Canadian politics thread

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Traum

Tell me you failed Econ 101 back in ugrad without telling me you failed Econ 101 back in ugrad.

In case you were hiding under a rock in the past 4 years, we got hit with all of the following that completely screwed up the world's economy, job market, and supply chain:

- COVID
- Russia-Ukraine war

These led to the initial inflation pressures that the WHOLE WORLD had faced, and no gov other than Russia could have done anything to prevent the inflation caused by these issues.

You can make an argument for how our gov and the central bank's policies have further worsened inflationary pressures, and you would only be partially correct. Had the gov not given out COVID era handouts, the impacts to our economy would have been far worse (than the subsequent inflation that we saw). The central bank's interest rate hikes inadvertently resulted in some much higher housing costs, but it also guided the economic decline to a soft landing.

Yes, Turd has some bad policies that added more pressure to inflation, with its overly aggressive immigration policy being a main driving factor. But don't blame everything on the gov bcos it just ain't true.

Again, inflation can only be created by central banks. Covid and war create temporary shock. In long term, the economy will balance itself out.

And the key is the last sentence, the economy is creating inflationary pressure due to the imbalance between real economic output vs. money being created.

Look at Covid policies, was all those handouts necessary? One could argue that some needed it, but was it necessary to the scale that was done? Or was the handout necessary to cover up for other screwups?

We went into a full soft lockdown where all businesses were told to shut down except those deemed "basic necessity." Many lost their income, especially in the service sector, but were those handouts at a scale of hundred of billions necessary? Looking at countries like Taiwan, Korea... etc where no massive handouts were given, I think the argument that those handouts were actually necessary would be a hard sell.

Sure, economic tend to study things afterward and find cause/effect within. But it's not always precise. Correlation does not always mean causation. Turd's gov't argued that without the handouts, millions of people would suffer. While that might be true, but to what point? Korea had soft lockdown like ours... their economy and people did not simply collapse. Instead, everything just balanced out. Some of the ill-prepared people suffered, but we could have had policies to lessen the impact (such as interest-freeze, payment-freeze... etc) without giving out such a handout where the entire economy has to suffer the consequence of the decision.

And remember, the argument for a soft lockdown was that our healthcare system was not able to handle the sudden inflow. Thus, the question become, was our healthcare system already on the brink of collapse and Covid just highlighted such truth or it was just too extraordinary of an event to even consider about such question?

From the wait time that we have on our healthcare service, where a trip to ER is easily an 8-hour ordeal, I'm more incline to believe that the issue was with the healthcare system rather than Covid.

Lefties like to use the scare tactic... "oh, things would be so bad if it wasn't done this way". Please... maybe other ways might have a worse initial shock, but much less long lasting effects.

Look at what happened with Argentina new president Millei... many, including some very big name in academic or financial sector, have argued that his proposed policies were going to wreck havoc in their economy. Instead, he achieved the first gov't surplus in over 100yrs without a default and the country is booming with inflation going from textbook hyperinflation territory to one of the lowest in G20.

So, while I might not gotten an A+ for my Econ101 class, I didn't fail it. As a matter of fact, most of the businesses I do now, be it CRE or stock, rely heavily on what I was able to learn back then. So, I'm going to say that I turned out ok with what I learned.

[noclue]

Doesn't matter which party in power
1. poors will get by
2. rich will grumble but get by
3. middle/upper-middle class will get cooked paying for favourable policies for both

[Hondaracer]

The fact that the majority of Canadians will support a party that doesn’t even have a platform VS the incumbent tells you everything you need to know about Turds Tenure.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by noclue

Doesn't matter which party in power
1. poors will get by
2. rich will grumble but get by
3. middle/upper-middle class will get cooked paying for favourable policies for both

Fix the bail system and I could live with status quo.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

As opposed to the decade of failure that’s preceded him?

Would you have confidence in the liberals turning this around under a new leader? The exact same scenario applies. There is no precedent to predict any improvement based on the last decade of incompetence.

