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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I'm curious your guy's thoughts on this subject, lately its consumed my thinking, specifically to outsourcing.
We watched back in the 80s/90s the complete decimation of manufacturing in NA, and as a result we saw many cities throughout the rust-belt whittle away, along with the middle class and its blue-collared workers associated to it.
What I'm finding fascinating is we're seeing this at an accelerated process in the white-collar sector. Funnily enough, South Park covered this on their most recent episode, but working in IT this topic has consumed me over the last few years. TELUS's recent layoffs is a perfect example, along other industries.
We always knew administration and administrative work would eventually be automated and whittled down over time, but now I'm seeing a massive increase in outsourcing in the IT sector. Companies are actively cutting staff and shoring roles in coding, support, help desk, implementation to places like India and Philippines. This was certainly a thing a decade ago, but it seems to have grown precipitously in the last few years.
Many of these companies have reached peak productivity and as a fiduciary duty to their shareholders have to produce more value, the easiest way to do that is with outsourcing. I've never seen such a pivot in such a short amount of time in so many industries as of late. It's almost like we've ran out of ideas on innovation and creating value for investors and this has become our last stab at producing growth.
I truly think this is going to be a huge problem in the western world, and I don't understand why more people aren't talking about it. It's like we ignored the problem because it only affected manufacturing (not us), but now it's right on our doorstep.
It's very concerning and a subject I wish more people were engaged with.
I'm not in IT but did people not wanting to go back to the office after the pandemic accelerate this at all? Once you prove you don't need to go to the office ever you're proving some dude from India can do it too.
i think some AI can do much much better than the rando Indian dude.
I swear we outsource most of our data input to india and its a crapshoot half the time. They either get the vessel name wrong, or the date and times wrong, or a combination of errors. Its not that hard! but i always have to double check their work, and then go yell at gurdeep for being a fucking retard.
I've never seen such a pivot in such a short amount of time in so many industries as of late.
What will be telling is if they stay that way. I've dealt with a little bit of it and some stuff stopped being outsourced because with the amount of time reviewing it and bouncing it back and forth chewed up a lot of time and didn't really save any money.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
One year of Ken Sim in office, and while I don't want to overstate the power of the mayors office, it's almost impressive that his biggest accomplishment so far has been getting the Stanley park train running again. That DTES cleanup sure paid off.
That SP train is such a hit, tickets all sold out faster than Taylor Swift concert ticket, in 90 mins.
Trudeau, Eby announce $1 billion battery plant in Maple Ridge, B.C.
Quote:
Maple Ridge, B.C. -
A lithium-ion battery cell production plant costing more than $1 billion will be built in Maple Ridge, B.C.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Premier David Eby jointly announced that the new E-One Moli facility will bolster Canada's role as a global leader in clean technology.
A statement says the province is contributing up to $80 million, with $970 million coming from the federal government, E-One Moli and private sources.
The plant will produce high-performance lithium-cell batteries found in numerous products, including vacuums, medical devices and power and garden tools.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Neither, it will just end up automated for the most part and we will give a giant corporation a better bottom line.
And here I was hoping that first employment rights would go to the children of Chile and Congo who mine the most lithium and cobalt in the world anyway. They already have experience! Only now, they can have sushi and bubble tea on their lunch break!
I can barely afford sushi in a 200k+ household. Those 8 people sharing a queen mattress working at the battery factory are gonna be lucky with packaged Ramen
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
If “Canadian” companies like Telus and Rogers want nothing to do with “Canadian” workers and build their entire work force on overseas and TFW, what chance does a company that has no connection to Canada outside its desire to turn a profit have in employing a reasonable workforce lol
This country is so fucked. As if this is some kind of great thing, it’s for the dumbs.
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
So I was working and then got bored so I fucked off at around 12:30ish to a port event. Everyone I interacted with at this event seems so miserable even though these are all dudes and ladies are pulling in 300k+ minimum
Complaining about this and complaining about that. Just miserable people fucks talking about their unbridled materialism.
I got kinda tired of hearing them bitch and moan so I called up a girl friend and went down to Ladner for coffee. The small town vibe was instantly more appealing. Went to a doggie pet store, had coffee and went for a walk looking at antiques and shit for my garage.
I think a lot of Canadians have lost touch with what is important and focused only the negatives. The little pet store in Ladner was so charming and friendly that we genuinely had a great time interacting with the store owner and his son. Buddy was straight up about his pricing saying it’s overpriced but I said hey if it helps you keep the lights on, so be it. Gave us a huge bag of free treats and he said that was a marketing expense for the shop.
