Canadian politics thread

[Hondaracer]

My posts probably make it sound otherwise but my issue is moreso the way it was handled as opposed to the actual message or their actions

[westopher]

What really happened that negatively affected Canada from the use of the emergency act? Can you name anything other than just not liking it?

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Am I losing my mind here? Back in February it was pretty much unanimous (save for some crazies like CiC) that these convoy folks were grade-A assholes that needed to get shut down ASAP.

Now we have people 6 months later rehabilitating their image and defending them ? What is going on here?

Poilievre joins soldier protesting COVID-19 mandates in march through Ottawa ahead of Canada Day

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/poilievre-...-day-1.5969694

This idiot is whats happening.

The movie idiocracy Nailed it. Even smart people on the right are having to act stupid to get votes from idiots.

[CivicBlues]

Seems like they just want to "stick it to the libs/Trudeau" . Even though there's plenty they can use against him they're falling in with the freedumb squad which is not a good look.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by westopher

What really happened that negatively affected Canada from the use of the emergency act? Can you name anything other than just not liking it?

At the time when Trudeau called up the Emergency Act to deal with the Freedumb Convoy, there have been a good amount of criticism saying that the Convoy could have been dealt with using other laws that already exist, and that going to the Emergency Act is an overkill.

I agree with many of the critics that our set of existing laws could already have dealt with the convoy. At the same time, it was also evident to me that the Convoy became a political hot potato that a lot of people in leadership positions -- be it the Ottawa mayor, the OPS chief, Doug Ford, the federal gov, etc. -- did not want to touch and be responsible for. This is why it took so long before Trudeau finally called in the nuclear option and dropped the Emergency Act on the Convoy.

I don't think any regular citizen should be happy about the clear lack of leadership that our political and police leaders have shown during those weeks of occupation. I also don't like how it sets a precedence for calling in the Emergency Act when I believe the incident could have been handled differently, in a more efficient and timely manner, and using laws that are less invasive. But what has happened has happened, and we can't change that.

The only thing we can change is -- I hope everyone -- esp those in leadership positions -- have learned a thing or two from the Convoy occupation, and actually grow some balls next time to keep these idiots in check before things blow up as big as it did. But so far, based on other incidents that I've seen, esp with how big of a mess RCMP and policing in Canada are, I am not keeping my hopes up.

[westopher]

That just says kind of the same thing.
The policing is a civic issue, and a small city like ottawa is not equipped to handle an influx of thousands of shit disturbers, because it’s simply unexpected. That can’t be attributed to Trudeau or the federal government.
I also understand the hesitancy to engage with the protest if the force is unprepared for a violent clash with that many people, as there were most certainly threats of violence in the protest, as well as a certain recent attempted coup in our crack den neighbours house down south.
The emergency act did absolutely zero to affect the lives of any regular citizen across Canada during its use. It solved the problem. It didn’t result in the erosion of any freedoms of anyone across Canada, including the right to peaceful protest, as last I checked there’s a fucking protest/rally every single day here in Vancouver, and as long as it’s not impacting regular citizens in an unreasonable manner, it’s allowed to operate exactly as expected.

[Traum]

For the Freedumb Convoy and its Ottawa occupation, I'd have to disagree that it is only a civic policing issue. The band had been publicizing their plans and drumming up support for weeks, and they assembled and drove through Canada to amass in Ottawa in the lead up to the occupation. The City of Ottawa, its local police, Ontario, OPP, and RCMP are all fully aware of it, and they should have made plans for different scenarios to deal with the occupation, instead of just letting it run and dealt with it in the ad hoc political hot potato manner that ended up happening. It was just a clear lack of leadership and sense of responsibility from all the parties that should have been involved in the first place.

By comparison, the Nova Scotia shooting is an unexpected event, even though there had been signs of it happening in the days before the actual shooting spree. But even with the inquiry that is going on for it now, we can see how people in leadership positions -- most notably Lucki (RCMP Commissioner), Blair (federal minister of public safety), Trudeau and the Liberals -- are once again all showing all the wrong signs for a proper handling of the horrible incident. Instead of doing things in the interest of public good, they are seeking political favours, trying to take advantage of a tragic incident to further their own political agendas, and denying responsibility on improper behaviour.

I guess that is a somewhat separate issue from what Westopher is referring to (on how the Emergency Act took away our freedoms). But both incidents point to the same root cause -- how our people in positions of leadership are consistently dropping the ball, and only focusing on their own selfish interests, instead of pursuing the public good that their positions are supposed to build.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by westopher

That just says kind of the same thing.
The policing is a civic issue, and a small city like ottawa is not equipped to handle an influx of thousands of shit disturbers, because it’s simply unexpected. That can’t be attributed to Trudeau or the federal government.
I also understand the hesitancy to engage with the protest if the force is unprepared for a violent clash with that many people, as there were most certainly threats of violence in the protest, as well as a certain recent attempted coup in our crack den neighbours house down south.
The emergency act did absolutely zero to affect the lives of any regular citizen across Canada during its use. It solved the problem. It didn’t result in the erosion of any freedoms of anyone across Canada, including the right to peaceful protest, as last I checked there’s a fucking protest/rally every single day here in Vancouver, and as long as it’s not impacting regular citizens in an unreasonable manner, it’s allowed to operate exactly as expected.

“A small city like Ottawa” you mean the capital of Canada?

Come on. This is such a slippery slope using the emergencies act and calling it because of the reasons Traum outlined just underlines how incompetent everyone involved in this was.

The attitude of “it didn’t effect me so who cares” is a dangerous one.

