PSA: VPD Handing Out VIs Like Candy

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by DaJo

Who was the smart person thinking this will all blow over? Lol

Jasonturbo.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[trollface]

To be fair, that BMW is clearly in violation of the reflector part of the MVA. There is nothing to argue about.

[68style]

^
I agree, however as mentioned many many times in this thread... why? There's so many laws being broken every day that they don't bother to enforce... what danger to the public was there in that situation? Is he that bored? What's his actual job anymore? I really question this use of taxpayer dollars and what the resulting increase in safety is.

I mean sure, pull over a bunch of hoopties with string holding bumpers on or broken/burnt out lights or slammed with 2cm of contact on the inner edge of tires... but brand new BMW with clear corners? Please............

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by DaJo

Who was the smart person thinking this will all blow over? Lol

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

Jasonturbo.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Well I'm sure it will get better soon if people keep posting comments online suggesting the VPD/Cain are incompetent and don't understand the law etc.

My advice (Not that anyone asked) is to give up and leave it alone, RS should lock/archive/delete this thread and prevent future discussion on the subject until things settle down. It is reasonable to assume that some VPD members are aware of this thread and are likely not pleased by some of the comments made by forum users. I suspect there is a direct relationship between bitching and being targeted... try bitching less (Not at all) and see if that helps.

I didn't say this would blow over, I merely offered an alternative pathway to a potentially favorable outcome.

Having said that, I regret my earlier statement. I have seen the light - The laws are flawed, the VPD is incompetent, and a group of automotive enthusiasts engaging in meaningful online dialogue can stimulate intelligent policy change and more effective independent oversight of the VPD.

[trollface]

Originally Posted by 68style

^
I agree, however as mentioned many many times in this thread... why? There's so many laws being broken every day that they don't bother to enforce... what danger to the public was there in that situation? Is he that bored? What's his actual job anymore? I really question this use of taxpayer dollars and what the resulting increase in safety is.

I mean sure, pull over a bunch of hoopties with string holding bumpers on or broken/burnt out lights or slammed with 2cm of contact on the inner edge of tires... but brand new BMW with clear corners? Please............

Easy to enforce. I mean, I'd rather do VI's then fight bums with PCP strength stealing bikes if they paid the same. Have you seen dudes with PCP strength?

[fliptuner]

Are they stronger than deaf people?

[trollface]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

Are they stronger than deaf people?

I could take Ann Frank.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by trollface

I could take Ann Frank.

You mean Helen Keller?

[trollface]

Originally Posted by 320icar

You mean Helen Keller?

You're right. But no, she's jacked af.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

I didn't say this would blow over, I merely offered an alternative pathway to a potentially favorable outcome.



Having said that, I regret my earlier statement. I have seen the light - The laws are flawed, the VPD is incompetent, and a group of automotive enthusiasts engaging in meaningful online dialogue can stimulate intelligent policy change and more effective independent oversight of the VPD.

Hey Jason, while I got you here:

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

My first run in with the VPD in a very very long time.

So I was driving my Huracan in DT on the Saturday and there were two bike cops who had a limo bus pulled over. So I'm chilling at the lights and one of the of the cops comes over and tells me to roll my window down. Here's how the convo went down:

Cop: Just a heads up, if we hear your exhaust from a block away you're going to receive a ticket.

Me: Ok but I don't rev my engine so it's not going to be an issue.

Cop: Well I know all the modes in these cars and if you have it in sport mode and I can hear it I will ticket you.

Me: Ok but it's a stock exhaust which meets the federal requirements so how can you ticket me for a stock exhaust even if I drive in sport mode?

Cop: Well I can find a way(?)

Me: Find a way? How? I'll just dispute the ticket and prove to the judge the exhaust is stock.

Cop: I'm just telling you don't make noise, I don't want to hear your exhaust. I've ticketed your buddies and I will ticket you.

Me: My buddies? How do you know who my buddies are? I laugh. And what do you mean "don't make noise". Of course my car is going to make a noise but it's within the legal requirements.

Cop after a long pause: Provincial laws are different and we can ticket you. I'm a nice guy to give you a heads up, take my advice. Maybe you should stay out of DT. Have another call, good day.

Originally Posted by 320icar

Can’t wait to see how jasonturbo defends the cops actions

'


cricket.. cricket..