That’s the Canada I love. That’s our Canadian wholesome spirit and that’s the Canada I’d be willing to fight and die for. We’ve seriously lost touch with what makes this country great. It’s the Canadians. We should focus more on giving people like this small pet shop owner opportunities to succeed. For that small coffee joint in Ladner to pay their staff a living wage and the little cute bookstore around the corner to make ends meet.
Turd-doh should focus inward and make sure my fucking fried chicken isn’t 17 dollars.
People making 300k are probably miserable because they ain’t living like they make 300k.
I completely agree with the ma and pop thing but big corpo will eventually crush all of that, it can’t not. Like I had proactively not used Amazon for 6-7 months, not once. Then need new cables for the TV, anywhere locally, even the big box stores probably would have paid minimum in store $18-$25 a cable for the ones I bought, Amazon I got better cables than I would have locally for like.. $60 total for 5 cables. Not only did I save the difference, I basically made money in not leaving my home to go buy them
It’s gross but I ain’t rich enough to be propping up ma and pa on everything. There is a fantastic florist “Jam florist” in the hood on Hastings:
Totally amazing elderly Korean couple where it’s gotta be purely a passion project/way of life for them because they very clearly take amazing pride in a quality product that is not profitable lol.. like they amazing plants hanging baskets etc. arrangements at fair prices almost always buy something when I’m in there very kind people. And it’s a shame places like that are so hard up against it to turn a profit
Everywhere just gonna be money mart soon
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Aye so very very true. I don’t think this mom and pop pet store will last but god damn it’s sad to see. All the wee little shops in Ladner feels like they are on their last legs.
Letting corporate greed just kill small businesses
I'm curious your guy's thoughts on this subject, lately its consumed my thinking, specifically to outsourcing.
We watched back in the 80s/90s the complete decimation of manufacturing in NA, and as a result we saw many cities throughout the rust-belt whittle away, along with the middle class and its blue-collared workers associated to it.
What I'm finding fascinating is we're seeing this at an accelerated process in the white-collar sector. Funnily enough, South Park covered this on their most recent episode, but working in IT this topic has consumed me over the last few years. TELUS's recent layoffs is a perfect example, along other industries.
We always knew administration and administrative work would eventually be automated and whittled down over time, but now I'm seeing a massive increase in outsourcing in the IT sector. Companies are actively cutting staff and shoring roles in coding, support, help desk, implementation to places like India and Philippines. This was certainly a thing a decade ago, but it seems to have grown precipitously in the last few years.
Many of these companies have reached peak productivity and as a fiduciary duty to their shareholders have to produce more value, the easiest way to do that is with outsourcing. I've never seen such a pivot in such a short amount of time in so many industries as of late. It's almost like we've ran out of ideas on innovation and creating value for investors and this has become our last stab at producing growth.
I truly think this is going to be a huge problem in the western world, and I don't understand why more people aren't talking about it. It's like we ignored the problem because it only affected manufacturing (not us), but now it's right on our doorstep.
It's very concerning and a subject I wish more people were engaged with.
It's inevitable as our technology grows and our labor cost continue to increase.
It used to be cost-prohibitive to outsource as communication was so darn expensive. Now, the cost of communication is near 0 while the wage continue to increase.
Why do you think there's so much money pouring into AI? As human resources cost continue to soar, it makes more sense to invest into alternatives that can reduce as much human labor as possible. Human resource is a relatively fix cost. Thus, if you can save a dollar in any fix cost, it's a dollar earned.
Sometimes, I think in North America... we are fucking spoiled. We think that we, as human or labor, is important. And that's true... until they can figure out how to do it cheaper.
A call center in India can be 1/10 of the cost of operating in NA, with maybe 10 times the productivity (they make up in numbers). That's the reason why manufacturing all started shifting to China. They offered labor costs unimaginable by NA standard.
And for any liberal, or those who are still considered liberal because I used to think I was liberal, your support in liberalism is digging your own grave if you are not 1%er. As we demand more benefits, more wages and more everything... it just accelerates the investment into alternatives.
The day AGI, or even just functional purpose-specific AI becomes common place, you can see all those entry-level jobs disappear. Businesses have no problem spending millions or even billions on something to replace their labor force if they know they would never have to worry about labor costs ever again.
All those complaints and strikes from labor unions? Businesses cave in because alternatives are more costly, for now. The moment the alternative costs the same or cheaper, they would all switch without a second thought.
Don't tell me it's not possible. Take a look at the petroleum market. They pushed the price up so high, to a point where spending billions on research for technologies like fracking made sense. They all poured in. Once the tech is there, there's no turning back. Supplies are no longer limited to "easy oil" like those from the OPEC, but also those from oilsand, fracking, offshore drilling... etc. How do you compete in labor market when the competition would never fight for fairness, wage increase or benefits?
