Canadian politics thread

[Hondaracer]

Some of them might.. but there is no help available, even if they wanted it.

So everyone is stuck in this cycle of addiction, crime, etc.

All these problems are squarely on the government.

[68style]

Sort of, it's actually society's fault isn't it? Governments do whatever is popular by default because that's what gets them voted in. They try not to do things that are unpopular because that's a death sentence for their party.

Spending money on a multi-tiered approach to assist people getting off drugs and staying clean after is too complex for the average numb nuts to understand, all they see is "my tax dollars are going to some crackhead" and they vote for the other party next election.

If society was better educated about how things work to see the positive end goal and how much more effective and actually cheaper in the long run it would be, governments would institute those changes.

Did society make the government ineffective? Or did the government make society cynical and therefor ineffective to change? Hard to tell.

[Hondaracer]

There are sooooo many things that money is just thrown at behind the scenes that go -nowhere-

This could have been one of those things, just give another 50-100 million a year into support and recovery in some bill from some slush fund and carry on.

But of course, nothing ever happened and now, you know it’s VERY bad because the feds run commercials about addiction and substance abuse.

Whenever you see a federal commercial, you know shit is even WAY worse than it actually appears.

It’s like housing now, JT actually sucked up his pride and now says immigration and housing is a huge problem, guess what, it’s WAY worse than you think.

[westopher]

Saw an interesting stat today that I'm wondering why it isn't something people are angry about.
For perspective, people seem to talk about money given to Ukraine most often when talking about money "wasted" by our government. Here's a list of aid by country

US: 75 billion
Germany: 42 billion
France: 19 billion
UK: 17 billion
Netherlands: 15
Italy: 14
Spain: 13
Denmark: 11
Poland: 9
Norway: 8
Japan: 8
Sweden: 7
Canada: 6

Money worth of tax subsidies given to the oil and gas industry in 2023 by Canada
18.6 billion

Now tell me. Why the FUCK is this not being mentioned in financial waste by this government.
Why are the cons not campaigning on this being the biggest throwaway of taxpayer dollars in this country?
What are the chances that 6 billion that went to Ukraine would turn into 25 billion in subsidies in a year that the cons are running the show? Is that why its not being talked about? Why aren't people who want tax dollars going to making canada better upset about this as a priority?
Another perfect example of parties using the anger flavour of the week to get people wound up about things to push identity politics.
We, as a population have a serious problem eating this shit up, and we ALL need to smarten the fuck up (me included, you included) to hold these people accountable and focus on what actually matters, without consideration of party lines.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Trudeau upheld his promise of proportional representation we wouldn't be in this mess. He could have been the hero, but instead has become the villain because politics is basically just a really boring hockey game now.

[Hondaracer]

I would assume it’s because the perception (and likely reality to some degree) that those subsidies represent jobs in Canada.

[68style]

You have to ask yourself though, how come you're willing to draw vague beneficial lines between $18.6B to oil and gas companies and maybe jobs in Canada....

But can't see the benefit of spending $6B helping to prevent a future world war if Russia starts enveloping all the countries around it into a new USSR and all the hundreds of billions of $ and millions of lives that would cost?

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I would assume it’s because the perception (and likely reality to some degree) that those subsidies represent jobs in Canada.

These companies (in Canada) are making record profits. Do we think they are just going to pack up and leave if we don't pay them money to continue to exist?
Like they aren't going to turn down 10 billion because Canada didn't give them 1 back.

[Traum]

The Cons have a strong supporter base in Alberta, so of course they are not going to say anything that would badmouth the oil and gas industry.

[westopher]

I understand why the cons would never do that, but why can't any of the Canadian voting base do math?
Like 18 billion in a year to some of the most profitable, and most destructive corporations in the world is less offensive than 6 billion to keep innocent people from getting blown to pieces is a pretty good indicator of how fucking shitty this planet is.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

You have to ask yourself though, how come you're willing to draw vague beneficial lines between $18.6B to oil and gas companies and maybe jobs in Canada....

But can't see the benefit of spending $6B helping to prevent a future world war if Russia starts enveloping all the countries around it into a new USSR and all the hundreds of billions of $ and millions of lives that would cost?

