Canadian politics thread

[J____]

Originally Posted by westopher

It does look like they are attempting to rectify the issues here in healthcare. They started with the GP pay model, teachers have been given a large raise as well. Nurses are set to renegotiate their contract in a month or so as well. Paramedics have had the $1/hour on call wage bullshit renegotiated. At least they are fairly openly looking at spending where it matters. It will take time to sort some shit out, but it’s good to see them putting in effort to these areas at least. Meanwhile Alberta is handing out “stimulus” cheques.
It’s funny when left leaning governments do it cons scream communism but when cons do it it’s “stimulating the economic growth.”

I'm no politician but wouldnt it make more sense to cancel income tax for nurses and doctors rather than increase their wages? Whats tthe point of increasing wage when the gov takes more of it back?

This would also make the industry much more attractive to new doctors and nurses. 10 years in school seems way more attractive then when giving 50% of your pay back to the government.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by J____

I'm no politician but wouldnt it make more sense to cancel income tax for nurses and doctors rather than increase their wages? Whats tthe point of increasing wage when the gov takes more of it back?

This would also make the industry much more attractive to new doctors and nurses. 10 years in school seems way more attractive then when giving 50% of your pay back to the government.

lol, you can't do that, for a few reasons.

1. People are assholes and will abuse the shit out of that. Look at farms and their mega mansions while they raise a small bed of peanuts and claim farmer status.
2. You set precedence - 30 years later, there's a huge teacher shortage. Let's cancel their income tax too! As soon as you make an exception for one, you open the floodgates and there's no returning from that.
3. Income tax is universal. Even before credits it's one of the only forms of tax that's both universal and unilateral. To fuck with that is literally unwinding one of the key elements to any functioning society.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by J____

I'm no politician but wouldnt it make more sense to cancel income tax for nurses and doctors rather than increase their wages? Whats tthe point of increasing wage when the gov takes more of it back?

This would also make the industry much more attractive to new doctors and nurses. 10 years in school seems way more attractive then when giving 50% of your pay back to the government.

I don’t quite understand the question “what’s the point of a raise when your taxes go up?”
If you make more money, you pay more taxes, and you also take home more money. More money is more money. It’s the same as every career in the country.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by J____

I'm no politician but wouldnt it make more sense to cancel income tax for nurses and doctors rather than increase their wages? Whats tthe point of increasing wage when the gov takes more of it back?

This would also make the industry much more attractive to new doctors and nurses. 10 years in school seems way more attractive then when giving 50% of your pay back to the government.

Originally Posted by westopher

I don’t quite understand the question “what’s the point of a raise when your taxes go up?”
If you make more money, you pay more taxes, and you also take home more money. More money is more money. It’s the same as every career in the country.

I don't understand why so many people have this misconception that you make more and you end up taking home the same or the gov't takes even more. Tax is a percentage and it never reaches 100%.

I can see why certain borderline families may not want more money as they would potentially lose some benefits, but the cut off is so damn low considering the median income nowadays it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[whitev70r]

From CRA website, here is how tax rate is applied:
Federal tax rates for 2022 (don't forget, there there is provincial tax, municipal tax)
15% on the first $50,197 of taxable income, plus
20.5% on the next $50,195 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 50,197 up to $100,392), plus
26% on the next $55,233 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $100,392 up to $155,625), plus
29% on the next $66,083 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 155,625 up to $221,708), plus
33% of taxable income over $221,708

On the topic of how to make it more attractive/reward/incentive for Dr's (and nurses), one way is to give some sort of healthcare workers allowance. Say for every year you work, you get an allowance/amount that you can deduct from gross income that you don't have to pay tax on. Eg. Every year you work in healthcare, you get $2000 tax deductible allowance (or whatever number they come up with). That will eventually add up and it rewards long term service in the healthcare.

[Traum]

A lot of doctors -- even when they work at hospitals or in public healthcare institutions -- are not paid by salary. Instead, they incorporate and the money is paid out to their business.

[whitev70r]

soft, lob pitch for @Hondaracer
Auditor General report on Covid

- $4.6B went to ineligible recipients
- 13.6 million doses expired before donation

The federal government succeeded in quickly securing and distributing COVID-19 vaccines and rolling out pandemic benefits to help people and backstop the economy, but wasted millions of doses and gave billions in benefits to ineligible recipients, the auditor general of Canada says.

