Canadian politics thread

[Hondaracer]

Lol.. Kennedy Stewart absolutely useless and turning Vancouver into a total shit hole

A “business person” gets elected and it’s “omg conservative values!!!”

Jesus Christ.

[Manic!]

Doug now wants a recount. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...tion-1.6619798

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Also the RCMP is such a bloated, corrupt, organization I don’t see the reasoning behind peoples want to keep it. I think as much as you can distance yourself from federal oversight the better.

It’s also pretty clear that it hasn’t been very effective in reducing crime rates etc.

I don't think any other police organisation is that much less corrupt is it? Police departments are in it for themselves - VPD is one of the worst when it comes to that.

[whitev70r]

Apparently, RCMP wants to get out of being contracted to do regional policing. So if RCMP doesn't want Surrey back ... new mayor won't be able to undo.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Quite frankly, I'm surprised to see people here throwing shade at a "business-like" approach to running government. 10 years ago, people here hated Gregor Robertson and thought that his progressive policies, like bike lanes, were destroying the old Vancouver.

I personally think we should pay our politicians more. Municipal politics is a full time job and we need smart and thoughtful people to leave their 6-figure jobs and serve.

There's "business-like" and there's "I ran my own business so I can run gov't better". The latter is what folks like Trump, Thatcher, Reagan, and Bush brought to office and look what that got us - rich got richer and gov't services were corrupted and degraded. Business and gov't don't operate on the same rules - Ken's bagel store doesn't have to listen and serve everyone, it's not going to work that way when he's mayor.

re: Gregor - he was Vancouver's longest serving mayor who got elected 3 times so clearly he wasn't "hated". People just got tired of him. He was a businessman (founder of Happy Planet) before going into gov't but he never carried the attitude of "I know better because I ran a business". Our mayors since 1981 have been Harcourt, Gordon Campbell, Owen, Larry Campbell, Sullivan, Robertson, and Stewart (whole lotta white guys) - is any one truly better than the other? I suspect time will show that Robertson was one who made a lot more progress for Vancouver than the others.

FWIW, I've now lived in Burnaby for a year, a city that was under the boot of a conservative mayor (Corrigan) for most of the past 20 years and while Burnaby is a nice city that's competently run it's no Vancouver. It's nowhere near as liveable a city and the lack of vision from its leaders is kinda shocking. Vancouver City Hall has its warts but it's accomplished far more than Burnaby City Hall.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by supafamous

I don't think any other police organisation is that much less corrupt is it? Police departments are in it for themselves - VPD is one of the worst when it comes to that.

I dunno.. from my understanding VPD is much harder to get in and you don’t have this massive safety net you do with the RCMP ie. when you fuck up or perform poorly you just get shifted around. I’ve had very little interaction with either but my experiences with the VPD seem much more professional and officers actually follow up etc.

You’re also having police police the areas they live in as opposed to the RCMP. As I said I the OP I think less federal jurisdiction the better.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by supafamous

There's "business-like" and there's "I ran my own business so I can run gov't better". The latter is what folks like Trump, Thatcher, Reagan, and Bush brought to office and look what that got us - rich got richer and gov't services were corrupted and degraded. Business and gov't don't operate on the same rules - Ken's bagel store doesn't have to listen and serve everyone, it's not going to work that way when he's mayor.

re: Gregor - he was Vancouver's longest serving mayor who got elected 3 times so clearly he wasn't "hated". People just got tired of him. He was a businessman (founder of Happy Planet) before going into gov't but he never carried the attitude of "I know better because I ran a business". Our mayors since 1981 have been Harcourt, Gordon Campbell, Owen, Larry Campbell, Sullivan, Robertson, and Stewart (whole lotta white guys) - is any one truly better than the other? I suspect time will show that Robertson was one who made a lot more progress for Vancouver than the others.

FWIW, I've now lived in Burnaby for a year, a city that was under the boot of a conservative mayor (Corrigan) for most of the past 20 years and while Burnaby is a nice city that's competently run it's no Vancouver. It's nowhere near as liveable a city and the lack of vision from its leaders is kinda shocking. Vancouver City Hall has its warts but it's accomplished far more than Burnaby City Hall.

We didn't even have a second mayor candidate run

Hurley won by default, I found that somewhat funny.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I dunno.. from my understanding VPD is much harder to get in and you don’t have this massive safety net you do with the RCMP ie. when you fuck up or perform poorly you just get shifted around. I’ve had very little interaction with either but my experiences with the VPD seem much more professional and officers actually follow up etc.

You’re also having police police the areas they live in as opposed to the RCMP. As I said I the OP I think less federal jurisdiction the better.