The money kept in Canada has measurable impact. Eventually once we’ve tossed Ukraine 10 billion and they fall anyways, there wasn’t much gained.

Honestly, I think to some degree a large part of Canada has simply stopped caring about Ukraine.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by westopher

These companies (in Canada) are making record profits. Do we think they are just going to pack up and leave if we don't pay them money to continue to exist?
Like they aren't going to turn down 10 billion because Canada didn't give them 1 back.

Maybe if the liberals didn’t stifle the oil and gas industry to the point of extinction we could have actually utilized an asset we had?

Instead in such typical liberal fashion, we did everything we could to kill the oil and gas industry, then cut them cheques on the other end to prop it up?

All the while paying the highest prices in the world on virtually anything to do with oil and gas? Lol

We created the environment where subsidies were normalized in the industry.

[68style]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The money kept in Canada has measurable impact. Eventually once we’ve tossed Ukraine 10 billion and they fall anyways, there wasn’t much gained.

It certainly does matter if it takes Russia like 10x longer than they thought and costs them their entire military. They can't proceed as planned anymore.

Who says oil and gas companies are keeping the $ in Canada?

[68style]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

All the while paying the highest prices in the world on virtually anything to do with oil and gas? Lol

Surely you mean North America, not the world right? Cuz we're 82nd on the list in the world.

Country Price/L USD
Hong Kong* 3.173
Monaco 2.294
Denmark* 2.246
Iceland* 2.245
Netherlands* 2.187
Norway* 2.171
Israel* 2.137
Greece* 2.092
Barbados* 2.091
Liechtenstein 2.081
Singapore* 2.06
Italy* 2.044
Switzerland* 2.037
Finland* 2.022
Uruguay* 2.021
France* 2.008
Germany* 1.975
Albania 1.955
Portugal* 1.934
San Marino 1.92
Estonia* 1.919
Mayotte* 1.895
Ireland* 1.866
Belgium* 1.851
Wallis and Futuna 1.85
Latvia* 1.839
UK* 1.825
C. Afr. Rep. 1.802
Sweden* 1.801
New Zealand* 1.781
Belize 1.774
Spain* 1.766
Austria* 1.763
Slovakia* 1.761
Luxembourg* 1.753
Hungary* 1.748
Serbia* 1.747
Montenegro* 1.723
Zimbabwe* 1.68
Croatia* 1.669
Jordan* 1.658
Poland* 1.648
Czech Republic* 1.639
Slovenia* 1.636
Cyprus* 1.631
Senegal 1.626
Lithuania* 1.608
Andorra* 1.601
Romania* 1.558
Seychelles 1.547
Morocco 1.534
Kenya* 1.527
Sierra Leone* 1.524
Burundi 1.52
Cayman Islands* 1.516
Bahamas 1.494
Bosnia & Herz.* 1.489
Mongolia 1.486
N. Maced.* 1.482
Sri Lanka* 1.47
Moldova* 1.464
Mexico* 1.459
Malawi* 1.459
Cape Verde* 1.447
Malta* 1.443
Laos* 1.438
Ivory Coast* 1.437
Bulgaria* 1.437
Uganda 1.433
Ukraine* 1.432
Costa Rica* 1.426
Mauritius* 1.426
Mali 1.422
Aruba* 1.419
Burma* 1.417
Chile* 1.4
Guinea 1.396
Burkina Faso* 1.396
Jamaica* 1.379
Cameroon* 1.376
Canada* 1.371

[CivicBlues]

Just came back from Malaysia after a 13 year long absence. Gas price is around >$0.50/liter, among the cheapest in the world. You don't want this. I know we're all car enthusiasts here but if gas was still this cheap we'd be paying this shit in other ways out our ass through externalities.

The result of gas prices in Kuala Lumpur? Everybody drives. Every fucking road is like 10 lanes wide and you can't walk anywhere. I kid you not, look at a map these days and it looks like LA on steroids now. Don't have a car? No problem! Grab (their version of Uber) rides cost like $3 for a 20 minute ride.

This was the view from our hotel: A beautiful park, the biggest in the city bisected by a massive freeway. Couldn't walk there from the hotel even though it was technically "across the street". No, take a taxi or Grab. FFS

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Maybe if the liberals didn’t stifle the oil and gas industry to the point of extinction we could have actually utilized an asset we had?

