PSA: VPD Handing Out VIs Like Candy

[westopher]

Originally Posted by underscore

Based on what? And without changing a single thing? Though by their nature a VI is still completely valid even if the car passes without changes. So unless it's the same officer giving the same vehicle VIs repeatedly then you're not going to get very far.



Except a VI is for anything, not just ride height. I feel like at best this would get thrown out of court, at worst it seems like a fast track to ending up with mandatory annual inspections. Remember how fun AirCare was for everyone?

Out of the people that have passed without changing a thing, how many have gotten more than 1 VI per year?

I don't get the angle you are taking trying to disprove what I'm saying when I'm not implying what I'm saying is fact.

I'll speak some facts here.

Fact: Cars that are not low enough to be considered illegal have been issued VIs for being "too low"
This is easily measurable roadside. You don't even need a ruler to do it. You just need eyes.

Fact: Cars are being issued VIs with zero, or minimal modifications, then passing with zero issues.

Fact: Police officers giving VI's are straight up LYING about the legality of modifications. Telling SW that ALL CAR MODIFICATIONS ARE ILLEGAL is a straight up fucking lie. This is no different than being given a ticket for parking illegally when there is a clear sign that states the parking rules, and being 100% within the legality when you park there.

Now I will clarify what I was speculating by using the information that has been available to me, by making educated guesses based on numbers.

Speculation: There have probably been, based on a guess, through the amount of time elapsed and the participation in this thread a couple hundred VIs given out.

Speculation: Other than rice cookerbois car, and a couple shitty cars I have seen on IG get VI's, most will pass, with no issues. If that number is the case, lets say 100 cars out of 110 pass.

Is that not grounds for the police to be held accountable for arbitrarily telling people they are doing illegal things when they are not? Wheres the line? Can a cop come up to me and tell me I have drugs when I don't and arrest me? Should it be my job to prove innocence when there is no cause for arrest? Should it cost ME money to prove my innocence just because someone felt like being an asshole, to counteract some goofball I don't know that shares a common interest (sort of) with me?
Yes I'm escalating it, but personally, I'd rather pay $500 to a lawyer to get this to stop, than pay nothing and worry about being punished for doing absolutely nothing wrong every time I leave the house.

[Hakkaboy]

Not saying that I agree with this, but based on this someone could argue that any aftermarket exhaust which may have tips larger than stock, and/or sound louder than stock violates this part of the MVA:

Alteration prohibited
(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened.

Noise increase or flames prohibited
(5) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler or exhaust system to which is attached any device which increases the noise of the expulsion of the gases from the engine or allows a flame to be emitted from the exhaust system.

Also, regarding being "too low", there's this section:

Headlamps
4.05 (1) A motor vehicle must be equipped with either one or 2 headlamps mounted on each side of the front of the vehicle and capable of displaying white light.

(2) The headlamps must be mounted at a height of not less than 56 cm and not more than 1.37 m.

I remember almost getting a VI 15 years ago in Richmond, and this is what the cop cited to me. He only backed off when I told him I would bet him his job that my stock ITR muffler had a Honda stamp on it

[BIC_BAWS]

Westopher is correct, aside from this thread, if you do a search for "VI" on Facebook posts, click "Recent" and select "Your Groups", I'm certain that you'll find more VIs.



Some examples:

• Someone's dad's 100% bone stock civic got VI'd for too much camber. It's factory alignment LOL.
• Someone got a VI for amber angel eyes and too much rear camber on a Mazda. Stock has negative camber. (Lowered by 1.5")
• This guy got VI'd for too low and negative camber (Lowered by > 1")
• 
• Someone heavily modified got VI'd. Among the infractions, he got "wheels not OEM". WTF lol
  
  

Food for thought, someone said the cop told them that Magnaflow doesn't count as an exhaust. Technically true because it violates MVA. But Magnaflow does make stock equivalent. If the cops are saying that can't have any aftermarket parts, then thats an end of an entire industry. Moreover, people will be forced to buy from Dealer or OEM, if OE spec isn't good enough. Ie. Bosch is a BMW OE mfg. But in this case Bosch is illegal bc it's not stamped BMW.

