Canadian politics thread

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

It’s seems like right now there are only two choices. Ndp for middle to lower class and the rich douche bags who vote conservatives. Lawl. That shrinking middle class is real man. There are so few middle class Canadians nowadays. Either you have a shit load of money or you’re evofire.

I think it depends on if you're rich enough to own land you're developing or make major campaign contributions for influence.
Among my 25-30 cohort, the few of us making 300k still voted NDP; one of them's building a 6-plex.

In general, the NDP upzoning plan / transit / speculation tax / ICBC has been popular.
Cancer treatment for our aging parents also important.
We generally agree decrim didn't work because the long term mental health support wasn't there.
We have a couple guys in forestry and think the NDP screwed up that file tho.

Federally, support (in spite of our disgust) for PP among the group is strong.
Idea being housing plan / all in on LNG would at least give some economic benefit.

[Hondaracer]

No one in the construction industry has ever supported the NDP lol

Also like this ongoing spiel from the NDP that privatized healthcare is the devil is just backed by special interest groups and unions who have to justify their existence

During this run up to the election they’ve had multiple “left” leaning people from both Spain and Sweden where they have a mixture of public/private healthcare and they both outlined how the system has substantially better outcomes and timelines than Canada/BC.

Everyone pays into the public system, you pay additionally for the private system, and that funding goes back into the public system. There are already models in place to base ours on. People are just too stupid and there are too many groups yapping.

[AstulzerRZD]

In our group perception is NDP did a great job on very difficult files like ICBC. Trust level is high.

That trust don’t exist with Rustaad; we see how badly AB screwed their family docs and medical system.

[JDMDreams]

So you people don't want Justin, also don't want PP, then who do you want? Winnie the Pooh? He seems like he knows what he's doing.

[AstulzerRZD]

Federally, we got Joffrey from Game of Thrones, Frank Underwood from House of Cards, Sam from Lord of the Rings, and Luna from Harry Potter.

We think it's ok to think they all suck and are unemployable, wish there was someone competent, and pick a flavor of shitty.

In BC we thought there was an option that wasn't perfect but mostly competent

Most have already or are trying to hop across the border to the Seattle, SF, or NY.
Some did it even though their assets / rental income / construction projects in Vancouver they're managing remotely mean their taxes are extra fucked.

The one who stayed behind had girlfriends who couldn't get a TN visa.
Vancouver's seen as safe haven where daily life with education, healthcare, and kind of the economy is pretty stable.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

So you people don't want Justin, also don't want PP, then who do you want? Winnie the Pooh? He seems like he knows what he's doing.

Who do you want? I've never seen you put forward any solutions in a single thread on here? Only half coherent complaints about anything from politics to cars to real estate.

[The Producer]

^^ this post will simply be ignored

[Qmx323]

It's a sad day for democracy when you're picking one because of how "less shitty" they are...

South Park strikes again, douche and a turd sandwich.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Qmx323

It's a sad day for democracy when you're picking one because of how "less shitty" they are...

For better or for worse though, going by the above definition, it has been a sad day of democracy for a very long time at all 3 levels of gov, though probably more so at the federal level than the others. Turd was only a breathe of fresh air at his first attempt to run for PM, after which he has promptly turned into Turd once the honeymoon is over.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Qmx323

It's a sad day for democracy when you're picking one because of how "less shitty" they are...

South Park strikes again, douche and a turd sandwich.

We get the democracy we deserve. We pay them like shit, we criticise out of ignorance, we don't allow mistakes and we prefer loud mouths over thoughtfulness.

Why would anyone go into public service?

[Hondaracer]

Incentivize public service.

The current structure with people like Jagmeet literally CLINGING to a seat in order to secure his pension underlines the type of people you get under the current system.

Public projects with cost overruns half the total costs, incompetence all around, etc.

The only people who get into politics are egomaniacs. Create incentives for performance whether they be financial, or however you need to structure it to pull people who would normally end up in the private sector.

We are so bloated in North America with unions, special interest groups, lobbyists, etc. we will -never- break away from this system. That’s why people vote for shit candidates because there is this minuscule chance they may address one or two issues you actually care about.

The system also creates this environment there people don’t really give a shit about other people. Why should I care about handing out money to other people when it’s constantly squandered and wasted in its distribution.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Incentivize public service.

The current structure with people like Jagmeet literally CLINGING to a seat in order to secure his pension underlines the type of people you get under the current system.

Public projects with cost overruns half the total costs, incompetence all around, etc.

The only people who get into politics are egomaniacs. Create incentives for performance whether they be financial, or however you need to structure it to pull people who would normally end up in the private sector.

We are so bloated in North America with unions, special interest groups, lobbyists, etc. we will -never- break away from this system. That’s why people vote for shit candidates because there is this minuscule chance they may address one or two issues you actually care about.

The system also creates this environment there people don’t really give a shit about other people. Why should I care about handing out money to other people when it’s constantly squandered and wasted in its distribution.

