New ICBC Rates: Who Will Pay More?

[320icar]

Originally Posted by underscore

I meant the digital ones, I think it's the Matrix and Corolla that can top out at 3xx km.

Correct. I see it all the time, they lock out at 299,999km. People get pissed when I tell them they don’t get a mileage warranty on their tires because there’s no way to verify

[Acura604]

https://theprovince.com/news/politic...7-d242e7f892fc

VICTORIA — B.C. motorists who might occasionally let a friend or family member drive their vehicle will need to pay a new $50 fee on their basic auto insurance next year or face the risk of large penalties if the borrower crashes.

The “unlisted driver protection” fee is a little-known part of the overhaul at the Insurance Corp. of B.C. that government announced in August and will take effect in September, 2019.

The changes are touted as a way to pull the Crown insurance agency out of its financial crisis. But critics say the driver protection plan is one example of several rate hikes masquerading as hidden fees that most drivers will feel pressured to pay out of caution or confusion.

“If your vehicle is involved in a crash caused by an unlisted driver and you didn’t have the unlisted driver protection, there will be a financial consequence,” ICBC’s Adam Grossman said in a statement. “We need to ensure that the right incentives exist and, more importantly, that all drivers aren’t paying for the decisions that individuals make about who they lend their vehicle to.”

The $50 annual protection plan would apply to anyone who intends to lend their vehicle out fewer than 12 times a year to family members, friends, neighbours, acquaintances or co-workers — for example, if you lent someone your truck to help them move. If an owner doesn’t buy the extra protection, and then someone with a worse safety record than the owner crashes their vehicle, ICBC would hit the owner with a steep fine. Anyone who might drive that vehicle more than a dozen times in a year must be explicitly listed on the insurance and their driving record will be considered in calculating premiums.

The surcharge is one of several new levies that motorists will face next year when insuring their vehicle with ICBC, which has a monopoly on basic auto insurance.

Attorney General David Eby has said the changes are intended to increase rates for the riskiest drivers while providing savings for those with safer records. He has said 39 per cent of ICBC customers could have rates fall by up to $50, 13 per cent by between $50 and $100, and 15 per cent by more than $100. However, those reductions are based on 2018 rates and could be wiped out by ICBC’s new fees and any rate hike for basic insurance in 2019.

Families, in particular those that have a teenager or new driver trying to obtain a driver’s licence for the first time, appear to be particularly hard hit under the new rules.

An average family with a basic insurance rate of $1,094 this year could pay almost $200 more next year for the same vehicle, reflecting what ICBC says is the increased crash risk of young drivers.

“All of this adds up to a pretty steep rate increase that David Eby is trying to hide,” said Opposition Liberal leader Andrew Wilkinson. “It sounds like David Eby’s newborn ICBC is going to be a whole bunch of flat rate fees with no real relationship to risk.”

All vehicle owners will soon be required by ICBC to list everyone who may drive their vehicle after September 2019, including spouses, children and other relatives (any friends or neighbours who will drive it more than 12 times a year).

ICBC’s new 2019 rate structure will mean the principal operator (say a parent with a lengthy clean driving record) will only account for 75 per cent of how ICBC sets the insurance premium on that vehicle. The highest-risk driver on the list (say a teenager) will be used by ICBC to calculate the remaining 25 per cent of the rate.

ICBC also plans to levy a new learner premium for drivers who must use the red ‘L’ signs, of between $130 and $230 annually, depending on where you live in B.C., to “recognize the risk that a learner driver represents.”

A crash by a learner would not affect the premium of the vehicle owner, or the learner’s driving record, according to ICBC. But once that learner graduates to a full licence, their risk would increase insurance rates for a parent who lets them drive the family vehicle.

Eby has said the insurance changes are intended to reform ICBC, prevent massive rate hikes and help it recover from a $1.3-billion loss last year. But Wilkinson said Eby has simply masked rate hikes on good drivers by calling them flat fees.

Eby was not available for an interview, and questions were redirected to ICBC.

Example 1: In this scenario, Erica is the principal driver and owner of a car. Her husband Stephen and daughter Jennifer also drive the car. While Erica’s basic insurance premium will go down by $31 in 2019 because of her clean record, she will have to pay $225 in a new “learner premium” to have Jennifer continue to drive the family car with her learner’s licence and red L sign. That means an overall basic insurance hike of $194 in 2019, compared to 2018. Because she’s a learner, Jennifer’s driving record isn’t used to calculate any part of her mother’s basic insurance premium.

