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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North vancouver
Posts: 12,756
Thanked 32,637 Times in 7,615 Posts
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It can be explained to me 100x, but I’ll never understand the logic of having solutions offered to your problem and just turning them down while providing no alternative, while continuing to complain about the problem. It’s like people just would rather have something to be mad about than not.
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98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
instead of having his parliament voted down by a vote of no confidence from the opposition parties -- shows the PM and the governing party doesn't care for being wasteful of our tax dollars.
If he was defeated in a no-confidence vote right now people would still be claiming the election was a "waste of money", it's just that the blame would shift to "bad governance" rather than "power grab". Same shit different pile.
Our parliamentary system allows the ruling party to set election dates when they desire. It's what sets us apart from countries like the USA. The prevalence of minority governments, which complicates these election calls even further is also something that sets us apart from the USA, and a good thing. If you look back at the history of minority governments in Canada, none really last much longer than 2 years (Joe Clark's government only lasted 8 months) , so this sort of thing is absolutely normal and expected to me.
Traum ... don't worry about it. There are people here who can't hold things in tension or more than one competing ideas at the same time. For them, it's either/or, black/white, us/them .. they can't exist in a both/and world where 2 seemingly different ideas can both be valid or true. They think that something can't be sweet and salty. They think that a person can't be unhappy and yet happy.
Eventually, they'll come around when they have more life experience.
And as you can tell, the last 2 pages of this thread has just gone down the toilet real fast, what were reasonable people are now just piling on, thumping their chest.
So your contention is that it just wasn't the right time?
Instead of potentially getting JT out sooner, you want to just leave him there to spend more money and go into more corruption/scandals instead of potentially removing him immediately. Is that what you're saying?
The WE corruption is obviously bad. The unfortunate part is, I don't recall there being any concrete evidence that can definitively pin any corruption charges to Trudeau himself. Now, anyone would be a fool to think that Trudeau was not involved, but in our society, accusations without proof remains as accusations without proof. How do you invoke special procedures to remove a PM when there is a lack of concrete proof?
The scandals are just scandals. They are bad and reflects poorly on him, but on their own, unfortunately they are not enough to be used as reasons to toss him out.
What I am saying he -- when Trudeau was elected in 2019, he received a mandate to govern for up to 4 years. For better or for worse, we are "stuck" with him for roughly that amount of time. Without a / some seriously bad wrongdoing(s), we can't invoke any sort of "special procedures" to remove him.
Election results have shown that Canadians are not fed up enough with Trudeau yet to remove him from office. The near-identical Parliamentary seats are suggesting that Canadians just want the MPs to get back to work, instead of wasting time and money on frivolous elections. Just as you can make the argument that leaving Trudeau in office (without an election attempt to throw him out) is undesirably bad, the election results are telling us that Canadian voters don't perceive Trudeau to be bad enough yet to get voted out. According to your conjecture that "leaving Trudeau in office to spend more money and go into more corruption/scandals" is a bad idea, perhaps having him in office for another 12 months before an election is called would drum up enough dissatisfaction among the voters to get rid of him.
Of course, this isn't the MCU, and there are no "what if" situations. At the end of the day, I'm saying I would have preferred to have this election held in Sept 2022 instead of Sept 2021, and spending that $600M to do it now is wasteful because it is spent 12 months too early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great68
If he was defeated in a no-confidence vote right now people would still be claiming the election was a "waste of money", it's just that the blame would shift to "bad governance" rather than "power grab". Same shit different pile.
In a prematurely called election, there is a major difference between who initiated the call. With this election, nobody except Trudeau / the Liberals wanted it, so of course the blame should go to them, and I would have expected some voter backlash towards them. (Unfortunately, that did not happen and I am disappointed to see that.)
If Canadians weren't asking for a premature election, and the opposition party / parties have initiated one without any major wrongdoing from the PM / governing party, I would expect voters to punish the opposition for triggering an unnecessary election.
The Liberals took a gamble or calculated risk or whatever. If they won they'd look like heroes. It didn't work out people are pissed and rightfully so. Not much more to that.
I enjoyed watching this criminal lawyer analyze Justin Trudeau.
It can be explained to me 100x, but I’ll never understand the logic of having solutions offered to your problem and just turning them down while providing no alternative, while continuing to complain about the problem. It’s like people just would rather have something to be mad about than not.
See what you're doing wrong is thinking there's any logic going on there.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North vancouver
Posts: 12,756
Thanked 32,637 Times in 7,615 Posts
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Could be posted on real estate thread but feels pertinent here due to the big election issue.
Article about housing.
Yet another “fuckin Trudeau” problem that clearly goes well beyond our borders and is a massive global issue. https://apple.news/A2jiepS7nRoGWBN28FBJehg
__________________
98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
In hindsight, is anyone surprised that the right wing idiots among the Conservative party wouldn't sink their ship? Climate change deniers? Anti-vaxxers? It is no use that O'Toole tries to present himself as a sensible centralist when some among his pack continue to act like idiots when O'Toole was supposed to rein them in as the party leader. If he can't rein in those idiots in his own team, how can he lead the country?
Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North vancouver
Posts: 12,756
Thanked 32,637 Times in 7,615 Posts
Failed 214 Times in 162 Posts
It's not his fault. As far as con leaders go, O'Toole genuinely doesn't seem like a piece of shit.