Also, here's an article in 2015 - Young Gear Heads Say They Are Being Unfairly Targeted By Police

[JDMDreams]

Does the police only use oem parts on their cars I don't think bull bars, steelies, extra lights are made by Ford or gm

[Nlkko]

One idiot doing idiotic thing costing whole car scene tens of thousands dollars in fines and inspection fees.

[Zedbra]

On cases similar to this, where there is a perception of authority overstepping their legal rights, it is best to contact the BC Ombudsman (now person) and start a formal complaint. Have evidence, speak factual, and it is their job to investigate. Having the police recommending particular shops (in this case the dealer) seems to be a bit of a conflict of interest for starters; it could just as easy be their friends' shops they dictate.

http://bcombudsperson.ca/driving-and-transportation

[SkunkWorks]

Whoa, I agree with Zedbra for a change.

I haven't updated this thread in a while but I have spoken to a reporter who is currently looking into this.

Please keep the updates and facts coming.

PS: I've spoken with two shops about my E30 (one dealer and the other an independent), both said my car will pass as is with no issue.

[ime2006]

This is the latest MVA regulation.
Consolidation current to October 16, 2018

http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/...bc/26_58_multi

Muffler
7.03 (1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be equipped
with an exhaust muffler consisting of a series of pipes or chambers which ensures
that the exhaust gases from the engine are cooled and expelled without excessive
noise.
Cut-outs prohibited
(2) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal
combustion engine when the muffler with which the vehicle is equipped is cut out
or disconnected from the engine.
Part removal prohibited
(3) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal
combustion engine equipped with a muffler from which has been removed any
baffle plate or other part.
Alteration prohibited
(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal
combustion engine equipped with a muffler the exhaust outlet of which has been
opened or widened.
Noise increase or flames prohibited
(5) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal
combustion engine equipped with a muffler or exhaust system to which is
attached any device which increases the noise of the expulsion of the gases from
the engine or allows a flame to be emitted from the exhaust system.
[am. B.C. Reg. 29/59.]

[westopher]

So does number 4 mean even the tips can not be larger than stock? Or the piping itself can not be?
4 would basically mean that the exhaust is in fact, basically unable to be modified if its the former.

[ime2006]

Originally Posted by westopher

So does number 4 mean even the tips can not be larger than stock? Or the piping itself can not be?
4 would basically mean that the exhaust is in fact, basically unable to be modified if its the former.

That's correct!!

Which means a lot of my buddies will have to put their mufflers back to stock.
This will cost thousands of dollars to put back in stock form. And Plus, the cost of aftermarket exhaust they spent on. Total lost is more than 10K

And I am thinking
Is it because of the election season, these MVA laws has been updated recently ????

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by ime2006

And I am thinking
Is it because of the election season, these MVA laws has been updated recently ????

"Last amendment made Oct 5, 2018". Based on what I read in the Muffler, Ride Height, Lights, Braking, Noise section, this hasn't changed since I first posted this thread.

I'd assume the only changes that have been made as of late would be to adhere to the Cannabis legalization.


Edit: The following link will show you what has changed between Dec 7, 2017 and Oct 10, 2018 http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/e3tlc96318



Edit 2: Scroll down to M for MVA, and it'll show you amendments: http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/...n/2018cumulati

[underscore]

Originally Posted by westopher

I don't get the angle you are taking trying to disprove what I'm saying when I'm not implying what I'm saying is fact.

