, it was a stupid thing to say. Especially during a conference call discussing racism.
Do I think he's racist? I have no idea.
The thing that bothers me is most of the media covering this aren't being honest and showing that he did not actually call any black people the n word himself. They intentionally leave that out and just say "he used the n word", without explaining any context. And naturally, the sheeple (sorry, I hate that word too) just assume he used it directly.
They're supposed to be reporting stories with as much detail and impartiality as possible. Not manufacturing consent.
You said that the context he used (paraphrasing Col Sanders) was enough of a reason to be able to say the word. That is so wrong, it comes across as trolling or pure stupidity. If that's not what you meant, I apologize, it wasn't clear to me.
You are right that the media tends to skew things, depending on which "team" they are catering to.
But like I said, we don't know exactly what was said and how it was said. If the context was "Col Sanders called them N**** and never got backlash (therefore anyone should be able to do so)" or "Col Sanders called them N**** and never got backlash (and that's appalling, and we should never use that word)" those are obviously two VERY different statements. One is blatantly racist, one is not racist, but very stupid to use the word.
You seem to think that no matter what, anyone should be able to use the word as long as they're not calling people names. If that's not what you mean, again I am misunderstanding what you mean when you keep bringing up "context". There's practically no context in the working world where a white dude should use that word. Unless they're a comedian or a professor discussing slavery, or an author writing a book based on the period, or something. Not this guy though.
do you see Asians, aboriginals or Hispanics using derogatory terms in their own culture that they're trying to leave in the past?
no, yet there's extensive oppression in each group also going back hundreds of years
you want it to be crystal clear then make it all or none...fuck double standards
using any racial slur is not a birth/skin colour right
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68style
There's a very good reason it's ok for black people to call each other by that word, it's ingrained into their culture and a way of identifying with each other over hardships they have faced as slaves and continue to face nowadays in the form of unfair persecution and labeling... which you haven't had to do ever in your life nor has anyone in your family is my guess... they earned that right within their own community. Maybe it will come to pass when they don't need it anymore, some of them choose not to use it anymore themselves, but who the fuck are you to take that choice away from them?
It's got nothing to do with you, so just don't say it and go on with your life. It's really not hard, there's no word police, it's not rocket science... just don't fucking say it if you're not black. How simple is that? Literally black and white. How ironic.
You said that the context he used (paraphrasing Col Sanders) was enough of a reason to be able to say the word. That is so wrong, it comes across as trolling or pure stupidity. If that's not what you meant, I apologize, it wasn't clear to me.
You are right that the media tends to skew things, depending on which "team" they are catering to.
But like I said, we don't know exactly what was said and how it was said. If the context was "Col Sanders called them N**** and never got backlash (therefore anyone should be able to do so)" or "Col Sanders called them N**** and never got backlash (and that's appalling, and we should never use that word)" those are obviously two VERY different statements. One is blatantly racist, one is not racist, but very stupid to use the word.
You seem to think that no matter what, anyone should be able to use the word as long as they're not calling people names. If that's not what you mean, again I am misunderstanding what you mean when you keep bringing up "context". There's practically no context in the working world where a white dude should use that word. Unless they're a comedian or a professor discussing slavery, or an author writing a book based on the period, or something. Not this guy though.
You're assuming a lot of me here.
My last post was pretty clear. Try not to read beyond it.
Maybe what he said was racist? I don't know. We're not privy to the entire conversation. And I'm not going to just assume that based off a small segment of it where he indirectly used the n word.
I don't think that's unreasonable. Just my opinion though.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
And some black people are ok with a white person using that word, depending on context
And some black people aren't ok with even black people using it. Like ever.
It's all just a matter of context and opinion.
I guess if i were black, i probably wouldn't use it (impossible to know for sure though). Especially not at the level it's used today. It was an oppressive word then. And i think it still is.
Way i see it anyways.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
See that's what i love about this guy. The entertainment.
Reason why when i see comics using him as material, they seem to fall flat. He's just already so ridiculous as himself
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Yeah most good comedians don't even bother. There's no reason to! It's also why SNL has sucked so bad since he became president. Every single joke is about him, but mostly just insulting things like making fun of the way he looks, or calling his son a retard, etc. It is so fucking lame.
