Trump thread 2.0

[westopher]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

Well my wife is involved and that’s exactly how it is. Lol. Maybe not your department. This is municipal vs. federal. But she has led two departments as of recently after “waiting” for the head “city worker” to finally retire. As they have manipulatively held their position to do the least work, while protecting their position using the protections available. Whether withholding blackmail information for those above or otherwise. Literally just like the movies. Honestly hilarious. Once they retire new blood moves in and regenerates the departments. This is small scale, but I’m sure this doesn’t just happen on the municipal levels. It’s literally politics.

That sounds like most workplaces.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

K, I hear that private and public sectors both have 'fat' argument. Hell, we don't need to be so general, I'm sure most of us have a colleague or two that appears to live off the gravy train, can be more efficient and productive, takes every sick day/wellness day allowed (1 a month to go golfing). Given. What % of public vs. private is bloated ... I'm not competent to assess. If I'm siding on public sector being more bloated, I'm really just going by anecdotes and stereotypes. I've never worked in public sector but I have friends who went from private to public exactly for the stereotypical reasons - nice pension, nice union, they can't fire you, nice benefits, etc.

Are there hard working people in public sector, of course there are. Are there lazy people in private sectors, of course there are. But is there truth to the fact that generally, public sector is more bloated than private? Ultimately you be the judge of that.

I think it depends? As we've seen with DOGE so far the "fraud" they have uncovered isn't fraud, it's stuff they disagree with spending money on (like park rangers or ebola prevention. ha!). I think there can a reasonable debate on the value of certain programs that the govt runs BUT there are so many of them and so much complexity/nuance with some of them that the reality is that it's not the place of the average citizen to have that debate (We vote for a set of values and the policies should reflect those values). As a result I think when Conservatives get angry and call stuff "waste" they should be just be honest and say they don't like services that help minorities or they don't think it's the gov't problem that poor people can't get health care and die. Just be honest about what they really think.

As for the workers themselves I have many friends who work in the public sector including my wife - some of them work very hard (like my Director pal in immigration and his enforcement officer wife) while others don't and I regularly hear about people not being very busy. When I did a 1.5y long contract stint at SFU I had virtually nothing to do for the last 6 months and my boss was not the least bit concerned about it (I kept asking for work). I've heard and seen lots of private sector folks not doing much as well though but on the whole I'd say public sector is definitely more "relaxed" on average.

I think the last part that gets people's goat is compensation and benefits in the public sector. Yes, you can earn way more in the private sector if you're in the right space (like tech or finance) but on average the benefits of being in public sector are dramatically better. I have always earned 2-3x as much as my wife and despite maxing out my RRSP (and investing it well) her pension will be worth more than my RRSP - it's incredible - her pension is why I'm sorta semi-retired right now.

BUT gov't workers tend to be better educated than most and shouldn't gov't's responsibility be to set a high standard for how they compensate workers? Shouldn't private sector companies we shamed for not doing the same (like they do in Europe?)? I think we compare ourselves too much to Americans here when we should compare ourselves to Europeans. When I worked at (slave driving) Amazon I had to work with some teams in Europe and those folks give no fucks - they were all off in August no matter the project deadline. They didn't give a shit about Bezos' idea of working 80 hour weeks.

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Am I beginning to sound like a conservative? Or a centre lib?

I think it's fair to question gov't no matter where you reside on the political spectrum. I'm just against the way folks like Honda rail against things. Let's have debate on our values and then how those values play out in policy and actions.

[hud 91gt]

A family member owned an engineering firm which won a major contract for the Vancouver sky train. He quoted a contract at 1.4million (this was 20-30 years ago or so). A partner said it’s government, quote it at $5 million…. This is the shit that is insane. Saying that, that happens in every industry with lack of competition.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by supafamous

As a result I think when Conservatives get angry and call stuff "waste" they should be just be honest and say they don't like services that help minorities or they don't think it's the gov't problem that poor people can't get health care and die. Just be honest about what they really think.

