Canadian politics thread

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Nice time to appreciate CBC News



This might explain why so many people, even here, are saying stuff like "Trudeau purposefully did this to gain himself more seats". It's a talking point that gets repeated everywhere except very few places.

Quoting this once again, because this is a very important point that many Canadians don't realize.

Post Media owns the majority of the damn news outlets in the goddamn country, they pretty much control the entire media spectrum here in BC, owning both of our major newspapers.

This is a major issue to credible and non-slanted journalism that people should be more aware of.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

Because as has been repeated all over the place: no one wanted it right now. JT needs to go but this was absolutely not the time to do it. JT promised he wouldn't call an election during the pandemic then thought he could secure more power and snapped it with as little notice as legally possible. The Liberals didn't even have a platform for the election they called until the cycle was half over. Voter turn out may be a historic low at only 58.5% (vice 67% in 2019) and there have been growing complaints of people unable to vote due to closed or inaccessible polling stations. Terrible timing and circumstance, no one wanted it, no one really cares about the result, and it accomplished nothing for anyone. That's a waste.

You can't be serious with this. Appreciate what? CBC is the most blatantly Liberal-sucking network on TV and even they were saying this was a waste and a failed attempt to gain more power during the 10 mins I had it on over breakfast. The talking point gets repeated everywhere because it's true. Why would he call an election two years earlier than needed if not to try and take advantage of the situation and gain more seats? That's EXACTLY why he did it. He hypocritically called it in the midst of the fourth wave of the pandemic and during the fall of Afghanistan and subsequent humanitarian crisis, two exponentially more important problems to focus on instead of dissolving parliament so he could feed his own ego - and even the Liberal CBC has been ripping him for it. How convenient they're left off your graphic....

General comment: Shame JT broke his promise on electoral reform, we'd have a very different political landscape from 2015. The Liberals would have lost 5 of the last 6 elections to the Conservatives if done by proportional representation, including this one. Given voter turnout and loss of the popular vote again he won with only 18.6% of the eligible Canadian population voting Liberal. Not even 1/5 of the country, that's brutal 'support'. I feel like the NDP gets ripped off with the lack of representation as well. Our system is antiquated (though the US is far worse) and we've needed reform for a long time. The elections are always called before the polls even close in the west. 107 seats from BC-MB including YT-NU, and 231 from ON to the East Coast. At minimum seats need to be pulled from Atlantic Canada and Quebec and moved to BC/AB based on populous. For example: Quebec has 78 seats with a pop of 8.4X million (and a separatist federal party which is another topic), AB and BC combined have 9.3X million and only 76 seats in parliament. Atlantic Canada has a population of 2.4X million and is grossly over-represented in Parliament with 32 seats, AB has almost double the population with 4.3X million and only two more seats with 34. NT has approx 250,000 residents and one MP, by that math Atlantic Canada should only have 10 seats. I don't care where you're from or what your political affiliation is but we all have to see that that's not right. The Western provinces and Territories need more weight in Parliament.

Wait a minute here, you're not making any sense in my opinion.

You post quite regularly how much you disdain Trudeau, he gave you the opportunity to kick him out early, it didn't work out, and now you're saying "no one wanted it, no one really cares about the result"

Laugh out fucking loud

That makes zero sense. That is akin to going out with friends to a restaurant you hate, sitting there complaining about how much you hate the establishment, your friends then offering to head out somewhere else, you turning them down, and sitting pissed off for the rest of the meal moaning about it.

I tell you what, you've seen my dislike for Trump, if I was an American and an election could've been called 2 years into his presidency in order to vote a non-confidence (yes I know that isn't possible in the US), I would be falling over myself to have that chance to kick his ass out early.

Once again this wasn't some regular election, I would consider this election a COVID Policy Referendum, something completely unprecedented in historical times.

[Hondaracer]

The news paper thing is irrelevant. The amount of people who’s vote is influenced by reading print media is inconsequential.

[westopher]

All of those newspapers have online content, and are by far the most substantial media that show up in my apple news on my phone as far as Canadian content goes.

[68style]

Conservatives: “There has to be a way get Trudeau out! We need to get someone else to run the country! I hate that fucking guy, fucking Liberals!!”