[westopher]

I’d hardly say using a mass gun casualty to enact gun laws is a political agenda more than it is about public safety. The motivation behind it is for the sake of public protection. I will concede that if it puts public safety or conclusions of an investigation at risk then it’s poorly thought out, however, the gunman was dead, no safety risks would have been posed, and the saying “the end justifies the means” rings true.
Finger pointing from a disorganized RCMP investigation is nothing new, and the fact is that liberals aren’t trying to put in gun laws because they like it and think it’s fun.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

“A small city like Ottawa” you mean the capital of Canada?

Come on. This is such a slippery slope using the emergencies act and calling it because of the reasons Traum outlined just underlines how incompetent everyone involved in this was.

The attitude of “it didn’t effect me so who cares” is a dangerous one.

You know the capital of Canada doesn’t mean it has the most people in Canada right? There is less than a million people in ottawa and if you think that any given time they are prepared for thousands of people to converge on their city I don’t know what I can tell you about how a police force works.
The slippery slope argument holds no weight. It literally affected no one in the general public. Not just me. Seizing of assets related to crime and funds directed to fund an occupation isn’t new.

[CivicBlues]

Imagine going from:

"The government should have seen 9/11 coming and done more to stop it"

to

"Yeah that Osama guy wasn't such a bad fellow, where do I sign up?"

[Hondaracer]

I’m moreso saying, everyone knew this was coming. The size of the city is irrelevant. This is the capital of the country and they had fair warning what was coming and did nothing to prevent it. Ottawa is still inside Ontario, the OPP has 5000 uniformed officers, 1/4 of the entire RCMP force.

[Hondaracer]

Nevermind read that wrong

[whitev70r]

First of all, I don't even know what the hell they are protesting anymore ... all mandates are removed. Can someone tell me what the hell they are protesting ... I mean ... what a waste of time.

[Traum]

The controversy with the Nova Scotia shooting inquiry isn't about how the RCMP has dropped the ball in handling that incident. It is more about how Lucki is abusing her position as the RCMP commissioner to either seek political favour from the Trudeau gov, or worse, how the RCMP commissioner is colluding with the PM / Minister of Public Safety to score political points for the governing Liberals.

The Liberals wanting to enact gun laws is actually a separate discussion.

It just goes back to the point that our political leaders as well as our police commissioner / police chiefs are all useless / spineless self-serving individuals.

Originally Posted by westopher

I’d hardly say using a mass gun casualty to enact gun laws is a political agenda more than it is about public safety. The motivation behind it is for the sake of public protection. I will concede that if it puts public safety or conclusions of an investigation at risk then it’s poorly thought out, however, the gunman was dead, no safety risks would have been posed, and the saying “the end justifies the means” rings true.
Finger pointing from a disorganized RCMP investigation is nothing new, and the fact is that liberals aren’t trying to put in gun laws because they like it and think it’s fun.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

First of all, I don't even know what the hell they are protesting anymore ... all mandates are removed. Can someone tell me what the hell they are protesting ... I mean ... what a waste of time.

Their goal post keeps shifting and changing. Now, some of the faction is calling for the re-instatement and compensation for government employees who refused vaccination at the time and were laid off / barred from work. I would say this is demand is the most legit out of all the ridiculous claims that the Convoy folks are trying to protest against.

Some of the radical diehards are calling for the removal and prosecution of government leaders and provincial health officers for endangering the health and lives of Canadian public by putting them through the multiple rounds of COVID vaccination. This goes straight back to their nutcase claims of how the vaccines are toxic / unsafe / ineffective / kills children and baby Jesus.

At the core of it, it is just a bunch of radical anti-gov idiots that are against anything and everything the government puts forth.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Traum

At the time when Trudeau called up the Emergency Act to deal with the Freedumb Convoy, there have been a good amount of criticism saying that the Convoy could have been dealt with using other laws that already exist, and that going to the Emergency Act is an overkill.

I agree with many of the critics that our set of existing laws could already have dealt with the convoy. At the same time, it was also evident to me that the Convoy became a political hot potato that a lot of people in leadership positions -- be it the Ottawa mayor, the OPS chief, Doug Ford, the federal gov, etc. -- did not want to touch and be responsible for.

imo blaming Trudeau is just a distraction. The fact that all these people allowed it to get to the point where Trudeau could call in the Emergency Act should be a far larger concern than Trudeau doing it. Multiple people had to fail in multiple ways for it to even get to that point and they should take the majority of the blame here.

[sdubfid]

The Canucks reaching the Stanley cup finals causes more damage than any recent convoy has.

[68style]

No.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

First of all, I don't even know what the hell they are protesting anymore ... all mandates are removed. Can someone tell me what the hell they are protesting ... I mean ... what a waste of time.

Because it never had anything to do with the mandates, they are anti-democratic, akin to how the Republicans are acting in the US. They will protest until JT is effectively out of office and the Cons/PPC are voted in.

New-age conservatism does not believe in democracy, and would happily see us in a dictatorship if it meant their values and ideals are enshrined.

[westopher]

All they truly want is freedom. As long as that comes with taking away the freedom of anyone who believes in anything different.

[whitev70r]

^ damn ... they should find an uninhabited island somewhere and they can have all the freedom in the world they want. Then I want to see them go Lord of the Flies on each other.

What could they possibly complain about here in Canada ??!!

[68style]

I’m not sure why they equate freedom with dictatorships though. That’s the wildest part to me.

[underscore]

They want to be free to oppress anyone they don't like.

[68style]

But............... they will also get oppressed lol

It's all blue collar slobs mostly salavating over this stuff. The odd white collar guy who doesn't like taxes/enviro standards jumps in or because he can be their leader and feel powerful... but they aren't exactly going to get taken care of when their grand overlord starts oppressing the entire country.