My point is that if you're going to go to the extreme of a class action you probably should be using facts, and be thinking big picture (which the guy doxxing a police officer sure as hell didn't do). That's why I mention things like annual inspections. All it takes is the wrong people seeing too much of a fuss being raised over what are technically validly issued VIs (as far as their intended purpose in the gov'ts eyes) and they'll start thinking about the revenue generation from required periodic inspections. That's enough of a headache with a daily, now imagine the guys with 2/3/4/5/etc vehicles doing it for every one. At one point I had 7 cars, so I'm not super jazzed on that idea.

Even then we'd still have VIs because of the guys who get an inspection and then immediately make their vehicle illegal again.

Originally Posted by westopher

Fact: Cars that are not low enough to be considered illegal have been issued VIs for being "too low"
This is easily measurable roadside. You don't even need a ruler to do it. You just need eyes.

Fact: Cars are being issued VIs with zero, or minimal modifications, then passing with zero issues.

Fact: Police officers giving VI's are straight up LYING about the legality of modifications. Telling SW that ALL CAR MODIFICATIONS ARE ILLEGAL is a straight up fucking lie. This is no different than being given a ticket for parking illegally when there is a clear sign that states the parking rules, and being 100% within the legality when you park there.

Fact: Sadly that's how VI's are currently set up to work. A vehicle does not need to be modified to get a VI, an officer just needs to say they suspect something is non-compliant (visible or not) as they aren't mechanics and they aren't going to start doing a full inspection at the side of the road.

Originally Posted by westopher

Speculation: There have probably been, based on a guess, through the amount of time elapsed and the participation in this thread a couple hundred VIs given out.

Speculation: Other than rice cookerbois car, and a couple shitty cars I have seen on IG get VI's, most will pass, with no issues. If that number is the case, lets say 100 cars out of 110 pass.

Those seem like pretty generous numbers given how I've seen peoples VIs go in the past, but based on how the VI system is currently set up even that is completely fine in the gov'ts eyes. You're also assuming the information coming from people is correct, which again given what I've seen in the past a lot of people who say "it's legal" and "it passed without doing anything" are lying. That isn't the case with everyone, but people seem to have a very loose definition of what "changing nothing" is.

Originally Posted by westopher

Is that not grounds for the police to be held accountable for arbitrarily telling people they are doing illegal things when they are not? Wheres the line? Can a cop come up to me and tell me I have drugs when I don't and arrest me? Should it be my job to prove innocence when there is no cause for arrest? Should it cost ME money to prove my innocence just because someone felt like being an asshole, to counteract some goofball I don't know that shares a common interest (sort of) with me?
Yes I'm escalating it, but personally, I'd rather pay $500 to a lawyer to get this to stop, than pay nothing and worry about being punished for doing absolutely nothing wrong every time I leave the house.

The problem here is you're not relating to equivalent things, a VI is simply a referral for an inspection, not an arrest (aside from a box 1, but looking at some of these cars it's like wearing a necklace with a brick of coke hanging off it). I'm not sure what you mean by getting VI's to stop, they'll always exist, and going by how they're currently defined unless the same cop is repeatedly issuing them to the same vehicle you're going to have an extremely difficult (borderline impossible) time proving there is any wrongdoing taking place. It'll certainly cost you a hell of a lot more than $500 to get a lawyer to come up with something that has any hope of going anywhere.

Originally Posted by westopher

So does number 4 mean even the tips can not be larger than stock? Or the piping itself can not be?
4 would basically mean that the exhaust is in fact, basically unable to be modified if its the former.

Even the tips, that's the way it's been forever. The stupid part is that it's purely tip diameter, not cross sectional area. Meaning if you have two tips stock, and swap to a single, the single has to be the diameter of *one* of the original tips. If the single is bigger, even if it's smaller than the combined area of the two tips, it's noncompliant.

ie stock you have dual 2" tips, total area = 6.28sq". Swap to a single 2.5" tip, total area = 4.91sq" (smaller) and it's illegal.