Auditor General Karen Hogan's fall audits, which were released Tuesday, give the government a mixed pandemic report card, saying that while benefit programs were swift and did what they were supposed to do, they were also wasteful and lacked proper verification.

[68style]

I'm actually surprised the dosage expiring is so low.

But the ineligible recipients# is way too high........... that siad, that money ends up back in the economy so... blah... can't win situation, you put in enough checks and balances and the administration slows down to a crawl and people who need it suffer... you do it this way there's fraud... lesser of 2 evils, most of the fraud people probably blew the money right away on goods and services.

[CivicBlues]

And now we're all paying for it with higher inflation.

[Traum]

The audit said that the $27.4 billion includes payments made to individuals and businesses who did not meet the requirements. Those payments include:

- $8.3 billion in benefits paid to 647,000 individuals who may not have earned more than $5,000 in 2019, or in the year before their application.

- $3.8 billion in benefits paid to 1.4 million individuals who may have earned more than $1,000 during their four-week CERB period.

- $15.5 in CEWS payments made to companies whose income did not decline as much as it should have to qualify.

From a podcast that I have listened to in the past, it was said that a large percentage of the CERB clawback requests were made out to people in the indigenous community. According to the reporter, a lot of these indigenous people were receiving the clawback requests because they have not done the proper tax filings in the previous year to verify their income, or that they were simply operating in the cash-only economy, so they didn't have the necessary supportive evidence to prove their CERB eligibility.

When I heard that I was just stumped -- how do you help these people when they are clearly in need of assistance, but are also clearly breaking the rules?

[Hondaracer]

You don’t?

If you can’t follow the basic rules of society you should just be given free money with no regulation?

[mikemhg]

It's called compassion fatigue..

Hate to say it, I support the indigenous plight and their stake to certain reconciliations.

But god damn is it ever hard when you see the daily reports of random violence downtown, crimes committed, or stories of juking the system as Traum mentioned and seeing the demographics being a majority of a indigenous variety.

It's tough man.

[Hondaracer]

Back to back weeks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in drugs found in drug busts as well as firearms and everyone involved is released instantly. Is Canada the softest on serious crime in the entire world? I’m being completely serious. Like where else would this fly?

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/1...ug-arrest/amp/

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon...ug-bust#399970

[68style]

... that's how the justice system has always worked?

You can't be held without charges... crown has to decide what to charge with and what has the best chance of results... and any time you are held prior to sentencing counts as double time against your sentencing... so it's better to release with conditions than to hold.

It's standard procedure in any first world country that has an innocent until proven guilty mandate.

[Hondaracer]

Here’s another good one

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/l...ver-bc-6195536

According to the Vancouver Police Department, when a security guard asked a man to move along he was threatened with a knife. Adada was arrested after that incident and taken to jail, charged, and released on bail

Adada has pleaded guilty today (Dec. 3) to assault with a weapon and is sentenced to one day in jail with time served at 12 months' probation.

He has previous convictions for five different assaults since May 2021.

I’m sure this time he’ll clean up his act. He spent 15 days in jail following his FITH assault charge is just over 1.5 years.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

... that's how the justice system has always worked?

You can't be held without charges... crown has to decide what to charge with and what has the best chance of results... and any time you are held prior to sentencing counts as double time against your sentencing... so it's better to release with conditions than to hold.

It's standard procedure in any first world country that has an innocent until proven guilty mandate.

You’re found with multiple illegal handguns… what’s so difficult about the charges? It’s pretty clear we aren’t actually concerned with guns and gun crime as much as Justin would like to think we are.

Here’s yet another gooder..

https://infotel.ca/newsitem/vernon-m...g-bust/it95624

The Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit of B.C. executed 12 warrants across the two regions from September 2020 to July 2021, seizing $650,000 in cash, various amounts of drugs and weapons, according to a news release from the gang squad.

On Dec. 6, seven men were charged, with arrest warrants issued for two of them. Federal prosecutors approved 25 charges among all seven men.