Trudeau: “I’m holding an election now, please cast your votes to determine who represents you”

Conservatives: “What a fucking waste of money!”

[Hondaracer]

Even then.. I don’t see them being a factor. Can you honestly say people are swayed by these articles? If that was the case it’s obviously not working very well given the election results.

Think it just goes to show conservatives own businesses, surprise surprise

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

Conservatives: “There has to be a way get Trudeau out! We need to get someone else to run the country! I hate that fucking guy, fucking Liberals!!”

Trudeau: “I’m holding an election now, please cast your votes to determine who represents you”

Conservatives: “What a fucking waste of money!”

I never heard any of those people who wanted to get rid of Trudeau asking for an election.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The news paper thing is irrelevant. The amount of people who’s vote is influenced by reading print media is inconsequential.

I don't know what kind of circles you keep, but print/mainstream media still has an impact and matters. It's why most companies and organizations still monitor what is being said in the news and why there are so many PR firms these days. It's also why some politicians have chosen to attack mainstream media - if it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, why waste the time?

The people who only receive their news from Instagram or Facebook tend not to vote period or are part of the angry fringe.

[Hondaracer]

Mainstream media absolutey, in TV and online publications

The Vancouver sun and province, even with their online presence is not influencing the outcomes of any riding. And I would assume that’s the case with the majority of that list

Almost every big news paper in Canada is on life support with barely enough subscribers to keep afloat. I would also wager that anyone still getting the physical paper is likely intelligent enough to not be swayed by opinion pieces lol

[68style]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I never heard any of those people who wanted to get rid of Trudeau asking for an election.

It’s the best way to do it isn’t it?

Unless of course the number of people super upset is... too small... and doesn't represent the views of most Canadians... which would appear to be the case?

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I never heard any of those people who wanted to get rid of Trudeau asking for an election.

So...how do these people who want to get rid of Trudeau plan to do it, if not an election? Are we now storming Ottawa?

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Mainstream media absolutey, in TV and online publications

The Vancouver sun and province, even with their online presence is not influencing the outcomes of any riding. And I would assume that’s the case with the majority of that list

Almost every big news paper in Canada is on life support with barely enough subscribers to keep afloat. I would also wager that anyone still getting the physical paper is likely intelligent enough to not be swayed by opinion pieces lol

I can't tell if you're being purposely obtuse, but online publications IS post media now, and is absolutely a part of MSM.

Independent news papers with unbiased journalism is on life support, not "every big newspaper". Which is a problem.

[Hondaracer]

So you would say these “biased” conservative supporting newspapers had an influence on the election outcome?

[westopher]

After all the yelling about liberal media over the last several years, are you here literally saying that media bias has no effect on people?

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So you would say these “biased” conservative supporting newspapers had an influence on the election outcome?

That is quite difficult to gauge without some metrics behind it.

Postmedia is primarily online nowadays, if you don't think the National Post, Financial Post, and all of their provincially based outlets can't influence ideas and politics, I don't know what to tell you. That's like trying to say Fox News doesn't have an influence on US politics, come on man

Outside of the Vancouver Sun and The Province, what other online local news media is really consumed here? Daily Hive? The Tyee?

Postmedia has a monopoly on Canadian news.

You want to know how they can influence politics?

Take a look at any provincial election and see how both The Province and Vancouver Sun prop up the BC Liberals, read how many op-eds they produce and publish online for BC Liberal affiliated lobbyists and party members.

I worked for a lobbying firm that worked hand and hand with them, they certainly have a major influence.

[sdubfid]

The media absolutely has an impact. Look at how many people have the latest fad in their latest Facebook profile pic.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by westopher

A lot of people, and media have blamed vote splitting with the ppc for the cons loss. If you want to get down to it, if you consider the libs on the progressive side of the middle, the numbers clearly state that Canada wants a progressive government if you want to look at it like that. 17.7 +32.2 = 49.8 in comparison to the 39.1 carried between the cons and PPC.
I honestly don’t know where to put the bloc. Progressive financial policy while being pretty far right on some social issues while pretty far left on some others.

I was waiting to make this point if someone would bring up "the popular vote"

Take the Bloc out completely because they're weird, and it's like 70:30 left to right votes

[Great68]

Yeah I find the popular vote a pretty meaningless statistic in Canadian politics.