[white rocket]

The law isn't the issue lately, it's the people in charge of enforcing it. VI's have been around long before most of us even drove a car but since the VPD and other units have their hackles up for whatever reason, dukkake(fucking great user name) or not, they are the ones choosing to be so strict. Trying to get them to back off by using a lawyer would be useless.

It's like speeding. The limit posted is 50kph. Everyone cruises by at 60kph average, no cop pulls anyone over. A random car blows by at 72kph, he's getting tagged. Now that guy blows up on social media calling cops out and doing childish things to try to get revenge (or whatever). Now cops are ticketing everyone going over 50kph. People are flipping out crying blue murder that they got a ticket for speeding when they were only going 54kph. Try fighting it. The law states that the limit is 50kph and you got caught doing 54kph. Pretty black and white. And only a lenient judge would grant any sort of sympathy in court.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by white rocket

It's like speeding.

Don't give buddy any idea.

[Energy]

Originally Posted by white rocket

The law isn't the issue lately, it's the people in charge of enforcing it. VI's have been around long before most of us even drove a car but since the VPD and other units have their hackles up for whatever reason, dukkake(fucking great user name) or not, they are the ones choosing to be so strict. Trying to get them to back off by using a lawyer would be useless.

It's like speeding. The limit posted is 50kph. Everyone cruises by at 60kph average, no cop pulls anyone over. A random car blows by at 72kph, he's getting tagged. Now that guy blows up on social media calling cops out and doing childish things to try to get revenge (or whatever). Now cops are ticketing everyone going over 50kph. People are flipping out crying blue murder that they got a ticket for speeding when they were only going 54kph. Try fighting it. The law states that the limit is 50kph and you got caught doing 54kph. Pretty black and white. And only a lenient judge would grant any sort of sympathy in court.

This. The speeding example is a good analogy. A VI is something squarely within an officer's discretion. Whether or not they choose to exercise that discretion is entirely up to the officer. They aren't doing anything wrong or exceeding their authority by issuing a VI.

Now there may be reasons not to go on an all out VI spree like maintaining a good relationship with the car community or keeping the image of being nice, etc but again that is up to the officer.

Maybe if whoever started this apologizes to the satisfaction of the officer then they will exercise their discretion and only give VIs to the extremely modified cars instead of the lightly modded or OEM+ ones.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by white rocket

The law isn't the issue lately, it's the people in charge of enforcing it. VI's have been around long before most of us even drove a car but since the VPD and other units have their hackles up for whatever reason, dukkake(fucking great user name) or not, they are the ones choosing to be so strict. Trying to get them to back off by using a lawyer would be useless.

It's like speeding. The limit posted is 50kph. Everyone cruises by at 60kph average, no cop pulls anyone over. A random car blows by at 72kph, he's getting tagged. Now that guy blows up on social media calling cops out and doing childish things to try to get revenge (or whatever). Now cops are ticketing everyone going over 50kph. People are flipping out crying blue murder that they got a ticket for speeding when they were only going 54kph. Try fighting it. The law states that the limit is 50kph and you got caught doing 54kph. Pretty black and white. And only a lenient judge would grant any sort of sympathy in court.

One problem with this analogy is that some people are getting VI'd with a completely stock car.

This is like being pulled over for going 49 km/h in a 50 km/h zone, which is complete BS. It's a waste of time and public resources.

It seems like now it's affecting non-car people's lives and that's when this really needs to just fucking stop.

Regarding the kid, whatever his name is, I don't give a dead moose's last shit about "the true story." Write an apology, give it to the cops, make it up to them so this shit stops before it can spread.

I don't know or care who is right or wrong. I just know this drama started because of the kid, so he will be the one to solve this hot mess.

[CorneringArtist]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

One problem with this analogy is that some people are getting VI'd with a completely stock car.

This is like being pulled over for going 49 km/h in a 50 km/h zone, which is complete BS. It's a waste of time and public resources.

It seems like now it's affecting non-car people's lives and that's when this really needs to just fucking stop.