The Conservative Party at least has done through almost two full overhauls since last having power.

This isn’t a situation like in Europe etc. where people are “tired” of the encumbant and vote in a “scary” right wing govt.

We’ve lived through a decade of abject failure. The evidence for change is right in front of you.

If nothing else we get a new clown in charge of the circus, there isn’t one person I know who supports the guy any longer. Even staunch liberal supporters and people I’d almost certainly would expect to lean left half abandoned their support of the liberal party.

That's a lot of words to say you're just going on feelings instead of actual evidence.

[Hondaracer]

We’ve got the last decade to show that any party could likely do better?…

At this point I’d take the NDP over the liberals

[Traum]

Dood, you really do live in a paralle universe, don't you?

Taiwan's COVID situation was never that bad. It stayed relatively COVID-free for the better part of what... almost 2 years (?) before it finally hit home on a large scale. They pretty much closed off their incoming international passenger traffic, but the local Taiwanese economy didn't stop, except for the supply chain issues that affected every country in the world.

I am not familiar with Korea, other than that they got hit hard by COVID medically. So I won't comment on things I don't know about.

China did not provide any COVID era support to its people, and as a result, Chinese people used up all their savings to survive through the hard lockdowns, and when it came time to rebound, consumers and business owners simply had no money left to re-start their economy. Canada and much of the Western World provided financial support to its people and businesses, and as a result, when the economy opened up again, they were able to quickly rebound. The evidence is pretty clear about that.

COVID exposed many of the weaknesses of our healthcare system, but the covidiots and their mistreatment of our medical staff did a lot of harm to cause our healthcare staff to quit. IMO, that did far more damage to our fragile healthcare system than COVID had done.

And Argentina "going from textbook hyperinflation territory to one of the lowest in G20"? The latest monthly figure -- yes, it's at 2.7%. But at recently as last month, it was still as high as 25%. The overall annual inflation rate for 2024 is still 117.8%. He has done a good job in bringing it down from almost 300%, but they are not out of the woods yet. And IIRC, they have also significantly devalued their peso as part of the inflation-fighting strategy, so anything they have to import are still very expensive.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The opposite of what the libs have done to drive all this? lol

Which is what? They can't even pinpoint that so how can you? If you have ideas, honestly they should hire you, because someone is gonna need to figure out what it is.

[Hondaracer]

Here’s one, don’t give 400 million dollars to a total failed state in Haiti, a country with zero chance of turning around

Wow, I’m a genius.

Literal money down the toilet, there’s no other way to put it.

Some other common sense policies

-incentivize health care work and doctor enrolment through monetary policies (we’re sitting at 5 years post COVID and we’re as bad as ever)
-allow transferable health care provider credentials from reputable countries to be freely accepted as opposed to the joke of a system we have now in re-education and all that involves.
-get back into social housing with caveats of contributions to the community and a structure that doesn’t reward the race to the bottom
-bail reform and the consideration to elect judges
-strict gun reform that doesn’t target law abiding citizens but rather repeat criminals with illegal firearms
-a tax structure that allows middle class more flexibility to build wealth whether it’s write offs for homes, be it rental or ownership
-a total overhaul of the telecom industry and the monopolies we’ve allowed to become established

[Harvey Specter]

Originally Posted by 68style

No direct offense intended, but kinda being another "The economy is in the shitter PP is the answer Canada is stuck" guy while waiting for your custom Lamborghini to get built and delivered.

All the guys I hear bitching the most and the loudest about the economy and wanting PP in have brand new exotic cars or Cybertrucks. One guy who posts about his PP support daily I know is, no surprise, also a realtor who took delivery of a GT3RS and a GTS this past year while boohoo'ing into his cereal about the state of Canada every morning.

It's fuckin mental.

Is the Realtor from Calgary? Lol.

One reason I’m supporting PP is the absurd federal luxury tax. Sure, it affects the 1%, and I get that it’s a first world problem, but it’s essentially a luxury tax on top of another luxury tax. That’s just one of the reasons I’ve decided to switch sides.