Jagmeet does not need his pension. He was a practising lawyer before he went into politics. Being a former head of a political party he would have multiple high paying job opportunities.

[Hondaracer]

So.. he’s in it… for his… ego….

Talk to anyone in his Burnaby riding and ask them what he’s actually done that’s improved the community. He’s the benefactor of a good riding, nothing else. His pension is likely worth more than any salary he ever would have made as a lawyer.

Most lawyers don’t get paid shit, so again what you’re saying is all he would do it use the leverage and name he’s built by essentially doing nothing in public office to gain a cushy private sector job, like all these sack of shit politicians do.

[JDMDreams]

Isn't PP worse? He's a career politician and his pension is like $3m + according to the ads

[Hondaracer]

He’s the same. The only difference is that he actually has to do work as the leader of an actual party and not one that just rides Justin’s coat tails in order to stay relevant.

Jagmeet will almost certainly lose his riding next election, as he should

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So.. he’s in it… for his… ego….

I don't know many politicians that don't have an ego. If you don't have an ego you turn into Jimmy Carter. You must have an ego of some sort to go into public service.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Talk to anyone in his Burnaby riding and ask them what he’s actually done that’s improved the community. He’s the benefactor of a good riding, nothing else. His pension is likely worth more than any salary he ever would have made as a lawyer.

He got them a national dental care program?

I know you're not stupid so I know you're just creating false narrative to vent and complain about gov't because with you it's always the gov't is bad. Because you're not stupid you also know that MPs that are not in the ruling party don't have to the power to do much for their community - they're effectively outcasts. All they can do listen and sometimes push a "cat stuck in tree" problem forward (eg. helping an immigration case move forward or finding help with a gov't agency).

I don't particularly like Jagmeet - I think he's a weak politician who blows too often wherever the wind blows. His housing policies are terrible (which is a key policy that I care about) but I believe the guy actually cares about people - he used his party's power to actually do some good. He's the opposite of PP who is nothing but a demagogue who won't get security clearance even though he's our next PM in waiting. The guy is a disgrace.

[Tapioca]

Anyone here listen to political podcasts?

Hotel Pacifico is a pretty good one with BC political insiders on both sides. They've had lots of guests including former BC premiers and other ex politicos who have a lot of insight into the issues and current trends.

This is Vancolour is also a good one. I would recommend the latest episode with reflections on the election from Brad West and two veteran strategists.

The big development that is being reflected here is that higher income and the educated voter is now supporting the NDP, which wasn't the case a few cycles ago.

[JD¹³]

I'll just leave this here for everyone attacking the leader of the official opposition for not having the top security clearance. Former official opposition leader Tom Mulcair of the NDP completely agrees with Poilievre and calls Trudeau's theatrics a "stink bomb" that are "not worthy of Canadian politics."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=3012777

[Traum]

The problem with the suggestion of bringing private healthcare into more mainstream use is -- our healthcare crisis is happening not because we lack a private option. It's happening because there isn't enough medical staff.

In a system where the core problem is the lack of sufficient staffing levels, opening it up to having private healthcare means a good number of the public sector staff will flee to the private sector for higher pay, better working environment, etc. And then we are left with a 2-tier system where the public system is shxt, and the private system is hugely expensive, and the overall capacity to treat patients remains the same as it did before the private option becomes available. And if the provincial gov is the one paying for the private sector medical services instead of the patients themselves, then the gov healthcare spendings would just go through the roof.

Fundamentally, I am not opposed to having a public-private dual track healthcare system. After all, there are other western countries that are have them, and is able to provide their citizens with a higher quality of care than we can. From the stuff that I've read, and with the healthcare professionals that I've talked to, our current system (at least in BC) is riddled with problems. Front line doctors are getting swamped with BS admin work, don't get paid well enough for the HUGE amount of time they put into work, and are poorly supported in terms of getting the assistance they need -- eg. they might need XYZ tests to be done to help with diagnosis / treatment, but the wait time for that is 3 months instead of 3 weeks, and the patient don't have 3 months to wait. There are too many high paying admin staff, and not enough actual hands-on staff helping patients. There isn't enough space for patients, and even if there are, there isn't enough (medical) staff to attend to them. None of these problems can be solved by just opening the system up to having a private sector option.

If we want a good system, we need the political will to see it through. But we don't have that political will bcos all we get are weasel bastards like PeePee, or phoney pretty faces like Turd. And our govs aren't willing to pay for it anyway, bcos our voters aren't willing to pay for it either.

I'm sorry for the rant. The more I wrote, the more ranty it became.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Also like this ongoing spiel from the NDP that privatized healthcare is the devil is just backed by special interest groups and unions who have to justify their existence

During this run up to the election they’ve had multiple “left” leaning people from both Spain and Sweden where they have a mixture of public/private healthcare and they both outlined how the system has substantially better outcomes and timelines than Canada/BC.