Regarding the kid, whatever his name is, I don't give a dead moose's last shit about "the true story." Write an apology, give it to the cops, make it up to them so this shit stops before it can spread.

I don't know or care who is right or wrong. I just know this drama started because of the kid, so he will be the one to solve this hot mess.

"But but, don't believe everything you see on the Internet! REEEEEEEE!"

Now that I'm finding out that cars that would hardly pass as modified are being tagged, NOW is the time to just swallow your pride and straight up apologize. At this point it doesn't even matter if it was him, everyone thinks it is, and trying to straighten the story now isn't going to stop the VI's anytime soon.

I thought Ocean City PD during the idiocy formerly known as H2O was bad. Now it's getting to the point where non car people are likely to get caught up for factory negative camber. Speaking of, wouldn't having zero camber when factory recommends it be grounds to create dangerous cars because now they're unstable and out of factory specification?

[BIC_BAWS]

When I first bought my BMW and saw other BMWs of the same gen on the road, I was curious as to why all these normal people with normal cars were #stancenation either that or just broken. Turns out that BMWs have a lot of factory camber.

I actually recently got aligned at TSS, who told me they can't do anything aside from factory alignment because of the restrictive factory tolerances.

But yes, it would be dangerous to have zero camber, which is out of factory specs. Ironic.

[snowball]

Originally Posted by westopher

So does number 4 mean even the tips can not be larger than stock? Or the piping itself can not be?
4 would basically mean that the exhaust is in fact, basically unable to be modified if its the former.

Language is not clear but I remember we discussed this a few years ago agreed that a "cone shape" tip would be the best definition of widened and it wasn't meant to be restricting your diameter of exhaust to stock.

If you wanted to argue it, I would say a muffler with an inlet diameter equal to the outlet diameter should pass based on the current language.

[snowball]

Originally Posted by CorneringArtist

"But but, don't believe everything you see on the Internet! REEEEEEEE!"

Now that I'm finding out that cars that would hardly pass as modified are being tagged, NOW is the time to just swallow your pride and straight up apologize. At this point it doesn't even matter if it was him, everyone thinks it is, and trying to straighten the story now isn't going to stop the VI's anytime soon.

Apologize? If you think one apology from one guy is going to stop all this I think you're wrong. This is no longer about that.

If they're pulling over regular Joes with almost stock cars, many of whom have no connection to the car modding community and probably have no idea who Dukkake is, then it is no longer about getting an apology from anyone. This is about them being assholes for the hell of it and costing us hundreds of dollars in unwarranted inspection fees because they can. They have the power to abuse this loophole and I'm sure they feel amazing for it.

[nexusxv]

Originally Posted by snowball

Apologize? If you think one apology from one guy is going to stop all this I think you're wrong. This is no longer about that.

If they're pulling over regular Joes with almost stock cars, many of whom have no connection to the car modding community and probably have no idea who Dukkake is, then it is no longer about getting an apology from anyone. This is about them being assholes for the hell of it and costing us hundreds of dollars in unwarranted inspection fees because they can. They have the power to abuse this loophole and I'm sure they feel amazing for it.

Correct. I think people think the revenge thing is somehow justifies one side. Let's say if x kills wife of y, and y kills wife of x - both of them goes to jail. Crime of one person, is not an excuse for the crime of another. More over there is a group punishment because of one, and we are not in army or north korea(when the whole family goes in a gulag). In civilised country it is a big no no.

[ime2006]

when was last time cops have this major strict VI operation ? 2001 ?

And how long did it last ?

[westopher]

I just got a box one for illegal ride height

[JSALES]

Originally Posted by ime2006

when was last time cops have this major strict VI operation ? 2001 ?

And how long did it last ?

Don't know how long it lasted but this VI operation currently seems like it's been going on for almost 2 months now

[CL typeS]

Originally Posted by westopher

I just got a box one for illegal ride height

Holy fuckkkkk