[320icar]

Whoa don’t drag me into this lol

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

Hey Jason, while I got you here:

cricket.. cricket..

The provincial regulations being enforced by the VPD are quite clear, maximum noise level for cars is 84db, if the exhaust on the Huracan can be measured as making a noise >84db then it is not compliant with the regulations.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...8/page-14.html

It's worth noting that Federal and Provincial permissible vehicle noise levels are very much aligned.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ibels/?slide=8

Huracan measured at 95db (In cabin)

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/l...st-111675.html

Huracan measured at 109db

The web is also littered with threads where Huracan owners have been kicked off tracks for the stock exhausts putting out >100db of noise.

So then, it seems fairly safe to say that the Huracan is capable of producing a noise >84db.

I'll also suggest that it is highly unlikely that Transport Canada performs any independent testing of vehicle noise levels to verify compliance to the regulations. TC most likely relies on broad certifying statements from vehicle manufactures that state the vehicle satisfies all Canadian standards etc. It seems to me that some people assume that every make/model delivered to Canada is put up on rollers and tested by TC for noise levels, this is clearly not the case.

I hope you are satisfied with my response.

[toyota86]

A lot of "high decibel reading" exhausts on new cars are dealer installed before it leaves the lot. These "port" installed accessories are there to pad the price of the car and make the numbers look good for the dealership. It gives parts something to sell, it gives service something to install. The customer may or may not see the full breakdown upon purchase. This is usually less noticeable for buyers of expensive luxury cars for various reasons. Most people who walk into a dealership to buy a new car won't question if a new car is street legal. It is assumed that it is because it is "stock".

It is similar to the situation where a brand new car with no owner gets damaged. Lets say it fell off the hoist. Shop insurance pays for the repairs. The car is sold as having no accidents and clean title. No record of any damage. If something was indeed not put together right, the dealer will try to claim warranty on it and shift the blame/costs back to the manufacturer.

tldr: yes you can buy a new car that is not in compliance and you may not even know it.

[JSALES]

Spotted a black convertible Nissan 350z driving down marine drive today with a vanity custom license plate “VI NOT” Lol

[LengJai]

For those that know our favourite cop friend's IG, go give his latest flex a read. I suggest if you comment, keep it intellectual because he ends up making himself look like a fool.

[CorneringArtist]

Reading that, opinion is now law, yeah? Dangerous precedent he's setting, for what?

[TouringTeg]

Clearly that kind of camber is a danger to society.

Meanwhile I walked across a busy intersection yesterday and watched someone run a full red light and seconds later another car nearly rear end another by sliding to a stop when the lead car stopped for a yellow light. I would rather Cain sit at an intersection and give out tickets for illegal maneuvers.

[boogabooga]

.

[SpeedStars]

Just a note regarding the massive camber on the EF civic... I wish he posted a pic of the whole car. While it looked sick, the guy might've had like 2" of ground clearance at most. Thing was slammmmed

[Rays95]

Was pulled over just recently for loud exhaust and got a BOX 1 (plates stripped & towed)
The vi paper says unnecessary noise from exhaust and window tint (front side windows have very light tint film)

ATM was approaching an intersection near Science world.
Pressed on the brakes to slow down (was not speeding). The car down shifts and revs up a bit and i guess that's what the cop heard.
He was hiding somewhere on a motorcycle.
Pulled me over... said that i was "racing" and "stunt driving" (while in traffic... yea ok)

Asked for license and reg papers. (Provided both)
Pulled out his Decibel meter, asked me to rev to 4-4500 rpm.
I was hesitant to go as high as he wanted. I don't rev my car like that. But revved to 2-3000 rpm.
He told me to get out and he'll do it himself.
He called for back up. Another cop showed up in a suv.
He showed the other cop where to hold the decibel meter.
I asked him if he is allow to enter the vehicle and operate it without my consent. (he said yes) (2 lawyer firms I spoke with said that's not true)
And while he was revving it I'm sure he went over 4-4500 rpm. Maybe even redlined.