With the current crop of right wing Conservatives (and their nutjob far right associates), we have a better chance of winning the lottery than having them come clean on why they want to cut those programs.

I think the last part that gets people's goat is compensation and benefits in the public sector. Yes, you can earn way more in the private sector if you're in the right space (like tech or finance) but on average the benefits of being in public sector are dramatically better. I have always earned 2-3x as much as my wife and despite maxing out my RRSP (and investing it well) her pension will be worth more than my RRSP - it's incredible - her pension is why I'm sorta semi-retired right now.

In both your case and in general, I don't think we should use our own RRSP contributions to compare against a public sector pension though. In your wife's case, her public sector pension is literally the gold standard among pensions, and her salary compared to comparable positions in the private sector would probably be lower. On the other hand, your higher private sector salary would allow you to set aside more money beyond your RRSP contributions to help you plan for your retirement (and I'm sure you're already doing that).

[supafamous]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/polit...trump-trudeau/

White House official threatens to redraw Canadian border
Peter Navarro is pushing negotiators to discuss reworking country’s boundaries, The Telegraph can reveal

We get Point Roberts and in exchange they get Wayne Gretzky and Kevin O'Leary?

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

A family member owned an engineering firm which won a major contract for the Vancouver sky train. He quoted a contract at 1.4million (this was 20-30 years ago or so). A partner said it’s government, quote it at $5 million…. This is the shit that is insane. Saying that, that happens in every industry with lack of competition.

looking at the other side of the coin as devil's advocate...

if it's a competitive bidding format, it is what it is and goes to the lowest bidder, regardless if the lowest bidder puts their price 5x.

also gov has a lot of red tape, policies, procedures to be followed, and has certain types of risk to be mitigated. is it 5x? - that is subjective.

in some cases if you see contractural terms & conditions of some public works, they want to mitigate risk so much the bidders just pad that in to their cost.

[whitev70r]

Speaking of ... private sector is not just personal RRSP, right? Most have a you contribute 5% and company contribute 5% or some variation of it. Then you are socking away 10% and you can top up on your personal DIY RRSP.

In the public sector, I've seen something like you contribute 4%, they contribute 6% ...

But I do know teachers and nurses can prob retire, earlier than most, hit their max pension by the time they are like late 50's or 60's.

[Hakkaboy]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Speaking of ... private sector is not just personal RRSP, right? Most have a you contribute 5% and company contribute 5% or some variation of it. Then you are socking away 10% and you can top up on your personal DIY RRSP.

In the public sector, I've seen something like you contribute 4%, they contribute 6% ...

But I do know teachers and nurses can prob retire, earlier than most, hit their max pension by the time they are like late 50's or 60's.

Please tell me where you work that has 5% RRSP matching! Asking for a friend.

[EDIT] Oops, nvm, 5% is fairly standard nowadays...

[Great68]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

A family member owned an engineering firm which won a major contract for the Vancouver sky train. He quoted a contract at 1.4million (this was 20-30 years ago or so). A partner said it’s government, quote it at $5 million…. This is the shit that is insane. Saying that, that happens in every industry with lack of competition.

As someone who quotes work to the Governments (both federal and provincial) I can say that's bullshit.

Every bid is ultra competitive, there's no arbitrarily tacking on an extra 300% "because it's government". I'd never win a job.

[hud 91gt]

I guess you weren’t employed then. Lol.

I realize you’re getting defensive, and I’m picking one off scenarios. I’m also aware parts of the government are very cut throat, and some stuff won’t slide. The fact of the matter is, there are major inefficiencies within the system, and it’s hard to get that culture out of it. It goes as simple as ordering the latest iPhone for your office worker vs. a unit a couple years old. Twice the price, same job. Will firing. Everyone help that? No, but you can’t tell me there are not more efficient ways to run the place. Budgets are put in place. You use your budget or you lose it. That’s common knowledge. You have excessive budget? It gets taken away (as it should), but the oversight is lacking in many areas.