They need more bipartisan comedy, IMO.
When people can laugh at each other, you're in a good place
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
do you see Asians, aboriginals or Hispanics using derogatory terms in their own culture that they're trying to leave in the past?
no, yet there's extensive oppression in each group also going back hundreds of years
you want it to be crystal clear then make it all or none...fuck double standards
using any racial slur is not a birth/skin colour right
Exactly, and since you are not of their colour, it's not your right to tell them they can't call themselves whatever they want either. Thank you for proving my point. There is no double standard here, it's a single standard. If you're not black, don't say or use the N word. So simple, how is that a double standard? I’m white and people of other ethnicities can’t call me a cracker or a honkey, I won’t let them get away with it, so where’s the double standard? The only reason it doesn’t seem so serious is because... cue captain obvious music... we’ve never been slaves! It’s derogatory but it doesn’t carry the weight of the N word. Not even close. So there’s isn’t a double standard at all, dont say derogatory words about another race that isn’t yours. One standard buddy! Is that too hard for you?
I mean look at what you’re arguing with your “all or none” bullshit, lol, it’s ridicuous, go stand in front of the mirror and say “I should be allowed to say n——- whenever I want because otherwise it’s unfair or a double standard!” and listen to how fucking ridiculous you sound! FFS.....
using capital letters made your argument much more valid!
and the Japanese populace was not treated like sub-human during interment and the atomic bomb?
do you hear them go or is there a similar equivalent of 'Japs please' in disbelief or 'myyy Japs' in their buddy's approval?
so because you deem one atrocity worse than the other, it becomes okay to standardize a disgusting word?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp
Do you even know what slavery means? It's a bit more than "extensive oppression"
It's fucking SLAVERY. These PEOPLE weren't even considered as being HUMAN.
This is hopeless
youre right i'm the one who sounds ridiculous
so next time when I get a phone call from fellow asians i'll be sure to answer with ching chong ling long ting tong but I'll vent on my vlog if some clueless blonde says it
the aboriginals can start calling each other chugs because of the "hardships they have faced and continue to face nowadays" but rage against anyone else who doesn't have status using that term...your rationale is fucking sound!!
can we just get some Morgan Freeman to interrupt you everytime you try to use reasoning?
Exactly, and since you are not of their colour, it's not your right to tell them they can't call themselves whatever they want either. Thank you for proving my point. There is no double standard here, it's a single standard. If you're not black, don't say or use the N word. So simple, how is that a double standard? I’m white and people of other ethnicities can’t call me a cracker or a honkey, I won’t let them get away with it, so where’s the double standard? The only reason it doesn’t seem so serious is because... cue captain obvious music... we’ve never been slaves! It’s derogatory but it doesn’t carry the weight of the N word. Not even close. So there’s isn’t a double standard at all, dont say derogatory words about another race that isn’t yours. One standard buddy! Is that too hard for you?
I mean look at what you’re arguing with your “all or none” bullshit, lol, it’s ridicuous, go stand in front of the mirror and say “I should be allowed to say n——- whenever I want because otherwise it’s unfair or a double standard!” and listen to how fucking ridiculous you sound! FFS.....
Does a Japanese person have to worry walking around in modern day society? Do you know any Japanese people in North America that get shot in the back or can't get work or get forced to live in what amounts to glorified refugee camps (ghettos / reserves) for hundreds of years generation after generation? Internment during a war isn't right, but it =/= a lifetime of oppression.
The fact you don't even know that indigenous people DO call each other by names within their own communities that they would consider racist if YOU said it to them shows how out of touch you are. Notice something in common between natives and blacks? They're the only 2 races that have suffered centuries of oppression by white people. Interesting huh? They'll stop talking about it within their own communities when white people stop oppressing them. Some might say they're both too fucked that it can't happen, maybe that's true, but who fucked them in the first place? You called it the standardization of a "disgusting" word....... bro... you just do not get it... it's not a disgusting word to THEM. See what happens when you stop thinking only from your own privileged perspective for a second? Wow.
It's painfully obvious to everyone thatou have ZERO firsthand knowledge of anything you're talking about, therefore everything you're saying is complete conjecture. Tell me I'm wrong? I know I'm not, because it's clear you've never immersed yourself in any of these cultures or spent any time in their squalor.