Sure you could say the Cons had the highest popular vote at 31.8%. But you could also say that 68.2% of the country voted against them.

[Vansterdam]

[SkunkWorks]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Even then.. I don’t see them being a factor. Can you honestly say people are swayed by these articles? If that was the case it’s obviously not working very well given the election results.

Think it just goes to show conservatives own businesses, surprise surprise

Says the guy who only ever regurgitates his political views from what he hears on 980

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by Great68

Yeah I find the popular vote a pretty meaningless statistic in Canadian politics.

Sure you could say the Cons had the highest popular vote at 31.8%. But you could also say that 68.2% of the country voted against them.

people can come up with statistics to prove anything. forfty per cent of all people know that.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

people can come up with statistics to prove anything. forfty per cent of all people know that.

You can literally count the votes to the very last one and do the math yourself...

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by 68style

It’s the best way to do it isn’t it?

not 2-3 years earlier than usual

what's to say trudeau wont get pissy again at minority govt and call another one in a year or two?

i didn't like it when NDP here did it either so it's not a matter of hurdurr make him drama teacher again

[Traum]

Responding to this and Westopher's sentiments on the same group of people simultaneously wanting to get rid of Trudeau while citing the election was a waste of $600M+, I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Both points are entirely valid, and both points can coexist in the same person / group without conflicts.

I, for one, would very much liked to have seen Trudeau get voted out. I think he is incompetent in far too many ways, and he has overstayed his welcome in the PM office. At the same time, despite his incompetence, he hasn't committed any crimes that requires the immediate removal of him from office -- it isn't like he pulled a Nixon-Watergate on us yet. So because we are only 23 months into Trudeau's second term, I'd say a much better time to get rid of him is something further down the line, preferably some time after the 36th month of his second term, if not closer to the 48th month time frame.

Whenever we cast our ballots in a federal election, we know going in that in theory and for better or for worse, we are committing to a government of (up to) 4 years. Anything shorter than that is a bit wasteful. Only going through less than 1/2 his term and calling for a new election on his own -- instead of having his parliament voted down by a vote of no confidence from the opposition parties -- shows the PM and the governing party doesn't care for being wasteful of our tax dollars.

Also, note that regardless of who won the election, it was still wasteful for Trudeau to call an election this early in his 2nd term. The fact that Parliament largely stayed the same after the election is only adding more insult to injury. It is not because Parliament mostly stayed the same that this election was wasteful.

Originally Posted by 68style

Conservatives: “There has to be a way get Trudeau out! We need to get someone else to run the country! I hate that fucking guy, fucking Liberals!!”

Trudeau: “I’m holding an election now, please cast your votes to determine who represents you”

Conservatives: “What a fucking waste of money!”

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Traum

Responding to this and Westopher's sentiments on the same group of people simultaneously wanting to get rid of Trudeau while citing the election was a waste of $600M+, I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Both points are entirely valid, and both points can coexist in the same person / group without conflicts.

I, for one, would very much liked to have seen Trudeau get voted out. I think he is incompetent in far too many ways, and he has overstayed his welcome in the PM office. At the same time, despite his incompetence, he hasn't committed any crimes that requires the immediate removal of him from office -- it isn't like he pulled a Nixon-Watergate on us yet. So because we are only 23 months into Trudeau's second term, I'd say a much better time to get rid of him is something further down the line, preferably some time after the 36th month of his second term, if not closer to the 48th month time frame.

Whenever we cast our ballots in a federal election, we know going in that in theory and for better or for worse, we are committing to a government of (up to) 4 years. Anything shorter than that is a bit wasteful. Only going through less than 1/2 his term and calling for a new election on his own -- instead of having his parliament voted down by a vote of no confidence from the opposition parties -- shows the PM and the governing party doesn't care for being wasteful of our tax dollars.

Also, note that regardless of who won the election, it was still wasteful for Trudeau to call an election this early in his 2nd term. The fact that Parliament largely stayed the same after the election is only adding more insult to injury. It is not because Parliament mostly stayed the same that this election was wasteful.

So your contention is that it just wasn't the right time?

Instead of potentially getting JT out sooner, you want to just leave him there to spend more money and go into more corruption/scandals instead of potentially removing him immediately. Is that what you're saying?