[HonestTea]

Looks like tariffs are starting next week now instead of April 2nd? lol

[pastarocket]

-good to see some high profile Americans stand up for Canada:

Team Canada's men's soccer coach Jesse Marsch. Gretzky could learn something from Coach Marsch haha.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/26/sport...spt/index.html

“Canada is a strong, independent nation that is deep-rooted in decency, really, and it’s a place that values high ethics and respect,” Marsch said.

“Unlike the polarized, disrespectful and often hate-fueled climate in the US, Canada values fairness and unity. It’s a place – that I’ve learned as the national team coach – where people believe that their differences make them stronger,” Marsch said.

“For me, right now, I couldn’t be prouder to be the Canadian national team head coach and I found a place that embodies the ideals and morals of not just what football is but what life is - that’s integrity, respect, and the belief that good people can do great things together,” Marsch said.

“If I have one message to our president, it’s lay off the ridiculous rhetoric about Canada being the 51st state. As an American, I’m ashamed of the arrogance and disregard that we’ve shown one of our historically oldest, strongest and most loyal allies.”

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

OK ... so here's a small counterpoint, not saying I like what Musk is doing BUT we ALL know government is inefficient, bloated, and have a certain kind of lazy entitled culture. So, tightening government departments is something that I would think most of us would agree on, after all, we joke about it's lazy ass culture. Let's just look at our Canadian government, forget the US for a moment.

But I suppose it would be the way to 'trim the fat' from public sector and to create a better working culture. Not the cut throat way that Musk is doing it in the US.

Hehe did not put me up to say this.

As someone new to government work, but with previous experience in a small business and my own businesses, I'd definitely say that government is mind numbingly slow, inefficient and there's a lot of redundant departments. I think it's due to funds oversight, so they just keep opening new organizations to focus on subsets of mandates.

Why is there a Trade & Invest BC, Invest BC, Innovate BC, and InvestVancouver via Metro Van? It's like using M365 and finding out there are 4 apps that manage your to-do list. WHY?

Government oversight is important when it comes to ensuring that public funds are all accounted for. OTOH, it also creates a bunch of roadblocks for "out of scope" work so they make entirely new orgs with mandates that basically ensure that it's within scope. For example, I'm currently working on a BC based initiative that can't be funded by the Province of BC because the non-profit I work for is an organization with national mandates.

However, what DOGE seems to be doing for Elon is removing government oversight and keeping all the yes-men, so he can do whatever he wants without consequence. BTW, AKA CHINA.

[pastarocket]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

As someone new to government work, but with previous experience in a small business and my own businesses, I'd definitely say that government is mind numbingly slow, inefficient and there's a lot of redundant departments. I think it's due to funds oversight, so they just keep opening new organizations to focus on subsets of mandates.

Why is there a Trade & Invest BC, Invest BC, Innovate BC, and InvestVancouver via Metro Van? It's like using M365 and finding out there are 4 apps that manage your to-do list. WHY?

Government oversight is important when it comes to ensuring that public funds are all accounted for. OTOH, it also creates a bunch of roadblocks for "out of scope" work so they make entirely new orgs with mandates that basically ensure that it's within scope. For example, I'm currently working on a BC based initiative that can't be funded by the Province of BC because the non-profit I work for is an organization with national mandates.

However, what DOGE seems to be doing for Elon is removing government oversight and keeping all the yes-men, so he can do whatever he wants without consequence. BTW, AKA CHINA.

I think that what Musk is doing with DOGE is more than just removing government oversight and regulations.

We see clear conflicts of interest when he complains about Verizon having a 2 billion plus contract with the Federal Aviation Administration to upgrade to a new air traffic control system. Of course, this fucking Nazi wants his Starlink company to get a government contract so that he profits even more with Starlink getting a project to upgrade the air traffic control system for the entire American airspace.

Things don't work that way in the government or in the private sector.

I'm sure that Musk realizes that Verizon would come down hard on the American government with a lawsuit for breach of contract. Verizon signed this contract the U.S. government about two years ago. You cannot just back out of a contract. A lawsuit from a potential breach of contract would wind up in the American court system for years.