All other men have been released on conditions, but officers are trying to find the Tassones.

[Hondaracer]

The worst wait times in 30 years to get medical treatment, and it’s only 30 years because they haven’t been tracking this type of wait any further than that:

https://vancouversun.com/news/canada...box=1670508137

“Excessively long wait times remain a defining characteristic of Canada’s health-care system”

“And they aren’t simply minor inconveniences, they can result in increased suffering for patients, lost productivity at work, a decreased quality of life and in the worst cases, disability or death.”

[68style]

Almost every single crime you are released with conditions. You could quote any article.

It’s not as simple as you think it is, yah you have drugs and cash in front of you.

But it very much matters how everything is documented and burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Why? Because what if you’re some dude who just happened to rent a place in your name and didn’t know guys were using it for these purposes…. Or what if you had just been told to go get something at X location by someone… there are so many scenarios where someone decent could be caught up in something bad where you’re actually innocent but a 300 word article makes you look guilty by association.

You’re making assumptions if you weren’t there, and you can’t jail someone on assumptions. That’s not how a free society works, sorry.

Conditional release are very serious, it means charges are pending and you’re likely seriously restricted in your movements.

[whitev70r]

^ sometimes I wish our society was just a little ... tiny little ... bit like Idi Amin, especially when a cop catches someone in the act of randomly beating up an innocent people (when an incident is so damn obvious). Wish he could use a bit of police brutality on the perp. I mean ... yah, don't need to say it, the legal system to 'protect the innocent' is the price you pray for a 'free' society.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

Almost every single crime you are released with conditions. You could quote any article.

It’s not as simple as you think it is, yah you have drugs and cash in front of you.

But it very much matters how everything is documented and burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Why? Because what if you’re some dude who just happened to rent a place in your name and didn’t know guys were using it for these purposes…. Or what if you had just been told to go get something at X location by someone… there are so many scenarios where someone decent could be caught up in something bad where you’re actually innocent but a 300 word article makes you look guilty by association.

You’re making assumptions if you weren’t there, and you can’t jail someone on assumptions. That’s not how a free society works, sorry.

Conditional release are very serious, it means charges are pending and you’re likely seriously restricted in your movements.

K here’s another one for ya

https://www.discovermoosejaw.com/art...entanyl-seized

In the Summer of 2022, the Saskatchewan RCMP Warrant and Enforcement Team (WEST) launched an investigation into the arrest of Kurt Miller who was wanted on 25 outstanding charges.

Miller was wanted on warrants for his involvement in an incident back in May 2020. The Saskatoon RCMP F-SOC (Federal Serious and Organized Crime) team executed a search warrant near Biggar, SK, and an RCMP ERT (Emergency Response Team) officer was injured after shots were fired by the suspects. Miller was arrested on his outstanding matters but failed to appear at his final court proceedings.

- wanted on TWENTY FIVE outstanding charges

- Arrested amid shots fired that injured the arresting officers

- RELEASED!!!

Only to to have a huge investigation over years have to track him down and ultimately arrest him with 10kg of fentynal? Lol

I don’t know how many more of these I have to post to demonstrate how utterly useless the system is. Those “conditions” you mentioned are -nothing- to these people. I don’t even have to search for these, they are all just recent and at the top of any news page

I guarantee you a guy like this doesn’t even care when he’s arrested. He knows he will be out in 3-5 years. Trudeau going after completely irrelevant, futile, laws like banning hunting rifles etc. in an attempt to curb crime yet people like this are just captured And released in a non-stop revolving door justice system. It’s a complete fucking joke lol like it’s totally unbelievable.

[westopher]

Lol on the Carey price program? Banning hunting rifles like it’s some encompassing bill where you’ll never be able to shoot a deer again. “Use code polytechniquemassacre for 20% off your semiautomatic rifle! Buy now!”
Again, I don’t disagree with the fact that way too many people are being released but no matter how many times you blame Trudeau for it, this is a provincial policing and court jurisdiction in almost every case, and it has nothing to do with you being upset about your “second amendment rights” being taken away in a country that doesn’t have a second amendment.