Lol. The amount of controversy the VPD has been involved in over the last 5 years just gets ignored because you decided you don’t like the RCMP eh?

[Hondaracer]

Yea those minor issues and controversies are very upsetting compared to things like the Nova Scotia shooting, decades of discrimination, hiding the truth from the public, being in the back pocket of politicians etc.

I’m saying this just anecdotally but it really seems like in the lower mainland, the cities with regional police forces do a much better job at dealing with crime (albeit Vancouver is obviously one where the VPD are handcuffed by pathetic judges and a revolving door at the federal level)

[westopher]

Ahhh minor issues like killing unarmed people, missing the body of a murdered 11 year old girl in an SRO when they found another body in the same fuckin unit, racial profiling of a black former judge, indigenous grandfather and grandchild, ruling out foul play when a missing indigenous woman was found with half her skull crushed in after sitting in a back yard in point grey for months, multiple assaults, sexual misconduct leading to the suicide of a young female officer. Just a few minor things noted in the last couple years.

[supafamous]

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...thers-disagree

Quoting just the headlines, you can go read the rest if you like:

Ex-police chief believes it's too hard to fire bad cops in B.C. Others disagree.
What constitutes a fireable offence for a police officer? In some cases, B.C. police have committed offences that could send a regular person to jail, lied to other investigators about it, and stayed on the job.

I follow a fair bit of Black Lives Matters advocates so I see a lot of the news when cops go bad (like the one who was doing a wellness check on a 75 year old lady with dementia who was subsequently shot twice by the cop while the cop was standing 8 feet away from her) so I have a pretty negative opinion of the police force despite the fact that most of them do good work.

When I read stories about the police union sticking up for bad cops or when they break the rules and get away with it I get pretty steamed. The bar for a cop is higher than the bar for an average person and the conduct of folks like the current VPD chief and others is unimpressive to say the least.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by supafamous

FWIW, I've now lived in Burnaby for a year, a city that was under the boot of a conservative mayor (Corrigan) for most of the past 20 years and while Burnaby is a nice city that's competently run it's no Vancouver. It's nowhere near as liveable a city and the lack of vision from its leaders is kinda shocking. Vancouver City Hall has its warts but it's accomplished far more than Burnaby City Hall.

I'm curious to know what you find Vancouver City Hall has done that is far more accomplished than Burnaby City Hall.

The few things I can think of are:
- a far more extensive hospital network
- significantly better lit streets
- bike lanes!

On the other hand, Burnaby is significantly better at:
- managing the municipal finances
- a signficantly better municipal recreations program -- this is *HUGE* for parents!
- more efficient (building) permit process
- an infinitely more competent snow removal program

I am not too familiar with how Burnaby runs its public schools, but I can tell you that VSB absolutely suck donkey ballz. For quite some time, I have also been extremely disgusted by the woke CoV City Council. (Hopefully, Sim and his ABC folks will bring a much needed change in that regard.)

[SkinnyPupp]

The last person you want in government is someone who will run it like a business.

That is like the exact literal opposite of what is good for 99% of the people.

The goal of a business, especially a public company, is to make money and that's it. Running a government means you need to spend a shit ton of money on stuff that is very much not profitable. These people HATE doing that. It goes against everything they know.

Their idea of public support is along the lines of "just let rich people get richer, and it will trickle down to the rest of the population in the form of jobs! And all these job-having people will pay more in taxes" fucking

[Hondaracer]

Hahahahahah! Our “justice system” is so good!!

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/1...after-release/

“At the time of his arrest, the suspect had been out of custody for two hours, 18 minutes,” VPD said in the statement.

He was accused of striking a 19-year-old Asian woman over the head with a weapon on Sept. 27 near Dunsmuir and Cambie streets. Police believe the attack was racially motivated.

Last year, Majidpour pleaded guilty to counts of mischief, uttering threats, and assault with a weapon after being charged with criminal harassment in an unrelated incident for following a woman.

He was sentenced to one day in jail, 180 days in custody pre-sentencing, and placed on probation for 12 months.

And you fucking wonder how that young Mountie got killed? Do you really need a fucking script to understand why??

[sdubfid]

There are many benefits to running government like a private business that would benefit everyone. income and expenses like a business. Spacex vs nasa is a good example. Governments do not innovate. We still vote (at the cost of $600 million) behind a cardboard box yet everyone can securely transfer large sums of money from a smartphone.