Thats his issue. His party is based on a platform that's half nut jobs, and half reasonable people with some individualistic ideologies. The entire idea of conservatism is broad and incredibly fractured in canada. The party has the most difficult base because its trying to appeal to a far too large audience. As I said, the different levels of progressive government has a lot of different representation, where the right has
Fucking whack jobs: PPC
Whack jobs all the way to moderate progressives: conservative
There's no way for them to appeal to enough Canadians.
Remember that pigfucker Derek sloan was a candidate for con leadership and he got like 400 votes and came in 4th place in his riding. That is quite telling.
__________________
98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
Maybe pointless to ask here but what’s with all right wing political groups in all first world countries turning into whackjob religious anti-science wink wink nudge nudge racist parties?
I mean Canada’s Conservative party is probably more liberal than the USA’s Democratic Party is in many respects but it’s even rearing it’s ugly head here within the party and through the PPC as well.
What do these people actually want in the end?
To me Conservative party growing up was just like about idealism and staying the course and logical financial decisions (thought his can definitely be argued in practice) and less of a bleeding heart / a little bit less government interference or less stringent taxation than, say, the Liberal party. It’s nothing like that nowadays.
Maybe pointless to ask here but what’s with all right wing political groups in all first world countries turning into whackjob religious anti-science wink wink nudge nudge racist parties?
I mean Canada’s Conservative party is probably more liberal than the USA’s Democratic Party is in many respects but it’s even rearing it’s ugly head here within the party and through the PPC as well.
What do these people actually want in the end?
To me Conservative party growing up was just like about idealism and staying the course and logical financial decisions (thought his can definitely be argued in practice) and less of a bleeding heart / a little bit less government interference or less stringent taxation than, say, the Liberal party. It’s nothing like that nowadays.
By dumb theory: Definition of conservative = opposite of progressive. In other words, they want things to remain the same. And the more things progress, the more they will fight that progress... so it goes from "want things to remain the same" to "actually want things to go backwards"
It's not his fault. As far as con leaders go, O'Toole genuinely doesn't seem like a piece of shit.
Thats his issue. His party is based on a platform that's half nut jobs, and half reasonable people with some individualistic ideologies. The entire idea of conservatism is broad and incredibly fractured in canada. The party has the most difficult base because its trying to appeal to a far too large audience. As I said, the different levels of progressive government has a lot of different representation, where the right has
Fucking whack jobs: PPC
Whack jobs all the way to moderate progressives: conservative
There's no way for them to appeal to enough Canadians.
Remember that pigfucker Derek sloan was a candidate for con leadership and he got like 400 votes and came in 4th place in his riding. That is quite telling.
This is why the Conservative party in Canada is somewhat fucked. It's a blessing we're able to have these other fridge parties like the PPC in this country, as it splits the vote, and provides more options. The sad fact is that with the internet, the rightwing ecosphere has created a beast that it can no longer control. People have become more radicalized, more conspiracy-theory minded. This poses real problems for the center-right.
You're seeing this manifested in the states long before it made its way up here. If there were more rightwing parties in the states, you'd likely never see the Republicans win, the vote splitting would be immense, this is why the Republican party has fought vociferously to stop the advent of any new parties (the Democrats have as well, but to a lesser degree).
Our multi-party system will continue to pose a real problem for any centrist-right party, as the electorate continues to become further indoctrinated by PPC-style propaganda politics. The Conservatives are in a real lose/lose situation right now, and it will be difficult for them to find a real national identity that is successful.
Meanwhile the Liberals can continue to just be "meh" and win elections handedly. If the NDP ever find a leader as likable as a Jack Layton again, I'd say the Liberals would be in more trouble, but as it stands, they will continue to cruise to fairly easy victories IMHO.
Maybe pointless to ask here but what’s with all right wing political groups in all first world countries turning into whackjob religious anti-science wink wink nudge nudge racist parties?
I mean Canada’s Conservative party is probably more liberal than the USA’s Democratic Party is in many respects but it’s even rearing it’s ugly head here within the party and through the PPC as well.
What do these people actually want in the end?
To me Conservative party growing up was just like about idealism and staying the course and logical financial decisions (thought his can definitely be argued in practice) and less of a bleeding heart / a little bit less government interference or less stringent taxation than, say, the Liberal party. It’s nothing like that nowadays.
I've said it a million times on here, it's the internet man.
Nowadays you have Youtube, Podcasts, Substack, go down the list of avenues in which one can consume ideas and media. The reality is the hardcore right has invested time and money into cultivating these platforms for the last 2 decades now. They've now created a beast in which they can no longer control, and you're seeing this problem blowing up in western democracies in Europe as well. The right is moving more from the center, and to its extreme ends, accelerated and fueled by online media.
Until the electorate becomes more savvy to this bullshit, it will continue to evolve. The reality is that humans are primal -- we naturally adhere to tribalism, rightwing ideas of "us vs them" fit perfectly into that type of mentality.
We have become atrophied in a political and cultural sense, I truly don't have an answer on how to fix this problem.
It's no wonder why countries like China keep such a firm stranglehold on internet media and online discourse.
Meanwhile the Liberals can continue to just be "meh" and win elections handedly. If the NDP ever find a leader as likable as a Jack Layton again, I'd say the Liberals would be in more trouble, but as it stands, they will continue to cruise to fairly easy victories IMHO.
Do people not like Jagmeet Singh? While I wholeheartedly agree that he is no Jack Layton, I seem to be under the impression that voters generally find him rather likeable, but they still have other reasons that keeps them from voting NDP.
Organizationally, it seems to me that at the federal level, the NDP is also nowhere nearly as organized as the Liberals or even the Conservatives. They field candidates that seem to lack experience, or is at least giving the impression that those candidates lack experience.
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