Canadian politics thread

[Traum]

Originally Posted by GLOW

so if i don't want to vote JT or PP who's left as a reasonable option?

Jagmeet?

abstain?

I'm in that situation myself as well, and I'm not sure what I'd do yet. I know I am not going to abstain, so maybe I'll just spoil the ballot or vote Green or something.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Hehe

The problem with Western society's politics is that we have a whole bunch of pussies.

While the West certainly has a bunch of pussies in positions of leadership, it is incredibly short-sighted to think bold policy changes like what you've mentioned would be a good idea.

With gun violence, a lot of times people are not thinking about the consequences when they engage in the gun violence. Those who think about how much jail time they'd face before engaging in the act would already have chosen to do something else.

You can't dramatically change housing bylaws / development restrictions because there are consequences to sudden and rapid changes. It could be as simple as whether the existing infrastructure could support the density (sewage, water, power, road capacity), or it could be environmental impact, community support, etc.

The drastic changes that you are suggesting is akin to the idiotic One Child Policy that China adopted. There was a short term benefit to be gained, but later on (ie. now) there are massive socioeconomic problems happening because of the consequences of the One Child Policy.

Everything is connected in this world, so we have to navigate it carefully.

[underscore]

Nah clearly it'd be better to insanely overreact to everything and then just blame the last guy when it all blows up. Pretty sure that's PPs only plan anyways.

Originally Posted by Hehe

You get caught using illegal drugs, mandatory rehab until you are fully sober, minimum 3 months.

You think that'll be funded by the party that does nothing but cut funding to programs, when right now people can't even get spaces in voluntary rehab because there's such a lack of space?

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Great68

I just have missed the part where the conservatives said their platform was going to provide the support service s you speak of.

What even is their platform? because right now it just seems "opposite of what Trudeau does"

That effectively is the very basis of modern conservatism. They are quite simply a grievance party. They don't stand for any actual policies, but rather contrarianism.

They don't wish to govern effectively, they don't stand for anything other than protesting against democratic consensus.

The US has the same issues with the Republican party, they are a party of malcontent, there is no actual substance.

You can't run a party based on simply being against everything, and against change, keeping the simple status quo.

This is why PP still has not effectively articulated his policies, what is plans to do, what specific items he'll roll out to improve the economy, immigration, governance, etc.

The guy seemly doesn't stand for anything -- or maybe he does, and perhaps what he stands for, along with his cabinet full of lobbyists is so repugnant that to make it public prior to the election would massively hurt his ability to win the electorate over.

[68style]

Originally Posted by GLOW

so if i don't want to vote JT or PP who's left as a reasonable option?

Jagmeet?

abstain?

Well, it's actually pretty simple... we don't live in the USA... so you don't vote for the PM or for JT or PP or Jagmeet unless you live specifically in their ridings.

You vote for your local representative who you think holds the best values for you. Not all Cons or Libs or NDP are created alike. You may very well align with the Conservative or Liberal or NDP rep in your particular riding and what they represent, so vote based on what they are saying they can or can't do for you, not on who the leader of the party is.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Dude you need a fucking history lesson, none of these guys were overthrown by their own people. They were either invaded and taken down by foreign armies or murdered by their own elites (Caesar). I can't think of any case of a leader outside of African kleptocracies that were "overthrown" in the past 50 years. Maybe Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines and Suharto in Indonesia but these were due to internal economic issues not sanctions.

Your post if anything just shows how much propaganda can be so powerful by the monied elites.

Philippines voted back in the very son (Bongbong Marcos) of the man they kicked out of the country decades ago for stealing and enriching himself of the public coffers.

Guess what he ran on, the same ridiculous conservative talking points we see here in the West.

This is why I harp on the idea of people having amnesia, forgetting history as such an important factor.

[Traum]

At the federal and provincial level though, the jaded and cynical me would say that individual candidates probably wouldn't matter very much, unless he/she is a well-established career politician with a track record of being particularly effective, or have held key positions in the cabinet or shadow cabinet. With back benchers or more junior MPs, I am really not sure how much influence they can exercise at all. When they are interacting with the public, everyone pretty much has to toot the party line.

Originally Posted by 68style

Well, it's actually pretty simple... we don't live in the USA... so you don't vote for the PM or for JT or PP or Jagmeet unless you live specifically in their ridings.

You vote for your local representative who you think holds the best values for you. Not all Cons or Libs or NDP are created alike. You may very well align with the Conservative or Liberal or NDP rep in your particular riding and what they represent, so vote based on what they are saying they can or can't do for you, not on who the leader of the party is.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

That effectively is the very basis of modern conservatism. They are quite simply a grievance party. They don't stand for any actual policies, but rather contrarianism.