And let’s be honest, most voters are self-interested and focus on issues that directly affect them. It’s no surprise, then, that the typical luxury or supercar buyer is backing PP. We’re anticipating tax cuts, and for many, that’s reason enough to make the switch.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

Is the Realtor from Calgary? Lol.

One reason I’m supporting PP is the absurd federal luxury tax. Sure, it affects the 1%, and I get that it’s a first world problem, but it’s essentially a luxury tax on top of another luxury tax. That’s just one of the reasons I’ve decided to switch sides.

And let’s be honest, most voters are self-interested and focus on issues that directly affect them. It’s no surprise, then, that the typical luxury or supercar buyer is backing PP. We’re anticipating tax cuts, and for many, that’s reason enough to make the switch.

What will replace that revenue?

[Hondaracer]

At some point, you can’t just keep adding taxes that fund general revenue accounts and then have this head in the sand approach of “if we get rid of it where will the money come from?!?!”

Spend the money you have more effectively.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

At some point, you can’t just keep adding taxes that fund general revenue accounts and then have this head in the sand approach of “if we get rid of it where will the money come from?!?!”

Spend the money you have more effectively.

Like building a fake lake? The cons wasted a shit ton of money.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Here’s one, don’t give 400 million dollars to a total failed state in Haiti, a country with zero chance of turning around

Wow, I’m a genius.

Literal money down the toilet, there’s no other way to put it.

Some other common sense policies

-incentivize health care work and doctor enrolment through monetary policies (we’re sitting at 5 years post COVID and we’re as bad as ever)
-allow transferable health care provider credentials from reputable countries to be freely accepted as opposed to the joke of a system we have now in re-education and all that involves.
-get back into social housing with caveats of contributions to the community and a structure that doesn’t reward the race to the bottom
-bail reform and the consideration to elect judges
-strict gun reform that doesn’t target law abiding citizens but rather repeat criminals with illegal firearms
-a tax structure that allows middle class more flexibility to build wealth whether it’s write offs for homes, be it rental or ownership
-a total overhaul of the telecom industry and the monopolies we’ve allowed to become established

I like all those ideas, but what will pay for it, and how will it happen with tax cuts. Literally all of them sound great, but other than the gun reform (which cons will totally not do because of their voting base never understanding the policy based on US style good guy with gun bullshit rhetoric) I don't see them being able to afford (or put effort into) doing any of those other than hopefully fixing the arduous process of immigrants being able to be certified for health care positions based on previous experience.
Hell they will not be pumping money into making healthcare a more attractive prospect by putting money into the public system, it's more likely they open up the options to a private system which will effectively remove workers from the single payer healthcare system that exists, however I don't know how much power there lies in federal/provincial in terms of the rules.
Bail reform maybe? But also that will be a process that will cost billions in court cases and precedents set. We both agree I'm sure that it's based on decades of Supreme Court systematic issues.

[CivicBlues]

We don't give foreign aid to "fix" countries. We give them foreign aid so they don't become even shittier places to live than they are now and have the entire populace jump on makeshift rafts, or stowaway on planes and end up on our shores. So in a sense, "fixing" them first so they don't come here is the philosophy behind it

Of course, you can claim we should spend that money beefing up the borders and putting barbed wire all over the 49th parallel and equipping our orcas with lasers on their heads to patrol our waters and shoot lasers at whomever is trying to illegally land. But maybe that's not a prudent way to spend our money either. Just my opinion.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

We don't give foreign aid to "fix" countries. We give them foreign aid so they don't become even shittier places to live than they are now and have the entire populace jump on makeshift rafts, or stowaway on planes and end up on our shores. So in a sense, "fixing" them first so they don't come here is the philosophy behind it

Of course, you can claim we should spend that money beefing up the borders and putting barbed wire all over the 49th parallel and equipping our orcas with lasers on their heads to patrol our waters and shoot lasers at whomever is trying to illegally land. But maybe that's not a prudent way to spend our money either. Just my opinion.

