Canadian politics thread

[Bouncing Bettys]

Frankly, JWR sounded fake as fuck in that recording she made.

[westopher]

Three sides to every story. JWRs, Trudeaus and the truth. I have a feeling none of them will coincide all that well.

[carisear]

meh, the liberals really had no choice but to kick jwr out. philpott on the other hand ... maaaan, that's bad.

Trudeau was in a no win situation. every (in)action he took to this point put him here, and it's fully deserved.

This totally gives ammunition to all other parties. the attacks on him have already started, and won't stop until the election.

The only thing they have going for them is that scheer is underwhelming.

[Traum]

I agree that Trudeau was in a no-win situation, and that the current outcome is fully deserved as a result of his own stupid decisions. Still, I find that kicking JWR out of caucus has to be the worst possible option out of all the different ones he could have chosen. He would have been pissing off his own party and caucus members by keeping JWR, but at least he should have had some degree of control over those members over what they say or do. But by expelling JWR, JT has no control over how the public or the opposition will react to the explusion.

It is only a mere 6 months. Surely JT could have kept JWR on until the election is over. That would have been less damaging for the Liberals than what they have done now.

[DragonChi]

Yeah, JWR sounded like she had a huge attitude problem in that secret recording too. Treasonous and backstabbing to the party. JT finally showed some balls.

[jasonturbo]

JT’s speech to the liberal caucus was terrible, such a smug bunch of cunts.

[DragonChi]

He's starting to lose it that's for sure. Just like how it was snarky to that protester at his donor's dinner event.

[westopher]

I'm not surprised though. Could you imagine being a politician in Canada (or anywhere) right now? Death threats from the yellow vest protesters about a tax that will cost you $250 a year (and come with a $300 rebate.) At least 25% of the population at any given time despising you for your decisions without even knowing what the decisions were for, never mind what the results of the decision will be.
Listening to conservatives talk about what a failure you are for not getting a pipeline built, when they accomplished nothing of the sort in the 8 years they had in power. Then having the other half of the country say that you are failing at protecting the environment. Being pulled side to side with no give from either direction.
The political divide is the largest its ever been, public, and government. You have government parties playing the most partisan political games we have ever seen, in our lifetimes, with no regard for the public well being. Black or white for every decision with no interest in compromise to find out what is best for the citizens of their country.

[twitchyzero]

don't know if coming clean is the best move
but damage obviously can't be contained at this point and i feel like this is the worst option chosen when you're trying to move the party forward with an election so close

Mr. Trudeau and the Liberal caucus have been channelling Donald Trump and the Republican Party, with Ms. Wilson-Raybould and Ms. Philpott jointly playing the role of former FBI director James Comey, ejected from the President’s orbit for refusing to play ball on the Russia investigation.

Remember too that this is actually the second time Mr. Trudeau has removed Ms. Wilson-Raybould as an impediment. As the released recording of Ms. Wilson-Raybould’s December call with Michael Wernick demonstrates, the former attorney-general knew full well the price of her continued refusal to offer a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) to SNC-Lavalin. “I think [Mr. Trudeau]'s going to find a way to get it done, one way or the other. He’s in that kind of mood,” Mr. Wernick warns. “I’m waiting for the ... other shoe to drop,” Ms. Wilson-Raybould says later, at the end of the call. Three weeks later, that sole landed, with Ms. Wilson-Raybould feeling that she was removed from Justice because of her unwillingness to budge on SNC-Lavalin.

All that was missing was a close-up of Mr. Trudeau at his desk screaming “you’re fired.”

In his response to the burgeoning scandal, the day The Globe and Mail broke the story, Mr. Trudeau dismissed it as “false” – effectively deploying Mr. Trump’s favourite dodge, “fake news.” When Ms. Wilson-Raybould later put a considerable trove of facts on the table at a parliamentary committee, Mr. Trudeau discounted them without offering up any of his own evidence. It was hardly the response of a party committed, at least in theory, to “evidence-based policy.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...s-trudeau-has/

[Bouncing Bettys]

My understanding and opinions of this fiasco:

- SNC-Lavalin is a shady, greedy company which operated the same way under Liberal and Conservative governments.