Canada has spent at least $600 billion directly related to COVID with nothing to show for it. The estimate to build St. Paul’s hospital is $2 billion. But everyone knows how government projects work, over time and over budget. So Canada could have had bought 300 new hospitals or provided a tiny home for every man woman and child in country. The majority of lifelong politicians cannot assemble Lego let alone run multi million dollar budgets or projects.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by sdubfid

There are many benefits to running government like a private business that would benefit everyone. income and expenses like a business. Spacex vs nasa is a good example. Governments do not innovate. We still vote (at the cost of $600 million) behind a cardboard box yet everyone can securely transfer large sums of money from a smartphone.

Canada has spent at least $600 billion directly related to COVID with nothing to show for it. The estimate to build St. Paul’s hospital is $2 billion. But everyone knows how government projects work, over time and over budget. So Canada could have had bought 300 new hospitals or provided a tiny home for every man woman and child in country. The majority of lifelong politicians cannot assemble Lego let alone run multi million dollar budgets or projects.

The only thing I'd argue is the over budget thing on the Hospital, it won't happen because of the type of project it is. Once the Hospital budgets are confirmed and the projects are awarded the price is fixed based on certain design criteria, that's the good thing about P3 Projects and Public Private Partnerships. The majority of the risk is assumed by the General Contractor that wins the project, St Paul's Project is probably going to be a disaster for PCL because they were awarded before the pandemic and most of the construction material costs have doubled (Reasonable escalations would have been 5-7% a year), the General Contractor will have to eat those costs, they can't go back to the client ie the tax payer.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

I'm curious to know what you find Vancouver City Hall has done that is far more accomplished than Burnaby City Hall.

The few things I can think of are:
- a far more extensive hospital network
- significantly better lit streets
- bike lanes!

On the other hand, Burnaby is significantly better at:
- managing the municipal finances
- a signficantly better municipal recreations program -- this is *HUGE* for parents!
- more efficient (building) permit process
- an infinitely more competent snow removal program

I am not too familiar with how Burnaby runs its public schools, but I can tell you that VSB absolutely suck donkey ballz. For quite some time, I have also been extremely disgusted by the woke CoV City Council. (Hopefully, Sim and his ABC folks will bring a much needed change in that regard.)

There's a dark joke in some quarters of Burnaby that the only time Burnaby builds a crosswalk is when someone dies from getting hit by a car (Background: https://www.burnabynow.com/opinion/o...hanges-4273700 and https://www.burnabynow.com/local-new...irotto-3128208)

That joke has some truth to it though as the city also didn't roll out strong renter protections till a large series of protests and sit-ins happened about demovictions around Metrotown. The Mayor (and council) basically told the renters to "Go F*** Yourselves" and then the mayor was voted out which led to renter protections. The snow removal program also didn't improve till the Mayor was voted out - I wasn't here for it but I heard it wasn't great before.

The same goes for their approach to housing - don't get distracted by all the towers that are going up b/c the city has otherwise done jack shit in terms of providing more housing whether that's more duplexes or townhouses or social housing. They still don't have laneways approved and their legal suite policy only allows them if they're below ground (condemning the "poors" to living like dwarves). Despite a population density that's 40% of Vancouver's they only grew their population by 28% since 2001 versus Vancouver's 21% (Canada grew 22%) - they have so much room but could hardly care less about the housing crisis despite two major transit lines that run through the city.

Streetlights are garbage as you've noted - the standard for how far apart lights are in Burnaby is Vancouver's minimum standard and it's not considered a public safety problem, it's the responsibility of residents to gather signatures in support of adding a streetlight on their block and the residents have to pay for the light themselves (I would gladly pay 10x the cost out of my sense of civic duty). As a result you'll drive down a street where the lights come and go in really weird ways (see Burke between Boundary/Willingdon).

Sidewalks and crosswalks are equally bad - sidewalks often randomly end, don't exist when they should, or lack ramps for accessibility (wheelchair and strollers). Crosswalks require someone to die before they get built. Pedestrians are an afterthought in Burnaby - Vancouver may have a lot of bleeding hearts in city hall but the bleeding hearts do mean that nearly everyone in the city can get around. In Burnaby it's thoughts and prayers if you're in a wheelchair, have a stroller or have a mobility issue even in many busy areas.

All of these are fixable problems because Burnaby has a $2 BILLION reserve fund which represents 3 years of their annual budget - they could stop collecting fees for 3 years and still be totally debt free. Burnaby is quite proud of this reserve fund but it's also an embarrassment because it's not like the city has done a good job providing services and infrastructure - there are plenty of street lights, crosswalks, sidewalks, social housing, transit improvements etc that could be built with that money but the city prefers to brag about its great finances. Burnaby spends about $200m/yr on infrastructure so they could double the spend for 10 years and and likely could collect another $2B in fees to build up the fund.