Instead in such typical liberal fashion, we did everything we could to kill the oil and gas industry, then cut them cheques on the other end to prop it up?

All the while paying the highest prices in the world on virtually anything to do with oil and gas? Lol

We created the environment where subsidies were normalized in the industry.

Literally all of this is just made up lol.
What stifles the oil and gas industry here? Carbon tax? Again, it's not affecting these companies. They are still posting record profits. What's so hard for them here?

[68style]

That's a big pair of balls you got

[Badhobz]

Doesn’t seem comfortable to sit on those balls

[CivicBlues]

Yeah them balls are rock hard. Should get them looked at though, one's looking bigger than the other.

[Great68]

The liberals have stifled oil and gas so hard that the Trans mountain pipeline starts commercial operations a month earlier than expected, this may.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The money kept in Canada has measurable impact. Eventually once we’ve tossed Ukraine 10 billion and they fall anyways, there wasn’t much gained.

Honestly, I think to some degree a large part of Canada has simply stopped caring about Ukraine.

We've only given them $3.7B in financial aid, the rest has been equipment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...-Ukrainian_War

Surface-to-air missile systems and missiles

1 NASAMS battery [To be delivered].[65]
12 AIM-120 AMRAAMs (for NASAMS II) [March 2023].[66]

Air-to-air missiles

43 AIM-9s [May 2023].[65][67]
250+ AIM-7 beyond-visual-range missiles [To be delivered].[68]

Towed howitzers

4+ 155mm M777s [April 2022] (including an undisclosed amount of M982 Excalibur GPS-guided shells).[65]

Main battle tanks

8 Leopard 2A4s [March 2023].[66]

Engineering vehicles and equipment

1 Bergepanzer 3 ARV [March 2023].[65]
2 GCS-200 remote controlled mine clearing vehicles [May 2023].[65]

Armoured personnel carriers (APCs)

39 Armoured Combat Support Vehicles (ACSVs) [December 2022].[66]

Infantry mobility vehicles

208 Roshel Senators [Eight delivered in May 2022. 78 delivered in June 2023. A further 122 delivered in mid-2023].[67][65]

Armoured vehicles

50 unspecified model of armoured vehicles over 3 years.[69]

Unmanned Aerial Vehicles

800 Aeryon SkyRanger R70 (to be delivered Spring 2024).[70]

Forward-looking infrared (FLIR) turrets

76 Wescam MX-15Ds [May, June, October and November 2022] (for Bayraktar TB2 UCAV).[67][65]

Anti-tank weapons

100 Carl Gustaf M2 recoilless rifles [March and April 2022].[67]
4,200 M72 LAW anti-tank weapons [March 2022].[67]
7,000 anti-tank rockets [Spring 2022].[67]

Small arms

700 C8 carbines [February or March 2022].
200+ C6 light and C9 medium machine guns [February or March 2022].[67]
78 medium and heavy calibre sniper rifles [March 2022].[67]
600 Glock 17 Pistols [February or March 2022].[67]
40 ''Prairie Gun Works'' sniper rifles [between April and June 2023].[71]
38 7.62mm machine guns [To be delivered from June 2023 onwards].[67]
21,000 5.56mm assault rifles [To be delivered from June 2023 onwards].[67]
Over 11,000 unspecified assault rifles [To be delivered].[72]

Ammunition

M982 Excalibur GPS-guided rounds for M777 howitzer [April 2022].[73][65]
955 rounds of 155mm artillery smoke [To be delivered].[67]
40,000 155mm rounds for M777 howitzer [April, May and October 2022, February and March 2023].[67][66]
CAN $40 million towards the Czech scheme to purchase artillery shells for Ukraine.[74]
More than 1800 rounds of 105mm tank training ammunition (for Leopard 1 tanks donated by Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands) [delivered in 2023].[67][66]
10,000 rounds of 105mm ammunition [To be delivered].[68][67]
3,000+ 84mm rounds for Carl Gustaf M2 [March and April 2022].[67]
7,500 C13 hand grenades [March 2022].[67]
12.9+ million rounds of ammunition [delivered from February or March 2022 onwards].[65][72]
100,000 120mm ammunition for the Leopard 2A4 [To be delivered].[65]
3,500 Grad rockets (purchased by Canada from Serbian company and delivered to Ukraine) [2023].[75]
227 1000-pound bombs for aircraft [To be delivered].[76]
2,000+ rounds of 81mm mortar smoke [To be delivered].[67]
76mm naval ammunition [To be delivered].[67]