With all that money displaced people has tripled since and gangs control the entire capital and most of the country

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93q7ey90yzo.amp

If there ever was a lost cause, this is it.

I don’t think anyone, even on the global stage would bat an eye if you stopped funding this mess.

I think the reality of it, being an island nation, is that you don’t worry about it THAT much because people are much more likely to die on said rafts than make it to another country.

The problem with so many of these things is there is -no way- to measure the outcome. How can you? You have no one on the ground, you likely have no one down the chain of there this money flows, it’s impossible to quantify the outcome by any measure.

[underscore]

They all sound like common sense but they also all sound like the opposite of the kind of things the Cons do. They cut health care, not incentivize it. The last time they touched social housing they ended all new funding. They don't want the middle class to build wealth, they serve the rich, which includes the telecom monopolies.

[Mikoyan]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...iffs-1.7431085

Not generally a fan of Ford, but he's right.

"Speaking to reporters after an hours-long meeting between the 13 premiers and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in Ottawa, Ford said Canada must unite to confront Trump's proposed economic aggression and his promise of a 25 per cent tariff on Canadian imports.

Ford said he and the other premiers are in agreement with Trudeau that Canada must be prepared to use "every tool in its toolbox" to make the U.S. pay if it goes ahead with tariffs that have the potential to throw the economy into a tailspin.

Ford said Smith is focused on protecting Alberta's oil patch.

"That's her choice. I have a little different theory: protect your jurisdiction but country comes first, Canada's the priority," he said.

"He's going full tilt at Canadians as a whole," Ford said of Trump. "We need to be united. United we stand, divided we fall."

Smith did not come to Ottawa for the meeting and joined the discussion virtually from Panama.

[whitev70r]

who thinks Hondaracer should make a run at being an MP? He's got such astute observations and good ideas.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

With all that money displaced people has tripled since and gangs control the entire capital and most of the country

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93q7ey90yzo.amp

If there ever was a lost cause, this is it.

I don’t think anyone, even on the global stage would bat an eye if you stopped funding this mess.

I think the reality of it, being an island nation, is that you don’t worry about it THAT much because people are much more likely to die on said rafts than make it to another country.

The problem with so many of these things is there is -no way- to measure the outcome. How can you? You have no one on the ground, you likely have no one down the chain of there this money flows, it’s impossible to quantify the outcome by any measure.

YEah except Haiti isn't a completely island nation. They border the Dominican Republic, a place where thousands of Canadians vacation every winter.

Oh and..."let them die on rafts" is some pretty fucked up rationalizing.

[westopher]

I'd genuinely like to know where the 400 million dollars went, but I'm also sure Honda can't tell me that.
Is there some sort of definitive proof that money is just wasted or embezzled by someone or a group?
If it's helping, that's kinda the point anyways. As much as people want to stamp their feet and say we are so fucked up in Canada spend the money here help the homeless veterans etc. it seems to always be the same people that complain about social programs that help those people.
I really just want some honestly from people to say "I don't give a fuck about anyone else."
I'll at least respect the honesty while I disrespect the selfishness instead of seeing a bunch of selfish liars.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Traum

Dood, you really do live in a paralle universe, don't you?

Taiwan's COVID situation was never that bad. It stayed relatively COVID-free for the better part of what... almost 2 years (?) before it finally hit home on a large scale. They pretty much closed off their incoming international passenger traffic, but the local Taiwanese economy didn't stop, except for the supply chain issues that affected every country in the world.

I am not familiar with Korea, other than that they got hit hard by COVID medically. So I won't comment on things I don't know about.

China did not provide any COVID era support to its people, and as a result, Chinese people used up all their savings to survive through the hard lockdowns, and when it came time to rebound, consumers and business owners simply had no money left to re-start their economy. Canada and much of the Western World provided financial support to its people and businesses, and as a result, when the economy opened up again, they were able to quickly rebound. The evidence is pretty clear about that.