Everyone pays into the public system, you pay additionally for the private system, and that funding goes back into the public system. There are already models in place to base ours on. People are just too stupid and there are too many groups yapping.

[Hondaracer]

We have similar populations the places I listed before, so obviously they are doing something right we aren’t.

The issue in Canada is we can never just attempt anything that seems “scary” even though after growing pains we’d likely be better off.

I completely agree though our system as a whole is broken and the people in place will never correct the issues, nurses unions etc. are also terrified of privization not because it hurt their employees but because it pulls people out of contributing to the pension plan.

Remember when, at the beggining of Covid, we all figured the system needed to be overhauled and restructured in a way to be more resiliant?

Yea, well that was almost 5 years ago now and nothing has changed. That’s 2 nurse training cycles, and approaching a doctors education timeline, and we are shutting down more ER’s than ever.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

In a system where the core problem is the lack of sufficient staffing levels, opening it up to having private healthcare means a good number of the public sector staff will flee to the private sector for higher pay, better working environment, etc. And then we are left with a 2-tier system where the public system is shxt, and the private system is hugely expensive, and the overall capacity to treat patients remains the same as it did before the private option becomes available. And if the provincial gov is the one paying for the private sector medical services instead of the patients themselves, then the gov healthcare spendings would just go through the roof.

...Front line doctors are getting swamped with BS admin work, don't get paid well enough for the HUGE amount of time they put into work, and are poorly supported in terms of getting the assistance they need -- eg. they might need XYZ tests to be done to help with diagnosis / treatment, but the wait time for that is 3 months instead of 3 weeks, and the patient don't have 3 months to wait. There are too many high paying admin staff, and not enough actual hands-on staff helping patients. There isn't enough space for patients, and even if there are, there isn't enough (medical) staff to attend to them. None of these problems can be solved by just opening the system up to having a private sector option.

If we want a good system, we need the political will to see it through. But we don't have that political will bcos all we get are weasel bastards like PeePee, or phoney pretty faces like Turd. And our govs aren't willing to pay for it anyway, bcos our voters aren't willing to pay for it either.

I'm sorry for the rant. The more I wrote, the more ranty it became.

I think all modern countries need a bit of a reality check about what kind of health care is realistic for us to have. Modern medicine along with general health practices (like how we don't really smoke much, we've gotten rid of most deadly chemicals etc) have advanced so much that we live longer than ever but living longer than ever has meant that a lot of new illness (very expensive to treat illnesses) now happen far more than before (cancer, dementia, MS etc). We'll spend millions now on a single person to extend their life a couple years.

On the other end of life, it wasn't that long ago a baby born at 24 weeks would just die and the bill for that baby's care was just a few thousand dollars. Today, we'll spend millions on a single premature baby to save them.

Medical science makes all this possible but it costs so much more money than before and we just keep expecting our health system to do whatever it takes to keep us alive and to help keep our quality of life up.

It's not too different than what the NDP have done with ICBC - their coverage now is a lot more limited and some people are going to suffer as a result but they/we decided that we couldn't cover all pain and suffering any longer.

Where's the line that we draw for our health system and how do we draw it? Edit: If we start drawing these lines I guarantee you that the Conservatives/Republicans will bring up death panels as if their plan isn't just to let you die by witholding care in the first place.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

We have similar populations the places I listed before, so obviously they are doing something right we aren’t.

The issue in Canada is we can never just attempt anything that seems “scary” even though after growing pains we’d likely be better off.

I completely agree though our system as a whole is broken and the people in place will never correct the issues, nurses unions etc. are also terrified of privization not because it hurt their employees but because it pulls people out of contributing to the pension plan.

Remember when, at the beggining of Covid, we all figured the system needed to be overhauled and restructured in a way to be more resiliant?

Yea, well that was almost 5 years ago now and nothing has changed. That’s 2 nurse training cycles, and approaching a doctors education timeline, and we are shutting down more ER’s than ever.

The new vaccine lab and production facility in Vancouver will be done soon though.

Oh, not sure if anyone remembers and I don't even remember his name but to the clown who was arguing with me about the costs of a vaccine facility saying it would be billions and billions of dollars, you sir can eat the hugest dick. Like I said then and reiterate now you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. My company is actually working on said facility, it's in the high hundreds of millions and this is after the cost of materials doubled since that time.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

I'll just leave this here for everyone attacking the leader of the official opposition for not having the top security clearance. Former official opposition leader Tom Mulcair of the NDP completely agrees with Poilievre and calls Trudeau's theatrics a "stink bomb" that are "not worthy of Canadian politics."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=3012777

Oh wow, a former leader. Maybe if PP got his clearance a current opposition leader could actually say something accurate.

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by underscore

Oh wow, a former leader. Maybe if PP got his clearance a current opposition leader could actually say something accurate.

Tell us you didn't listen to anything Mulcair said and have missed the points... without telling us.

[underscore]

I listened to enough of it to know it was bs once he claimed this is the lowest thing he's seen in politics