Example 2: This scenario is similar to the previous one, but Jennifer has now passed the graduated licensing program, has obtained her driver’s licence and has driven three years without a crash. She’s still using her mother’s car. ICBC’s new 2019 rate rules will mean a $134 rate increase for Erica. This is because ICBC’s new rules consider Erica’s clean crash history for only 75 per cent of the premium, and Jennifer’s higher-risk history for the remaining 25 per cent. Stephen can continue to drive, too. ICBC says the “changes are about increasing fairness, so if Jennifer is driving Erica’s vehicle, the premium needs to reflect the higher risk.”

Example 4: Jennifer has moved out, got her own car and is out of the picture. Erica and Stephen’s insurance has dropped back down. But, they lend their car to their neighbour Mike, who has a worse driving record than they do, with a previous crash. Erica could purchase the new $50 “unlisted driver protection” or explicitly list Mike on her premium and pay a higher rate. But she decides to do neither and just risk loaning him the car. Mike crashes the car and is at fault. ICBC’s new 2019 rules could allow it to fine Erica up to $1,275.

[twitchyzero]

what about Turo owners?

[mb_]

Where's example 3? Damn ICBC hiding stuff

[underscore]

My biggest concern with this plan is the potential increase in things like drunk driving. If someone forgot to get the insurance they can't let a sober friend drive their car home instead, so they're more likely to drink and drive.

What do they mean by "12 times a year" though? Is that per person using it or total? And what counts as a "time"? Any day they drive it on, or any person they drive it that's made up of consecutive days (ie borrowing it for a week while their car is being fixed)? Does this include mechanics, valets, etc driving your car? Even someone moving your car to get another one out of the driveway would require this. I just can't imagine anyone could safely say that absolutely nobody will ever drive their car at all.

[Traum]

I find it extraordinarily funny that the Liberals' Wilkinson has the guts (and the thick hide) to come out and bark at the changes that NDP and Eby are implementing now. The Liberals were the ones that left ICBC in the financial ruins that it is in now. Does they seriously think there is still any sort of moral high ground they can stand on to criticize what NDP / Eby is doing to salvage the situation?

As far as I can see, Eby seems to be factoring out a number of different higher risks situations/causes from the general driver pool, and then charging people separately for them. In doing so, the low risk drivers get to enjoy a slightly cheaper rate, and drivers can optionally choose for themselves to see whether they want to pay extra to enjoy a bit of convenience. This approach seem very much like something private insurance would do, except that I think the 25% portion of insurance premium calculation is probably cheaper than what a private insurance company would have charged.

The unlisted driver thing is a real PITA, but at least it can be waived away with a $50 solution. And even if a vehicle owner chooses to not pay for that and his car gets into an accident with an unlisted driver, it sounds like ICBC will still honour the insurance coverage (which is the important thing), even though it'll slap the vehicle owner with a hefty fine.

The most disappointing thing about this ICBC reform is -- there still isn't any provisions for people with multiple vehicles to enjoy some reduced insurance premiums. If we are already going by the insurance-tied-to-driver model, then obviously only 1 driver can drive a single vehicle at any given time!!! So why not give us a break on our 2nd, 3rd, etc. vehicles?

[Jmac]

There is a <5000 km/year discount

[Koflach]

Originally Posted by underscore

My biggest concern with this plan is the potential increase in things like drunk driving. If someone forgot to get the insurance they can't let a sober friend drive their car home instead, so they're more likely to drink and drive.

What do they mean by "12 times a year" though? Is that per person using it or total? And what counts as a "time"? Any day they drive it on, or any person they drive it that's made up of consecutive days (ie borrowing it for a week while their car is being fixed)? Does this include mechanics, valets, etc driving your car? Even someone moving your car to get another one out of the driveway would require this. I just can't imagine anyone could safely say that absolutely nobody will ever drive their car at all.

The drinking and driving thing is a very valid point but i'm fairly sure that valet's and mechanics carry their own insurance that would cover your vehicle while they are in it.

[fliptuner]

Originally Posted by Traum

The most disappointing thing about this ICBC reform is -- there still isn't any provisions for people with multiple vehicles to enjoy some reduced insurance premiums. If we are already going by the insurance-tied-to-driver model, then obviously only 1 driver can drive a single vehicle at any given time!!! So why not give us a break on our 2nd, 3rd, etc. vehicles?

Yup. Greedy as fuck. That's why all my eligible cars are getting modified/collector plates. I know a few provinces issue a single plate for multiple cars. That's what we need.

[MarkyMark]

The drunk driving thing doesn't really add up to me. If you're in that position you'd rather risk all the bullshit that comes along with getting caught driving drunk, or worse yet crashing into someone while drunk, instead of letting a sober friend drive your car and risk up to a $1275 fine in the unlikely event that they crash?