Elon is probably gonna ask Trump to give him a contract for Starlink so that he can profit from a contract to upgrade the air traffic control system for small, non international flight airports in Alaska and other states.

He and his cronies are probably going through every government contract with contractors to find areas where his companies can take business away from another contractor.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by Great68

As someone who quotes work to the Governments (both federal and provincial) I can say that's bullshit.

Every bid is ultra competitive, there's no arbitrarily tacking on an extra 300% "because it's government". I'd never win a job.

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

I guess you weren’t employed then. Lol.

I thought the key to winning a government bid is to submit something low and then let it automatically overrun 5x. $10M bid easily becomes $50M when it's done. Can anyone say Fast Cats? Now BC Ferries is thinking of building a fleet of 5 Electric ships ... can't wait.

[Great68]

I wish. I only get money if scope is changed, added, or was never properly defined (by the design team). Banking on "bid low and make money on changes" is a huge gamble, and makes for massive animosity over the course of the project.

The fast ferries were never a "bid-spec" contract. No private shipbuilder was interested. BC Ferries created a new crown corp for themselves to (Catamaran Ferries International) and built them on a cost-plus basis.

[68style]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

You use your budget or you lose it. That’s common knowledge. You have excessive budget? It gets taken away (as it should), but the oversight is lacking in many areas.

WRONG WRONG WRONG... you should just stop spreading false facts.

Ask your wife if she ever heard of a carry forward? Or maybe clarify that you're talking about whatever CITY she specifically works for if that's where your information is coming from since they are also not all the same.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

I think that what Musk is doing with DOGE is more than just removing government oversight and regulations.

We see clear conflicts of interest when he complains about Verizon having a 2 billion plus contract with the Federal Aviation Administration to upgrade to a new air traffic control system. Of course, this fucking Nazi wants his Starlink company to get a government contract so that he profits even more with Starlink getting a project to upgrade the air traffic control system for the entire American airspace.

Yeah. Remove government oversight and regulations... so that the US can be an Elon nation lol. That's kind what I was alluding to there. No one can call him out on the conflict of interest if well.. everyone's removed.

I also forgot to add that our government, at least in BC and Global Affairs Canada, does have quite a lot of resources for business owners in Canada. They're really not good at communicating it tho. Seems like RevYouUp and Whitev70r think that I'm on their team - while I agree that government can be inefficient, with the examples I named, they actually do quite a lot of work and everyone is very aware and mindful of public funds being spent properly. I'm of the opinion that there's a bit too much oversight creating more inefficiencies. Hell, we can't even get catering funded. If you go to a government branded event and there's food that you recognize from Costco, it's likely out of the Project Manager's own pocket.

[68style]

Name me a private company that you can go to the LIBRARY and put in an information request for all their financial data on literally any spending of funds and see what happened with all the money.

Whether you understand it let alone agree with it or not when you get it is beside the point, likely wouldn't, but the fact it can be done at all is a victory for responsibility. Is anything perfect? No far from it, but if you want to you can DO something about it or at least investigate it. Anyone can.

This does not exist in the private sector. Imagine if you could ask Rogers where your massive cell phone bill $ goes? Yah right.

[westopher]

Don't need to look it up. 40 million of it goes into the CEOs pockets then another hundred goes into shareholder dividends. I'd rather 60 million dollars of taxpayer money gets pissed away (not saying it does) to pay unqualified people (not saying they are) making 80-100k and supporting their families than going into the pockets of some rich fucks trying to buy our government to make it easier to gouge Canadians anyways. So if they are doing the work and they are qualified it makes it even easier to make that choice.
Anyone who thinks the government is fucking them and corporations aren't have CTE.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

while I agree that government can be inefficient, with the examples I named, they actually do quite a lot of work and everyone is very aware and mindful of public funds being spent properly. I'm of the opinion that there's a bit too much oversight creating more inefficiencies. Hell, we can't even get catering funded. If you go to a government branded event and there's food that you recognize from Costco, it's likely out of the Project Manager's own pocket.