- SNC-Lavalin threatens to remove its operations from Canada should the government not protect them from punishment for their shady, greedy practices. A corporation reaping the benefits of a country while shirking all the responsibilities that come with it, nothing new here.

What the Liberals did wrong (on the premise that they were indeed trying to save jobs):

- Believed SNC-Lavalin's threats and used typical shady Parliament Hill tactics to get them out of trouble and convince them to stay. If operations in Canada were of any value to SNC-Lavalin, there is a good chance their competitors would also see that value. Should have told them they are on their own in the investigation and to get fucked if they threaten to leave. Bring in a competitor who doesn't operate so illicitly and will play ball with Canada.

- Been so far up their own asses with Truth and Reconciliation and Feminism to realize that they should be cautious when bringing in outsiders to the dirty politics of Ottawa which no party is immune to. Attempting to appease those two groups, which are known to be difficult and willing to back stab to further their cause, was bound to cause problems. Such is the nature of Identity politics .

I can sympathize with Trudeau and the Liberals, if indeed they were trying to save jobs, but they could have shown some balls. That way they would never had to put their snake in the grass, JWR, in a tough spot in the first place. This appeasement and apology crap ain't working.

[Infiniti]

Neophyte MPs let their positions of power get to their heads. Seasoned ministers would've never behaved like this. True politicians put their party's interest before their own.

On that note, JT's first mistake was appointing these individuals to ministerial positions.

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by westopher

The political divide is the largest its ever been, public, and government. You have government parties playing the most partisan political games we have ever seen, in our lifetimes, with no regard for the public well being. Black or white for every decision with no interest in compromise to find out what is best for the citizens of their country.

You say citizens like we're one group of like individuals. But the truth is that Canadian society is as divided as it's ever been before. Your needs are totally different than mine, which are totally different than Sanbir's from Surrey, or Mike from Coquitlam.

Our politics are divided into three groups with the right, the left, and the muddled middle. Add to that social media and everyone thinking that their opinion matters, and you have the foundation for division.

The US political machine is easy to criticize, but we're not too far off. The only difference is that Canadians tend to soften the blow, while Trump et al are in your face.

[westopher]

Honestly I’m a bit confused by your response.
I said the political divide of the public is the largest it’s ever been. Not sure how I’m implying that people are a group of like inividuals.
It does allow me to bring up a good point though, is that regardless of specific needs or wants of individual groups are, for us to function as a group as well as possible, there needs to be compromise from everyone to allow for growth. Environment, economy and a social safety net ALL need to be addressed by any government moving forward, and the partisan politics of acting like we can only have one or the other (conservative/NDP/green) extremes still makes it he liberals platforms the most appealing to most Canadians. It’s a shame that they threw away what could have been the best opportunity of building a bridge with lies and stupid decisions.

[DragonChi]

I think there are somethings that you, Sanbir, and Mike have in common. A safe community, being able to raise a family, meaningful and well compensated work, home afford-ability. To name a few. Generally, after the few basic human needs are met, I don't see what else the government should provide. I see the basic needs as; food, shelter, water, social facilities.

[westopher]

Absolutely. Realistically most humans want the same thing, just disagree with how to get there, and what is worthy of being sacrificed for it.

[whitev70r]

I guess JT is a feminist, he turfed JWR and Philpott just as he would have if they were men.

[Traum]

I am hardly surprised, but is $1.3B enough for JT to buy votes from Toronto?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...isis-1.5086114

Feds commit $1.3B to repair crumbling Toronto community housing units
Lauren Pelley, Philip Lee-Shanok · CBC News · Posted: Apr 05, 2019 12:34 PM ET | Last Updated: 25 minutes ago

Financial relief to help fix Toronto's decade-long problem of crumbling community housing stock could finally be on the way.

The federal government announced a $1.3-billion funding infusion on Friday aimed at helping the city agency that oversees public housing with a $1.6-billion repair backlog. About $810-million will come in the form of loans, while the remaining $530-million will be contributions. All of the funding will be distributed over a 10-year period.

The money for overdue repairs to Toronto Community Housing (TCH) will come from the $13.2-billion National Housing Co-Investment Fund, launched in May 2018. The federal initiative hopes to create up to 60,000 new homes and repair some 240,000 existing units nationwide over the next 10 years.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau met with Mayor John Tory at a TCH building in Scarborough to announce the funding boost. The news conference was delayed nearly an hour by protesters who continued to shout while the prime minister spoke.