Wait... I'm psychic I can feel what you're thinking... why don't they just work harder like the Japnese or Chinese people that have been oppressed but succeeded now? Ever stop to look at the history? White people never oppressed any of these cultures at the source. White people never ran China, white people never controlled Japan... white people DO control Africa (and outside Africa, look who owns ALL the islands in the Caribbean that are full of black people servicing who?), white people DID invade North America and took indigenous people's way of life away from them. THAT is the difference, these people had their culture appropriated out from under them from the very origins of it. There's a microcosm of this even just within Asia where the Chinese oppress the Philippines and treat them as a slave culture to their wealthy. Starting to make sense now? Probably not, you're blind and you think you're not a part of it just because you've never personally done anything to anyone.
At the end of the day though, who are you to tell another race which words they can or can not use to communicate and identify with one another because it makes you uncomfortable and you don't get to use it too? Sounds like the definition of privilege to me.
so relevancy to modern issues/personal perception on the severity of atrocity to minorities becomes your guide for what constitutes racism and what doesn't?
if I'm understanding correctly, since head-tax was not life-long and those who suffered are mostly gone, I can start disrespecting those with similar genetic makeup as me and maybe their ancestors by calling them slant-eyed motherfuckers non-chalant?
it's tone-deaf for this forum to mock feminism and its hypocrisy yet feel it's perfectly okay to be desensitized/normalized by media that throws around the N-word and whether you can use it or not depends on your pigmentation
I try not to see colour and people can say whatever the fuck they want...just don't cry wolf when others post denzelWashingtontrainingday.jpg or belt out Kendrick's lyrics word for word
and you? did you grow up on the gritty streets on the south side of Chicago and fought among the Kamikaze pilots in Okinawa? how about you stop labeling me as privileged like some blind SJW? I have worked with the local indgenious population quite a bit in my spare time but I'm not gonna pretend to be some pundit on the matter who's lived in Willams lake for half my life but please continue guessing my exposure and background..the irony rather cute
either way we don't have to agree with each other
but you're really gonna try and be convincing that those are not double standards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68style
Does a Japanese person have to worry walking around in modern day society? Do you know any Japanese people in North America that get shot in the back or can't get work or get forced to live in what amounts to glorified refugee camps (ghettos / reserves) for hundreds of years generation after generation? Internment during a war isn't right, but it =/= a lifetime of oppression.
The fact you don't even know that indigenous people DO call each other by names within their own communities that they would consider racist if YOU said it to them shows how out of touch you are. Notice something in common between natives and blacks? They're the only 2 races that have suffered centuries of oppression by white people. Interesting huh? They'll stop talking about it within their own communities when white people stop oppressing them. Some might say they're both too fucked that it can't happen, maybe that's true, but who fucked them in the first place? You called it the standardization of a "disgusting" word....... bro... you just do not get it... it's not a disgusting word to THEM. See what happens when you stop thinking only from your own privileged perspective for a second? Wow.
It's painfully obvious to everyone thatou have ZERO firsthand knowledge of anything you're talking about, therefore everything you're saying is complete conjecture. Tell me I'm wrong? I know I'm not, because it's clear you've never immersed yourself in any of these cultures or spent any time in their squalor.
At the end of the day though, who are you to tell another race which words they can or can not use to communicate and identify with one another because it makes you uncomfortable and you don't get to use it too?
I know that you guys are slinging around terms trying to prove your respective points. I don't have an opinion either way with what you are debating about. But some of what I'm reading up there is touching a nerve.
Semi off-topic.... but if you look up "Unit 731" among the many more topics such as the Bataan Death March which covered several of the many many atrocities committed by the Japanese towards Americans, Filipinos, Chinese, Koreans, etc. during WWII, I'm sure you will realize that the Japanese were not "oppressed".
They were the oppressors. They treated anyone who was not Japanese as worse than human. As objects. Often inflicting brutal pain, humiliation, and torture.
I have zero doubt in my mind that, had the Japanese won the war or any significant part of the Pacific, this treatment would still be going on to this day. Even now there has been plenty of denial of WWII atrocities in high level politics. Many Japanese learn of what happened through their own research and not from schools... in Germany it is the exact opposite. Just my 0.02
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