[Hondaracer]

Ah yes.. cling on to the one tiny little statement as opposed to the rest of the post. I love this idea of “well It’s not mandated into the constitution so you’re not guaranteed it!! Like when people actually tried to say freedom actually isn’t guaranteed in the constitution as a means to shut down the trucker convoy like the aspect of “freedom” should just be frivolously thrown around at someone’s will lol

I’m pretty sure when you’re found with multiple illegal firearms and millions of dollars worth of drugs, at some point it wades into the federal jurisdiction. Especially when the RCMP are the ones doing the investigation?

It all goes back to these ridiculous, ineffective, laws much like the insanely expensive gun buy back program etc. which will do absolutely nothing to curb this type of crime.

Regular, law abiding people just ask for laws and judges which actually keep dangerous, violent, people, and deadly drugs off the streets and it’s like ehhhh.. the best we can do is punish the law abiding people thank you very much

[westopher]

Ahhhh yes, ignore how your entire statement is blaming Trudeau when I explained to you it’s nothing really to do with him.
Also, I don’t think you really understand where freedom begins and ends so I’ll break it down for what it means to live in a free SOCIETY.
“The right to swing your fists in the air ends where my nose begins” which means when your rights and freedoms encroach on others rights and freedoms in society, they are no longer rights and freedoms. Do you believe the trucker convoy was not crossing the line on the people of Ottawa's rights and freedoms? Were they not faced with an unreasonable situation to be put in? Still not sure what that has to do with the release of NOT convicted offenders in a society that’s justice system is based in it’s entirety that someone is innocent until proven guilty.
This is a courts issue and it should be solved by fast tracking violent offenders straight to the front of the line. Tell people to stop fighting traffic tickets I guess. Again, this is decades of policy that is culminating in a modern problem. Canadas institutions are not growing to fit its population, and I’m sure can be attributed to a poorly balanced tax budget and bureaucracy that is preventing the systems from growing.

[Traum]

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/12/...s-legislation/

[Toronto & Ottawa mayors] can now pass bylaws with just one-third support of city council.

...

Toronto Mayor John Tory has said he will use the powers in a limited and responsible way, Ottawa Mayor Mark Sutcliffe has said he is not interested in using them.

As a practical example of how Canadian politicians are literally dismantling democracy, look no further than Onterrible's "strong mayor" policy. Checks and balances are put into place precisely to make sure there is some semblance of a due process. If only minority support is enough to enact and enforce a policy, how are we any different from authoritarian regimes and dictatorships???

No one in the position of (public) power is credible when they say they will only use the given power "in a limited and responsible" manner. The only way to ensure the power is not abused is to build in checks and balances to make sure he doesn't overstep.

Fuck Ford and fuck Tory.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by westopher

Ahhhh yes, ignore how your entire statement is blaming Trudeau when I explained to you it’s nothing really to do with him.
Also, I don’t think you really understand where freedom begins and ends so I’ll break it down for what it means to live in a free SOCIETY.
“The right to swing your fists in the air ends where my nose begins” which means when your rights and freedoms encroach on others rights and freedoms in society, they are no longer rights and freedoms. Do you believe the trucker convoy was not crossing the line on the people of Ottawa's rights and freedoms? Were they not faced with an unreasonable situation to be put in? Still not sure what that has to do with the release of NOT convicted offenders in a society that’s justice system is based in it’s entirety that someone is innocent until proven guilty.
This is a courts issue and it should be solved by fast tracking violent offenders straight to the front of the line. Tell people to stop fighting traffic tickets I guess. Again, this is decades of policy that is culminating in a modern problem. Canadas institutions are not growing to fit its population, and I’m sure can be attributed to a poorly balanced tax budget and bureaucracy that is preventing the systems from growing.

When you look at the money and effort being spent on programs throughout the country which try to address these issues in a totally round about way, I’m sure if people actually had the will to fix these problems they could. Whether it be provincial or federal.

Canada is a tiny country population wise. With problems that do not reflect the size of our country.

On a somewhat different note, now both Jagmeet and PP are calling out the liberal govt. over inflation with the latest interest rate rise. So you’ve got opposite ends of the political spectrum saying the liberals aren’t doing enough to curb inflation lol.. but I guess jagmeet is too far left?