They don't wish to govern effectively, they don't stand for anything other than protesting against democratic consensus.

The US has the same issues with the Republican party, they are a party of malcontent, there is no actual substance.

You can't run a party based on simply being against everything, and against change, keeping the simple status quo.

This is why PP still has not effectively articulated his policies, what is plans to do, what specific items he'll roll out to improve the economy, immigration, governance, etc.

The guy seemly doesn't stand for anything -- or maybe he does, and perhaps what he stands for, along with his cabinet full of lobbyists is so repugnant that to make it public prior to the election would massively hurt his ability to win the electorate over.

What you’ve outlined there is just the opposition, regardless of political leanings.

Aren’t the counter parts of the elected officials in B.C. literally designated as “critics”

The whole basis of their employment is to criticize the elected officials stance.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Great68

I just have missed the part where the conservatives said their platform was going to provide the support service s you speak of.

What even is their platform? because right now it just seems "opposite of what Trudeau does"

coasting into the election and letting the current lib gov shoot itself in the foot is imo the smartest thing they can do; always comes back to best way to acquire power and money

[Hondaracer]

Exactly. They are doing a fine job exiting office without the need for a platform, which speaks to how bad the current situation is.

Why would the cons come out and say all these things they are going to do, so the libs can just flip flop and promise more of the same or use their ideas?

There’s no gain to outline a platform this early

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Exactly. They are doing a fine job exiting office without the need for a platform, which speaks to how bad the current situation is.

Why would the cons come out and say all these things they are going to do, so the libs can just flip flop and promise more of the same or use their ideas?

There’s no gain to outline a platform this early

Personally, I can forgive a lot if government "unfucks" things (i.e. BCNDP fixing ICBC, delivering on LNG, housing elements forcing upzoning California style ... though forestry is mismanaged).

Problem is I can't see any federal party unfucking things.

Promises made early in campaign are a sign to who they will reward when in power - PP has a good problem diagnosis but his solutions and voting record on crypto, abortion, housing, resources and carbon tax are troubling to me personally.

If I could put any government in charge, I think France's policies could help Canada lots:

- Great ecosystem for funding digital startups (Canadian startups generally go south for better terms and way faster deal review)

- Carbon tax used well for funding renewable development means they export solar, nuclear along with geothermal for domestic use

- Resource development - lithium mining and battery production, though they're not permitting for new oil and gas

- Investments in infrastructure: they've got real high speed rail which helps with GDP, employment, and educational attainment

- Arms exports: growing - they make decent ships, submarines, weapons and their army's fairly well trained and equipped.

For us North Americans, US shipbuilding have major capacity constraints but I can't see their MIC farming out ships to Canada unless we happen to design something that meets their program requirements.

[Hondaracer]

Even a person who is completely ignorant to politics can look at the latest liberal budget and deduct they are holding housing funding hostage as a means to gain votes

In recent memory this move is likely one of their more heinous approaches given Freeland can stand there smiling while 3/4 of the housing funding is budgeted past the election, so fucking gross.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Even a person who is completely ignorant to politics can look at the latest liberal budget and deduct they are holding housing funding hostage as a means to gain votes

In recent memory this move is likely one of their more heinous approaches given Freeland can stand there smiling while 3/4 of the housing funding is budgeted past the election, so fucking gross.

I don't care about conduct if they unfuck the economy since my assumption is all governments will withhold and time announcements 'cleverly'.
So let's talk about the funding pre-election:

In general, California has had a LOT of success withholding funding unless province/municipality meets target.

Santa Monica and a lot of the South Bay failed to submit plan meeting target so now builders can build whatever under builder's remedy as long as they include a percent of affordable housing; we're talking 5 figure worth of new units in SM.

BC NDP have done something similar and IMO Fed Gov being smart with getting around Ontario PCs was also pretty clever.

The Ontario <> Fed Gov relationship's always complicated (especially with Doug's power base coming from developers looking for green belt to be opened up).

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

What you’ve outlined there is just the opposition, regardless of political leanings.

Aren’t the counter parts of the elected officials in B.C. literally designated as “critics”

The whole basis of their employment is to criticize the elected officials stance.

I disagree. The opposition should have a counter-policy, they should have a stance fundamentally different then that of the incumbent.

What we're seeing in modern conservatives politics is absent of that.

You can't just be against things without proposing a counter idea.