COVID exposed many of the weaknesses of our healthcare system, but the covidiots and their mistreatment of our medical staff did a lot of harm to cause our healthcare staff to quit. IMO, that did far more damage to our fragile healthcare system than COVID had done.

And Argentina "going from textbook hyperinflation territory to one of the lowest in G20"? The latest monthly figure -- yes, it's at 2.7%. But at recently as last month, it was still as high as 25%. The overall annual inflation rate for 2024 is still 117.8%. He has done a good job in bringing it down from almost 300%, but they are not out of the woods yet. And IIRC, they have also significantly devalued their peso as part of the inflation-fighting strategy, so anything they have to import are still very expensive.

Taiwan was relatively well shielded from the initial outbreak because they had a better protocol that they learnt from SARS. And the fast response from the govt also played a pivotal role in it. This plus the fact that their medical system is much more robust than ours. When I’m in Taiwan, I never have to wait for more than an hour to receive medical attention regardless of the time that I go to.

Our govt was slow to react to it and everything was done when there was no better option. Remember how they said limiting the international traffic was “discrimination”?

Their economy didn’t stop not because they didn’t suffer the same pandemic or covid was any easier on them. If anything, given their density and close proximity to the epicenter, their situation was far worse than ours. TW govt however, took the difficult but important decision that we needed our leaders to make. While our govt was busy being politically correct, they made the decisions that were needed to minimize the impact. By pointing out what happened in Taiwan did nothing more than showing how much out govt actually failed.

Argentina is my second home and I can tell you first hand, that the place is far better now than it has ever been the last few decades.

The inflation numbers you posted, and just FYI, those are not annualized like we do here. But MoM. Yes, 23% inflation over a month period. And the “devaluation” that you mentioned, that is at official level. It used to be that the Argentina central bank will post one rate, while the market has a totally different rate. Right now USD:ARS is about 1:1000, but the secondary market, dollar blue is around 1:1200. You think 20% discrepancy is huge? Before Millei came to power, that breach between official and secondary is easily doubled. So the central bank will give you say 1:380, the blue as they call it is at 1:800. They can’t just exchange peso to USD at will like we can here. There were a lot of restrictions in place.

You think you read some news on CNN and you know everything. Wake up kiddo, the world is far more cruel than what they want you to believe.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

YEah except Haiti isn't a completely island nation. They border the Dominican Republic, a place where thousands of Canadians vacation every winter.

Oh and..."let them die on rafts" is some pretty fucked up rationalizing.

lol well it’s not like I’m getting off on that, I think that’s just the sad reality of the situation. You don’t need to build border walls and spend all this money on keeping undesirables out when you have a vast ocean between you

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by westopher

I'd genuinely like to know where the 400 million dollars went, but I'm also sure Honda can't tell me that.
Is there some sort of definitive proof that money is just wasted or embezzled by someone or a group?
If it's helping, that's kinda the point anyways. As much as people want to stamp their feet and say we are so fucked up in Canada spend the money here help the homeless veterans etc. it seems to always be the same people that complain about social programs that help those people.
I really just want some honestly from people to say "I don't give a fuck about anyone else."
I'll at least respect the honesty while I disrespect the selfishness instead of seeing a bunch of selfish liars.

If there is no way to measure the success of said funding, it’s a failure. I don’t how how else it can be viewed.

Even with Ukraine, at least a lot of the support was in tangible, physical things, vehicles, weapons, ammunition, etc.

The govt. is terrible at awarding contracts to companies and non-profits domestically, how could anyone ever trust money going into a place like Haiti would be used effectively, let alone embezzled etc.

[westopher]

You are just basing things off of cynicism with no actual knowledge of what's going on though. Don't you think having such a solidified opinion on something with know way to explain why you got to that opinion is kind of ignorant? Like at least have something to back it up. You'd be the first person to call someone stupid if they said it was a success with absolutely no tangible evidence or even an explanation without evidence to back that up