Military gear

CG634 helmets [March 2022].[67]
Body armour [March 2022].[67]
1,600 fragmentation vests [March 2022].[65]
2,260+ gas masks [March 2022 and later].[67]
Night vision goggles [March 2022].[67]
Personal protective and load carriage equipment [February or March 2022].
500,000 sets of winter clothing [October and December 2022].[67][76]
Boots [To be delivered].[76]
Thermal layers [To be delivered].[76]
2000 sets of uniforms for female soldiers [To be delivered].[76]

Miscellaneous equipment

10 155mm replacement barrels (for M777 howitzers) [June 2022].[67]
16 radio stations for Leopard 2A4 MBT [to be delivered].[71]
Surveillance and detection equipment [February or March 2022].[65]
35 high resolution drone cameras [To be delivered].[67]
CAN $22 million worth of satellite imaging services [Since March 2022].[67]
CAN $2 million worth of satellite communications services [Since October 2022].[67]
640,000 Meal, Ready-to-Eat (MREs) [Delivered since March 2022].[67]
Portable heaters [Since November 2022].[65]
Thermal blankets [Since November 2022].[67]
Sleeping bags [Since November 2022].[76][67]
Generators [Since 2022].[67]
Energy storage devices [Since November 2022].[67]
3 Leopard 2 gunnery simulators [April 2023 onwards].[77]
Modular floatation bridges [To be delivered].[71]
3.3 million litres of fuel [Since April 2023].[71]
10 Zodiac Milpro Hurricane Rigid Inflatable Boats.[78]
CAN $60 million for F-16 supplies and equipment such as spare parts, weapon stations, avionics and ammunition.[79]

Training

Training of more than 33,000 Ukrainian troops as part of Operation Unifier.[80]
CAN $15 million contribution to Denmark and France's efforts to train pilots, and maintain and support Ukraine's F-16s through contract with Top Aces [To be delivered].[68][78]
Contribution of CAN $30 million to the Leopard 2 Tank Maintenance Centre in Poland.[67]
CAN 7.5 million worth of night vision devices.[74]

Financial aid:

CAN $2.45 billion for loans to Ukraine (including CAN $1.95 billion through the International Monetary Fund).[81]
CAN $620 million to the Government of Ukraine.[82]
CAN $35 million funding for mine clearing.[83]
CAN $6 million to support the loan's implementation.[82]
CAN $950,000 in additional funding to a Canadian government project to provide technical support.[84]
CAN $900,000 to strengthen Ukrainian national bank.[85]
CAN $34.6 million for fuel and other equipment.[71]
CAN $541 million in new funding and projects to support Ukraine announced 12 July 2023.
CAN $48.8 million to the NATO Comprehensive Assistance Package announced 12 July 2023.
CAN 2.7 million in cyber security aid announced 12 July 2023.[86]
CAN $33 million to the United Kingdom-led partnership delivering high priority air defence equipment to Ukraine.[87]

[Hondaracer]

Yea, rockets and tanks have zero value.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Great68

The liberals have stifled oil and gas so hard that the Trans mountain pipeline starts commercial operations a month earlier than expected, this may.

Lol please.. this isn’t anything the most blue haired trans refugee would say worked out.

[Manic!]

People complained JT was not building any pipelines so he built Trans mountain. Now those same people are complaining That all the oil is being sent overseas. What did they think was going to happen?

[Hondaracer]

He took over a pipeline the company wanted to abandon due to the climate of oil and gas in Canada.

Like most projects it’s ballooned to multiples of its initial estimate. It was obviously necessary for them to finish the pipeline but it’s hardly anything to look at as an example.

[6793026]

Didn't horgan go guns blazing saying saying to stop pipe lines (2019)... then once he's in power.. oh wait.. how am i going to make up the job as well as explain to others billions of investment... 2020...