At the end of the day Burnaby is still a good city but it got there not because of great management, it got there with uninspired, competent management and great circumstances (next to Vancouver!). I'd rank it in the top 5 of GVRD cities (Vancouver, North Van, New West, Burnaby, Coquitlam) but it should be clear #2 to Vancouver.

It's wasted opportunity - it has a major university, a great college, two major transit lines, a big highway, two accessible lakes, access to water etc and this is the best they can do?!?! WTF?

I have a lot of empathy for Vancouver City Hall - their job is way harder than Burnaby's or any other GVRD city. It's the densest city in Canada (pop >5,000), is our financial heart, and has a super diverse community (ethnicity and politics) that's quite outspoken so balancing all those needs is really hard. Burnaby could have ridden Vancouver's coattails all these years and also become a great city.

[sdubfid]

Originally Posted by quasi

The only thing I'd argue is the over budget thing on the Hospital, it won't happen because of the type of project it is. Once the Hospital budgets are confirmed and the projects are awarded the price is fixed based on certain design criteria, that's the good thing about P3 Projects and Public Private Partnerships. The majority of the risk is assumed by the General Contractor that wins the project, St Paul's Project is probably going to be a disaster for PCL because they were awarded before the pandemic and most of the construction material costs have doubled (Reasonable escalations would have been 5-7% a year), the General Contractor will have to eat those costs, they can't go back to the client ie the tax payer.

-You are correct in that scenario, I was more using the costs as an example (regardless of federal, provincial, municipal) that instead of fixing/improving the leak (problems with healthcare) that they just bought bigger buckets. A good business minded person or homeowner would agree that fixing the leaks is the better long term solution.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by supafamous

There's a dark joke in some quarters of Burnaby that the only time Burnaby builds a crosswalk is when someone dies from getting hit by a car (Background: https://www.burnabynow.com/opinion/o...hanges-4273700 and https://www.burnabynow.com/local-new...irotto-3128208)

That joke has some truth to it though as the city also didn't roll out strong renter protections till a large series of protests and sit-ins happened about demovictions around Metrotown. The Mayor (and council) basically told the renters to "Go F*** Yourselves" and then the mayor was voted out which led to renter protections. The snow removal program also didn't improve till the Mayor was voted out - I wasn't here for it but I heard it wasn't great before.

The same goes for their approach to housing - don't get distracted by all the towers that are going up b/c the city has otherwise done jack shit in terms of providing more housing whether that's more duplexes or townhouses or social housing. They still don't have laneways approved and their legal suite policy only allows them if they're below ground (condemning the "poors" to living like dwarves). Despite a population density that's 40% of Vancouver's they only grew their population by 28% since 2001 versus Vancouver's 21% (Canada grew 22%) - they have so much room but could hardly care less about the housing crisis despite two major transit lines that run through the city.

Streetlights are garbage as you've noted - the standard for how far apart lights are in Burnaby is Vancouver's minimum standard and it's not considered a public safety problem, it's the responsibility of residents to gather signatures in support of adding a streetlight on their block and the residents have to pay for the light themselves (I would gladly pay 10x the cost out of my sense of civic duty). As a result you'll drive down a street where the lights come and go in really weird ways (see Burke between Boundary/Willingdon).

Sidewalks and crosswalks are equally bad - sidewalks often randomly end, don't exist when they should, or lack ramps for accessibility (wheelchair and strollers). Crosswalks require someone to die before they get built. Pedestrians are an afterthought in Burnaby - Vancouver may have a lot of bleeding hearts in city hall but the bleeding hearts do mean that nearly everyone in the city can get around. In Burnaby it's thoughts and prayers if you're in a wheelchair, have a stroller or have a mobility issue even in many busy areas.

All of these are fixable problems because Burnaby has a $2 BILLION reserve fund which represents 3 years of their annual budget - they could stop collecting fees for 3 years and still be totally debt free. Burnaby is quite proud of this reserve fund but it's also an embarrassment because it's not like the city has done a good job providing services and infrastructure - there are plenty of street lights, crosswalks, sidewalks, social housing, transit improvements etc that could be built with that money but the city prefers to brag about its great finances. Burnaby spends about $200m/yr on infrastructure so they could double the spend for 10 years and and likely could collect another $2B in fees to build up the fund.

At the end of the day Burnaby is still a good city but it got there not because of great management, it got there with uninspired, competent management and great circumstances (next to Vancouver!). I'd rank it in the top 5 of GVRD cities (Vancouver, North Van, New West, Burnaby, Coquitlam) but it should be clear #2 to Vancouver.