"We're against abortion"
"We're against woke shit, books, and gender shit"
"We're against taxes"
"We're against drugs"

What do you actually stand for, and how to you envision getting that stance done.

[AstulzerRZD]

Unless competing party in BC can outline a better vision for ...

1) housing (which they won't because our Cali style housing element will get units built and force cities to fix planning &&& market is more or less stable)
2) resources (which they won't cuz LNG and finished lumbar goods will happen)
3) education (when SFU are delivering a new med school and universities are doing ok without the scandals of conestoga and other ontario private colleges)
4) healthcare (when Victoria's doing ok with pharmacy and buying out MRI clinics)

anything else will just be noise.

IMO it'd be a straight banger if they improve the ferry, hospital wait times, and bring more large employers to Vancouver (though corp wages have more or less matched Toronto's at this point if you ignore opportunities for promotion)

[68style]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

I disagree. The opposition should have a counter-policy, they should have a stance fundamentally different then that of the incumbent.

What we're seeing in modern conservatives politics is absent of that.

You can't just be against things without proposing a counter idea.

"We're against abortion"
"We're against woke shit, books, and gender shit"
"We're against taxes"
"We're against drugs"

What do you actually stand for, and how to you envision getting that stance done.

Add in the fact, and this is VERY relevant in today's politics, something Bill Clinton said recently on a Podcast, they should, at the very least, start every day recognizing that they're in an extremely privileged position where they have the power to make 1 person's life or a 1,000,0000 people's lives better in everything they do. That seems to have gotten lost in modern politics.

PP does not have a platform or plan to make any Canadian's life better... just a plan to undermine and usurp the current government. He'll stand there and TELL you that your life sucks and Canada sucks and he's going to fix it, but he has absolutely no idea how and probably doesn't care, he just wants to be in power and he needs us to believe everything sucks and put him there. It's like MAGA-lite... Make American Great Again... when did it get broken? They're enjoying more economic prosperity than ever right now... so what exactly is the platform besides giving middle aged white men a place to voice their frustrations at slowly giving up little bits of their privilege?

I'm totally fine if they choose to be contrarian on a multitude of issues as long as it's keeping in mind the well-being of the country and its constituents and that they consider everything that happens and even support the ruling party when it makes sense to. I'm super unhappy when the opposition only exists to fight against what the ruling party is doing "just because" and their only platform is trying to grab power and get rich themselves.

[sonick]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

I disagree. The opposition should have a counter-policy, they should have a stance fundamentally different then that of the incumbent.

What we're seeing in modern conservatives politics is absent of that.

You can't just be against things without proposing a counter idea.

"We're against abortion"
"We're against woke shit, books, and gender shit"
"We're against taxes"
"We're against drugs"

What do you actually stand for, and how to you envision getting that stance done.

Criticizing without offering a counter is merely complaining.

[Manic!]

Twitter

And so people still believe cons are not going to go after abortion rights.

[mikemhg]

^Honestly, I hope the Cons push forward with that agenda.

It is the unequivocal cutting of ones nose off to spite their face, and will be the death knell of the Conservative party in Canada.

Look at how much it's hurting the Republicans in the states, placating to this small base of nutcases.

Abortion in Canada is not a debate, we are very progressive on the subject in this country.

Let them dig their own grave by continuing to push this agenda, you'll see people pull their votes away quick.

[Manic!]

Jagmeet was at the counter protest.

Twitter

[Manic!]

UCP holding a dance for people 14 to 25.



https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/ucp-cons...ange-1.6893404

[westopher]

lol aren't these the people that think queer adults reading books to kids is grooming?

[mikemhg]

^Because they don't care about grooming or any of that bullshit.

It's all subterfuge, it's just an easy way to destroy your opponents and their credibility.

That's the modern Trump card, accuse someone of being a pedo or sexual deviant, rinse and repeat.

[Hondaracer]

Number of unclaimed dead bodies went up more than 10 fold in the last decade as people can’t even afford to bury their loved ones

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/in-...25%20in%202023.

Surely the sign of a strong economy

[Badhobz]

^sweet! that'll show big funeral.

When i die, none of you fuckers say you know me okay? i dont wanna pay $$$ for basically a pointless/useless service.

Just let my bloated fat corpse rot in future 2.0 Turd-oooohhh's medicare system.

P.s. stop tiny from donating my corpse to bodyworld. I dont need future Nelsons going HAHA at me @ science world.

p.p.s. also stop tiny from potentially freezing my head cuz she said the rest of me aint worth freezing, so she'll cut cost and just freeze the head.