Fuck if you have the money to go out and get wasted I think you can afford the $50 a year to be covered for that situation.

[bomberR17]

I'm pretty sure everyone is going to pay the $50 fee just to not worry about it. They priced it at $50 so people don't think it's a huge cost. Sneaky way to eliminate the $50-100 savings good drivers get under the new rules.

[The Producer]

should only have to pay this fee once regardless of how many vehicles you have.

this is yet another cash grab. they did the same thing when they changed underinsured motorist protection from one policy to per vehicle.

sometimes I just want to sell all my shit and go back to a single vehicle. I get so sick of the sheer number of times I have to deal w ICBC over anything.

I think the drunk driving aspect is a legit beef. we've had it hammered into our brains for years to arrange a DD. Putting any barrier regardless of how small in the way of doing that will make at least some people take an unnecessary risk.

[Nlkko]

More cash grab from an already-expensive insurance provider. Mask it with a "reducing premium for safe drivers" narrative. It's 2.5% hike on a 2k annual premium. Imagine if they just come out and say "we're hiking y'all 2.5%". This is a cute way of avoiding the backlash.

This is the problem with monopoly. Prepare to bend over for an incoming another $50 fee on "__________" next year.

[TypeRNammer]

Well, I just my renewal notice for my 2017 Subaru WRX which I don't have any more.

1 million liability
1000 collision
300 comprehensive
Uninsured motorist protection

With a full discount, it would of an annual cost of $3,000

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by TypeRNammer

Well, I just my renewal notice for my 2017 Subaru WRX which I don't have any more.

1 million liability
1000 collision
300 comprehensive
Uninsured motorist protection

With a full discount, it would of an annual cost of $3,000

What was it last year?

[Jmac]

Mine went from $1317 last year and $1330 the year before to $1435 this year (max discount, no claims, tickets, or points in 19 years of driving). A 9% increase

[320icar]

Wow great job Icbc of lowering insurance for good drivers. Can’t wait to see what mine is come December

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by TypeRNammer

Well, I just my renewal notice for my 2017 Subaru WRX which I don't have any more.

1 million liability
1000 collision
300 comprehensive
Uninsured motorist protection

With a full discount, it would of an annual cost of $3,000

a million 3rd party!? hory shit, i run with 5 million cuz im scared i might hit a van full of lawyers or some kinda chinese heiress in richmond. A million is risky as fuck brah.

[TypeRNammer]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

What was it last year?

Last year it was 2800 bucks, for the upcoming renewal would of been 3000

Originally Posted by Badhobz

a million 3rd party!? hory shit, i run with 5 million cuz im scared i might hit a van full of lawyers or some kinda chinese heiress in richmond. A million is risky as fuck brah.

Yeah silly me, I should of put more. But don't have the car any more. Family whip has a higher 3rd party liability

[Traum]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think AG Eby's newly revised rate plans have come into effect yet?

If that's the case, TypeRNammer is still getting charged based on the previous ICBC rate hike from the year before, and the average increase from that last hike was ~5%.

Originally Posted by TypeRNammer

Well, I just my renewal notice for my 2017 Subaru WRX which I don't have any more.

1 million liability
1000 collision
300 comprehensive
Uninsured motorist protection

With a full discount, it would of an annual cost of $3,000

[Jmac]

The new ICBC rate logic starts September 2019 IIRC.

[320icar]

So they’re doing the tactics that department stores used to do before the advent of internet on phones. Spend a few weeks hiking up the price of a blender, then put it for sale 30% off. But it’s just back to what it used to be lol

[Traum]

Originally Posted by 320icar

So they’re doing the tactics that department stores used to do before the advent of internet on phones. Spend a few weeks hiking up the price of a blender, then put it for sale 30% off. But it’s just back to what it used to be lol

LOL~ That's a cynical way of looking at the ICBC premiums, but I am not at all surprised people might think that way.

It is completely false that ICBC is jacking the rates up now so that they can lower it back down later and make it seem like we're getting a bargain. The current rates (eg. the higher premiums that TypeRNammer is paying compared to last year) are decided on last year when ICBC was still in its financial dumpster fire mode, and was losing money badly. Under the previous dumpster fire model, the premium increases were needed to keep the game of musical chairs from imploding right away.

Honestly when it comes to vehicle operating costs, at the moment I am far more upset about the ridiculous gas prices than I am with ICBC rates.

[Badhobz]

Imma gonna try that less than 5k a year thingy on my Vespa. Current insurance is 323 dollars a year

God damn I love my little red rocket. Did I mention it only needs 4l of gas to go almost 200kms ?!?!?

[Jmac]

What about the Maserati?