It's wasted opportunity - it has a major university, a great college, two major transit lines, a big highway, two accessible lakes, access to water etc and this is the best they can do?!?! WTF?

I have a lot of empathy for Vancouver City Hall - their job is way harder than Burnaby's or any other GVRD city. It's the densest city in Canada (pop >5,000), is our financial heart, and has a super diverse community (ethnicity and politics) that's quite outspoken so balancing all those needs is really hard. Burnaby could have ridden Vancouver's coattails all these years and also become a great city.

The only thing I'll give Burnaby credit for in regards to the rental buildings -- from what I read they are using part of that surplus to subsidize the rent for those that had their rental buildings knocked down for new condos. Essentially the city will grandfather their prior rent cost in the new buildings, or offer them a buyout (both using surplus funds).

Not sure if that's true or not, but I'd hope so.

It's a damn shame so many of those rental buildings are being knocked down in Burnaby for new condos, they were the last bastion of affordable housing in the Metrotown area.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

The only thing I'll give Burnaby credit for in regards to the rental buildings -- from what I read they are using part of that surplus to subsidize the rent for those that had their rental buildings knocked down for new condos. Essentially the city will grandfather their prior rent cost in the new buildings, or offer them a buyout (both using surplus funds).

Not sure if that's true or not, but I'd hope so.

It's a damn shame so many of those rental buildings are being knocked down in Burnaby for new condos, they were the last bastion of affordable housing in the Metrotown area.

Yeah, I don't know exactly where the money is coming from but they are subsidising displaced renters now. https://www.burnaby.ca/our-city/news...istance-policy

The policy now is so strong because City Hall screwed up so bad - at least some real good came out of it.

[whitev70r]

I thought that was a law or rule that was implemented across the board when a developer plans to destroy an older building and build a newer taller shinier one. If you displace renters, you have to provide an apt for them and they get dibs when the new building is finished. Prevent the reno-evictors. Is this just in Burnaby?

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

I thought that was a law or rule that was implemented across the board when a developer plans to destroy an older building and build a newer taller shinier one. If you displace renters, you have to provide an apt for them and they get dibs when the new building is finished. Prevent the reno-evictors. Is this just in Burnaby?

I think Vancouver has that law, not sure about other cities or if it's provincial. I think the diff is that Burnaby will subsidise the difference in rent as I don't believe the law requires that rent be the same in the new building. I might be wrong though.

[Tapioca]

What the heck happened to this place? 10 years ago, people praised Burnaby and couldn't stop themselves from making endless complaints about Gregor's bike lanes.

Here's a map of Vancouver depicting which neighbourhoods supported Kennedy and which supported Sim: https://twitter.com/j_mcelroy/status...VgJhJq3_w&s=19

No surprises really.

Article from the Vancouver Sun which reveals true polling and the strategy of winning over immigrant households:

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/col...uver-city-hall

[donk.]

Originally Posted by sdubfid

Canada has spent at least $600 billion directly related to COVID with nothing to show for it.

wow wow wow, slow down there, the 600 billion money printer made homeowners and stonk owners much richer, and started this recession!

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

The last person you want in government is someone who will run it like a business.

That is like the exact literal opposite of what is good for 99% of the people.

The goal of a business, especially a public company, is to make money and that's it. Running a government means you need to spend a shit ton of money on stuff that is very much not profitable. These people HATE doing that. It goes against everything they know.

Their idea of public support is along the lines of "just let rich people get richer, and it will trickle down to the rest of the population in the form of jobs! And all these job-having people will pay more in taxes" fucking

Technically, this is not true at all. A business needs to be accountable for its expenses and income, otherwise, it'd go bankrupt and cease to exist.

We have, for far too long, allowed the government to run with little to no accountability because no matter what happens, it's always going to be there. It'd never die.

And you know where the problem is? We have no political leaders with an actual vision. Political parties are too busy fighting for votes that all they do is try as hard as possible to sabotage the plan of the party in power or another party from gaining power.

Apple wouldn't be where it is today without the vision of Jobs. One could argue all they want, but it was him who first saw the potential of GUI. It was also him who saw the potential of a handheld device with a multi-touch interface. Neither were invented by Apple.

So, when politicians are too busy either pleasing their voters by buying votes (benefit plans) or passing laws with the least resistance path, you get what you are referring to "spending shit tons of money".

Think about it... who are the people we can usually vote for? Heir of powerful/rich families? Lawyers who learn nothing but to argue for the sake of argument? Or lifetime politicians who see getting elected as a career (hence $$$)? TV personalities or someone famous?

None of these people can prove that they have a vision of any kind.