The decibel meter read 113.
Handed me a vi for loud exhaust and front side window tint.
And a violation ticket for both those things.
- Unnecessary noise $109 + 3 points. (7A.01)
- Window tint (film) $109 (73.05(8))

He didn't look at the rest of the car, just underneath (exhaust area). There was nothing else to look at really. He was more concerned about the exhaust mostly.
The cop was nice up to the point where he was forcing me to rev the car higher. That changed his mood quickly. While idling the exhaust sounds like stock.
He didn't really know much about exhausts. All he knew was what a muffler looks like. What caught his attention was my exhaust tips (Akrapovic). So he wrote down on paper that i have Akrapovic exhaust system. But in fact it is not. The brand name was right in front of him and he didn't even notice it.

My car is stock height
Oem wheels are in spec
Just some minor cosmetic mods.. (window visors, chrome delete, plate re locator) things like that
Functioning DRL
Functioning Airbag
no CEL
The front side windows have a light tint to it. Nothing too extreme. (It came like that when I bought the car, 5 years ago)
I can't think of anything else that he saw or noticed that would've made him believe that this deserves a BOX 1


I have my full class 5 license, 10+ years driving experience. Last speeding ticket was 5-6 years ago.
My car has been the same for the past 2 years no changes even up until present. And I have driven to downtown Vancouver multiply times with no issues from cops.


Based on all this I don't think this (loud exhaust/tint windows) justifies receiving a BOX 1. I feel this is completely unreasonable and abuse of power.
I was left stranded with no car, had to pay $200-300 tow fee.
Cancel my insurance because he took my plates.

This is just a brief description of what happen and my experience, I will post pictures later.


("h.Do not seize the license plates unless there are reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the order will be disobeyed and the vehicle will be driven,")
https://vancouver.ca/police/policebo...t-2019-004.pdf

[68style]

People need to post more details... ie: what type of exhaust, picture of car etc.

Box 1 for exhaust and tint seems pretty heavy-handed / unreasonable.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

This is what you can do to help out:

• If you have gotten a VI recently, post about your experience with the police officers. Were they polite/nice or assholes? Were they knowledgeable of the law (MVA)? What was the conversation about?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[underscore]

Originally Posted by 68style

People need to post more details... ie: what type of exhaust, picture of car etc.

Box 1 for exhaust and tint seems pretty heavy-handed / unreasonable.

Exhaust and tint could be anything from an exhaust tip and UV film to bosu pipes and a blacked out windshield.

[Rays95]

Originally Posted by 68style

People need to post more details... ie: what type of exhaust, picture of car etc.

Box 1 for exhaust and tint seems pretty heavy-handed / unreasonable.

More info added to original post

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Rays95

More info added to original post

Sorry to hear about your incident.

I find it surprising that an loud exhaust violation would result in a Box 1 Notice & Order. The entry into your vehicle without consent is also an issue that does not sit well with me. I would recommend you to file an official complaint via the OPCC (Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner):

https://opcc.bc.ca/

For your complaint, I would look for a realistic estimate of how high your rpms went when you downshift / rev-match, and see how far off that is compared to the 4 - 4.5k rpm that the officer went for. An important point that you should stress in your complaint is -- having the capacity to break the law is completely different than actually breaking the law. Even if your exhaust exceeds the 83 dB limit as allowed in the MVAR at 4.5k rpm, if whatever rpm your engine revs at during the downshift does not exceed 83 dB, you did not break the law.

The location of where the decibel meter is held (relative to the exhaust) is also somewhat important. At the end of the day, that measured reading is all for show because the MVAR allows the officer to issue you the VI purely on the cop's subjective judgement. But you want to know and indicate in your complaint that there is no standardized exhaust noise measurement protocol in the MVAR or CVSE regulations. Quite often, the police officer would hold the decibel meter directly next to the exhaust outlet. As everyone knows, the closer the meter is to the sound source, the louder the reading will be. What you are trying to do here is establish that the method of noise measure as performed by the police officer is inappropriate, so the actual numerical 113 dB value is rather meaningless.

I would press on these 4 points and see where that takes you. It's a long and tedious process, and nothing may come out of it despite the efforts that you've put into it. But I'd still urge you to press ahead. There is help available to guide you through.

I don't believe the front windows tinting is something you can dispute on. That one is pretty clear cut in the MVAR, so don't bother trying. The front windows already came like this when you bought the car is not a good excuse at all.

The more legitimate complaints we can generate (as a community), the stronger our argument would be.