The $1.3 billion will go to renovating some 58,000 TCH units, according to the federal government. The work is scheduled to begin this spring.

TCH had already budgeted $313 million for repairs this year.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Traum

I am hardly surprised, but is $1.3M enough for JT to buy votes from Toronto?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...isis-1.5086114

It's a Billion.

That's a lot of money.

[Traum]

Thank you for the correction, and I am embarrassed by the brain fart / fingers typing on their own incident there. When I saw the news, it did register as a $1B+ dollar figure in my head.

When it comes to housing, esp public housing, though, I am not really sure whether $1B+ is enough. It is of course still a tremendous amount of money. But how many units of housing can that generate?

Some quick Googling seems to suggest that the average 1-bedroom condo price is ~$500k, and 2-bedroom units are ~$600k. Obviously, these are going to be very different from community housing units, but community housing units would have their additional costs or cost reductions associated with it as well. For the sake of argument, let's say each unit can be built for $400k. When you crunch the math, that's only 2500 units. Toronto has a 2.7M+ population.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Traum

I am hardly surprised, but is $1.3B enough for JT to buy votes from Toronto?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...isis-1.5086114

What about Van housing issue.... oh wait our population doesn't matter coz we are just at tiny bit of vote for JT.

[mikemhg]

I'm curious what people's thoughts are on this one in relation to the US Government's involvement with this whole fiasco?

I find it strikingly odd that the FAA and US Gov isn't taking more heat on this one, rather than just Boeing. I guess we're all so used to the corruption in their agencies that it's simply not being talked about?

FAA covered this whole thing up, and allowed Boeing to essentially fast track the certification process in order for them to stay competitive with foreign competitors.

I think it certainly makes this whole SNC Lavalin issue with Trudeau seem all the more silly and inconsequential in comparison. Makes you also wonder what types of cover ups are occurring within the FDA, EPA, etc, as well.

Certainly makes me appreciate being Canadian, we seem to have a much more accountable government to the people in this country.

Not to change the subject of this thread.

[Traum]

From what I've read, FAA has certainly cut a LOT of corners and breaks for Boeing to fast track the approval process for the newer 737 MAX jets. I am surprised I don't see more media reporting and public outrage against this as well. But bear in mind that the FAA generally seems to have a very good public image, and their past records prior to this 737 MAX scandal has been very good -- or at least that's what it seems like to a layperson such as myself. They are thorough in their investigations when accidents happen, and they learn from their mistakes and implement new rules and changes as a result of accidents and their investigations. In that sense, I think the public has been giving them the benefit of the doubt, and FAA continues to ride on the goodwill they have garnered in the past.

I'd find it hard to believe that there is no US gov involvement in gently "encouraging" FAA to go easy on Boeing's 737 MAX's approval process. But in the public world, we operate on hard evidence, not conjectures and conspiracy theories. In the absence of any hard evidence -- which is what we have at the moment -- we can't accuse the US gov of influencing the FAA to give Boeing preferential treatment.

The only parallel I'd draw between the SNC Lavalin scandal and any recent US political scandals are -- you see how much of an amateur Trudeau is compared to the well-oiled US political machine. If JT were as good and as smooth as the US politicians are, he would easily have insulated himself from any sort of involvement at all, much in the same way Trump has managed to avoid all direct responsibilities in Mueller's report.

[Manic!]

MONTREAL—Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer met with the head of SNC-Lavalin in May 2018 to discuss criminal charges facing the Quebec construction giant.

Scheer’s office confirmed the Conservative leader discussed the “deferred prosecution agreement” sought by SNC-Lavalin to avoid criminal fraud and corruption charges. The meeting with SNC-Lavalin CEO Neil Bruce took place last May 29, months after the Liberal government introduced so-called “DPAs” in its omnibus budget bill.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...l-charges.html

https://canadanewsmedia.ca/2019/02/1...-toronto-star/

[twitchyzero]

JT is getting more petty & Trump-like by the hour

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...ents-1.5088175

[DragonChi]

When JT starts appointing family members into Parliament, Setting up alien detention centres, or signing away National Parks for industrial zoning. Then I will start calling him Trump like.