I was just watching a Taiwanese documentary on India... and those people are working in extremely harsh environments and standards. And yet they work like crazy. What left me in awe was how different we are from them. They work for survival. What do we work for? Political correctness?! How do you expect our labor market to compete with them on hard labors? We can't.
So I was working and then got bored so I fucked off at around 12:30ish to a port event. Everyone I interacted with at this event seems so miserable even though these are all dudes and ladies are pulling in 300k+ minimum
Complaining about this and complaining about that. Just miserable people fucks talking about their unbridled materialism.
I got kinda tired of hearing them bitch and moan so I called up a girl friend and went down to Ladner for coffee. The small town vibe was instantly more appealing. Went to a doggie pet store, had coffee and went for a walk looking at antiques and shit for my garage.
I think a lot of Canadians have lost touch with what is important and focused only the negatives. The little pet store in Ladner was so charming and friendly that we genuinely had a great time interacting with the store owner and his son. Buddy was straight up about his pricing saying itÂ’s overpriced but I said hey if it helps you keep the lights on, so be it. Gave us a huge bag of free treats and he said that was a marketing expense for the shop.
ThatÂ’s the Canada I love. ThatÂ’s our Canadian wholesome spirit and thatÂ’s the Canada IÂ’d be willing to fight and die for. WeÂ’ve seriously lost touch with what makes this country great. ItÂ’s the Canadians. We should focus more on giving people like this small pet shop owner opportunities to succeed. For that small coffee joint in Ladner to pay their staff a living wage and the little cute bookstore around the corner to make ends meet.
Turd-doh should focus inward and make sure my fucking fried chicken isnÂ’t 17 dollars.
People lost purpose in their life and no amount of money can sub for that. Life flashing you by while you grind and grind. Maybe it's just me, but the feeling of buying something new and shiny wears off pretty quick. The wisdom you can gain by sharing stories with strangers is a much different feeling. We are social creatures and the irony of social media is how it divides and isolates us.
Also when people are handed participation trophies, where does the motivation and drive go? Without some level of challenge, what base line do you set to then exceed your perceived limitations? I worked with a couple of Gen Z's that when they'd say things like "I'm perfect", I thought they were joking.
It's inevitable as our technology grows and our labor cost continue to increase.
It used to be cost-prohibitive to outsource as communication was so darn expensive. Now, the cost of communication is near 0 while the wage continue to increase.
Why do you think there's so much money pouring into AI? As human resources cost continue to soar, it makes more sense to invest into alternatives that can reduce as much human labor as possible. Human resource is a relatively fix cost. Thus, if you can save a dollar in any fix cost, it's a dollar earned.
Sometimes, I think in North America... we are fucking spoiled. We think that we, as human or labor, is important. And that's true... until they can figure out how to do it cheaper.
A call center in India can be 1/10 of the cost of operating in NA, with maybe 10 times the productivity (they make up in numbers). That's the reason why manufacturing all started shifting to China. They offered labor costs unimaginable by NA standard.
And for any liberal, or those who are still considered liberal because I used to think I was liberal, your support in liberalism is digging your own grave if you are not 1%er. As we demand more benefits, more wages and more everything... it just accelerates the investment into alternatives.
The day AGI, or even just functional purpose-specific AI becomes common place, you can see all those entry-level jobs disappear. Businesses have no problem spending millions or even billions on something to replace their labor force if they know they would never have to worry about labor costs ever again.
All those complaints and strikes from labor unions? Businesses cave in because alternatives are more costly, for now. The moment the alternative costs the same or cheaper, they would all switch without a second thought.
Don't tell me it's not possible. Take a look at the petroleum market. They pushed the price up so high, to a point where spending billions on research for technologies like fracking made sense. They all poured in. Once the tech is there, there's no turning back. Supplies are no longer limited to "easy oil" like those from the OPEC, but also those from oilsand, fracking, offshore drilling... etc. How do you compete in labor market when the competition would never fight for fairness, wage increase or benefits?
I was just watching a Taiwanese documentary on India... and those people are working in extremely harsh environments and standards. And yet they work like crazy. What left me in awe was how different we are from them. They work for survival. What do we work for? Political correctness?! How do you expect our labor market to compete with them on hard labors? We can't.
I totally agree, companies will follow their bottom line, but what you're describing is the proverbial race to the bottom.
Yes, people work to survive in places like India, but why should be adopt that mentality?
Just because there are people willing to struggle and suffer more to survive does not mean we should mitigate our society and standards simply because of that fact. We should be a positive example of a balanced and stable society, an example other societies should aspire towards.
As opposed to racing to the bottom, shouldn't we concentrate more on raising the tide to lifts all boats?
To his credit, your savior Trump, espoused those very virtues.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
How do you expect our labor market to compete with them on hard labors? We can't.