This is so true - gov't can't even buy their staff dinner for a Xmas party for fear that some (nut job) taxpayer will lose their shit over the perks they get. I hear my gov't friends talk about this a lot - everything is scrutinised by someone and that someone doesn't care about reason or nuance. Meanwhile I recall spending $3300USD for 10 people to have steaks in Chicago on a business trip in 2015 and no one batted an eye - SFU, OTOH, wouldn't let me expense the beer I had in Helsinki while on business.

Maybe to clarify a point or maybe expand the topic - I think "gov't" means different things to different people. Do you think of BC Ferries, Translink, BC Hydro and ICBC as "gov't" or as "public sector"? It's easy to criticise federal and provincial gov'ts as they cover so much territory and are so far away but when I look at our local public sector agencies I see mostly well run organisations dealing with challenging problems (lack of resources, funding, aging infrastructure, constant unwarranted criticism). Try doing your private sector job when anyone can go to the news about the work you do and every expense report is fodder for the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation.

[westopher]

lol that Canadian taxpayer federation fuckin wiener on the news is the biggest pussy. He's the perfect stereotype of the libertarian douchebag that probably wouldn't be able to cook a meal for himself once he moves out of his moms basement.

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by 68style

WRONG WRONG WRONG... you should just stop spreading false facts.

Ask your wife if she ever heard of a carry forward? Or maybe clarify that you're talking about whatever CITY she specifically works for if that's where your information is coming from since they are also not all the same.

I don’t know how you can say it’s misinformation if it’s true. Just as you said, different places may have different policies.

You can’t deny, even if one does have this carry over, I assume everything is under scrutiny if you are consistently under budget. Thus going back to square 1. Don’t go under budget.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by supafamous

This is so true - gov't can't even buy their staff dinner for a Xmas party for fear that some (nut job) taxpayer will lose their shit over the perks they get. I hear my gov't friends talk about this a lot - everything is scrutinised by someone and that someone doesn't care about reason or nuance. Meanwhile I recall spending $3300USD for 10 people to have steaks in Chicago on a business trip in 2015 and no one batted an eye - SFU, OTOH, wouldn't let me expense the beer I had in Helsinki while on business.

Maybe to clarify a point or maybe expand the topic - I think "gov't" means different things to different people. Do you think of BC Ferries, Translink, BC Hydro and ICBC as "gov't" or as "public sector"? It's easy to criticise federal and provincial gov'ts as they cover so much territory and are so far away but when I look at our local public sector agencies I see mostly well run organisations dealing with challenging problems (lack of resources, funding, aging infrastructure, constant unwarranted criticism). Try doing your private sector job when anyone can go to the news about the work you do and every expense report is fodder for the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation.

Yep, I have a few friends that work for CoV. Their Xmas party? Team members paid out of their own pocket, on their own time LOL

I personally don't see public crown corps as government work, tho I've never worked in those orgs. From friends' accounts, it sounds like they're a lot more lenient on expensing things than the actual muni/provincial/federal gov bodies and the org is structured more like a privately corp.

Here's another example of making sure money is spent appropriately.

Private companies can use the CRA's prescribed rate for kilometric write-offs - the prescribed rate is a lot higher ($0.72 for first 5000km, then $0.66 following) than what the National Council says I can expense ($0.60/km).

https://www.njc-cnm.gc.ca/s3/en

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[hud 91gt]

The scrutiny is also why there is abuse. Everything is under a microscope so people will do everything in their power not to give up what they worked so hard to get in the first place.

What is motivating someone to decrease their spending? Do they get a bonus? No. Possible movement upwards in the hierarchy? Sure. So what about those who don’t want to move up, who are content in their position. Do they try and save money, making their next year possibly more difficult after a budget cut? Cringing at the thought of writing more letters to council to convince them to get more funding? Absolutely not. Of course, they may get a dinner bought for them out of someone’s pocket. It’s a broken system, but hey maybe I’m wrong.