Canadian politics thread

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by quasi

Canada's justice system, we have to give the criminal every opportunity to be their best selves. Fuck the victims, their suffering isn't of importance.

This is why you might as well bring vigilante justice back. Even if you destroy your enemies you’ll likely just get community service as a punishment.

[Hondaracer]

You’re way more likely to get a severe punishment serving that vigilante justice than the person committing the crime.

Ie. if you knocked that groper out and the guy fell and hit his head on the curb, you’d be the one charged and in jail. As opposed to a sexual predator released on bail with no conditions..

[underscore]

Carney says he'll scrap the carbon tax. Since that was PPs main verb the noun I wonder how that'll sway things.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/car...-tax-1.7446908

[GLOW]

people would have to believe him first.

[Hondaracer]

Well, if you read into it it sounds like it’s just going to be restructured in a different way and called something else.

Not a bad move but doubtful it’s enough to sway anything other than a small minority

[Traum]

I am not trying to support the revolving door justice system that we have, but I can sort of see some of the reasons it continues to happen.

We operate on a common law system, and the way courts work in a common law system is, the sentencing is based on a combination of the criminal code and precedence from similar previous cases. If a judge's ruling deviates too much from it without strong reasons, the convicted person will likely appeal the ruling.

With so much slap on the hand type of penalty, the judges pretty much have to go along with precedence.

IMO, we also need bail reform because everybody agrees that if someone is on their 30th convicted assault charge, the guy is just gonna go out and do it again pretty soon.

Our jails and detention centers are full. We don't have enough staff to run the facilities as it is, and our govs are reluctant to allocate more funding to build the correctional facilities and hire more staff at an attractive enough wage. I'd also tend to believe (without concrete evidence) that the judges must also know this correctional facility shortage, so they try not to send too many people to jail and overwhelm a system that is already bursting at its seams.

Our society has too many bleeding heart advocates that want to save everyone and give everyone a near infinite number of chances to redeem themselves. As a very cynical realist, I absolutely do not believe that. I want to be a generous person too, but at some point -- you gotta start hitting them progressively harder.

[Hondaracer]

Without consequences for your actions, what’s the deterrent?

Like.. society is just gonna get worse and worse, there’s infinite data as population increases so does the occurance of crime. It doesn’t matter if it’s a “lower percentage” relative to the population

If in the 80’s 1 person per 100 commited violent assaults but now in 2025 it’s 1 person in a 150 but our population has quadrupled in the same time, you still need places to lock those people up lol.. there are MORE people committing crimes albeit to a lesser percentage of the population, that still means that our system isn’t adequate to punish the number of people who commit said crimes.

[Traum]

You know, IMO, deterrent doesn't even work chronic offenders. Some of them just DGAF -- it's basically part of the ritual, or the cost of doing business. For others, they are out of options. Crime is the only thing they know, and they don't have the mental fortitude to overcome that difficult barrier and build themselves a proper life.

Society should obviously have more sympathy towards the second group, but in our realistic world, the available resources will always be a limiting factor. At some point when a person has been given enough chances to redeem themselves, and they still don't, or is unable to do so, you just gotta pull the plug.

The difficult part is determining how many chances are enough chances. Currently, our Canadian system is basically running off a near-infinite number of chances, and people are fed up with that.

[Traum]

OK, not sure if this should really go into:

- the Canadian politics thread
- the Trump thread, or
- the EV thread

But I am really liking Freeland's suggestion to hit Teslas with a 100% tariff LOL~

I doubt that Musk would even care, and I am not even sure whether that would violate the terms set out by USMCA, since we are supposed to have free trade with US and Mexico, esp when it comes to the automotive sector. But hey, if the US is the one violating the terms of the USMCA first, then I guess it would be fine for us to follow suit?

I still don't think Freeland should be the next Liberals leader though, cuz she would still carry too much baggage from the Turdeau era, and that means Canadian voters would not vote for her.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

OK, not sure if this should really go into:

- the Canadian politics thread
- the Trump thread, or
- the EV thread

But I am really liking Freeland's suggestion to hit Teslas with a 100% tariff LOL~

I doubt that Musk would even care, and I am not even sure whether that would violate the terms set out by USMCA, since we are supposed to have free trade with US and Mexico, esp when it comes to the automotive sector. But hey, if the US is the one violating the terms of the USMCA first, then I guess it would be fine for us to follow suit?

I still don't think Freeland should be the next Liberals leader though, cuz she would still carry too much baggage from the Turdeau era, and that means Canadian voters would not vote for her.

I like it as well - targeted, painful for them and not painful for us.

[Mikoyan]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Well, if you read into it it sounds like it’s just going to be restructured in a different way and called something else.

Not a bad move but doubtful it’s enough to sway anything other than a small minority

Carbon Resort fee.

[JDMDreams]

You know what would show them? 100% tariffs on and Apple, Teslas, we start importing Chinese EV and Huawei with no tariffs tomorrow. Cheaper cars for everyone + boost economy.

[unit]

tariffs on apple wouldnt help canada at all though since even their competition doesnt get built here. at least target companies where we might buy alternatives that we have a stake in.

[meme405]

Also nobody wants a huawei...

and yes i'm an android user.

[Dbone]

Let's not pretend China is going to save us.

[Gumby]

If the 25% tariffs are applied, the Canadian government says that they will be ready with a response. Unfortunately, I don't really have faith in the Canadian government...

[Manic!]

100% bring in Chinese cars. I guarantee the goverment has tariffs ready. They did last time. Companies like Harley Davidson where hit last time.

[whitev70r]

What am I missing here? If Canada retaliates with tariffs, yes, it shows we are not going to back down to the US bully but doesn't tariffs on US goods result in higher prices for you and me? When US puts tariffs on Canadian goods, it results in loss of sales in the US and most likely job losses in Canada. But how do tariffs on US goods help Canadians?

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

What am I missing here? If Canada retaliates with tariffs, yes, it shows we are not going to back down to the US bully but doesn't tariffs on US goods result in higher prices for you and me? When US puts tariffs on Canadian goods, it results in loss of sales in the US and most likely job losses in Canada. But how do tariffs on US goods help Canadians?

The thinking is that Canadians will substitute orange juice made from Floridan oranges for apple juice that's made from Canadian applies, for example. Or abstain from drinking bourbon from Kentucky.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

lol it’s not my job to fix this shit, are you kidding me?

Who said it was your job to fix it? But it would be helpful to know if the strategy on fixing this (which we all agree on) be on building more jails? Or, should it be tighter mandatory sentences? Or, opening up Riverview 2.0? Or, all of the above. Or should it be just posting it on forums ad nauseum?

[rymack]

I rarely reply here but wanted to chime in on the criminal justice thing. I think we can all agree the system is ...what? ..outdated? broken? non functioning? I Can almost guarantee you that if you asked those working in the courts ( crown prosecutors , judges ) they would say the same thing.

Ive had a family member that was a judge . They were fairly frustrated by the system they worked in as well. What they were allowed to do in terms of sentencing etc isn't always straight forward.
For instance ( i cant recall the exact details) the lengths of sentence can vary where the convicted go to jail ( federal and provincial) and that can effect how long before they can be out on good behavior. and held within the courts purview. So if its 2years or more they go federal and 2 years less a day or less its provincial. If they go Federal its automatic release at 2/3rds served ( in most cases). However in provincial i dont think its automatic and in addition the judge can give the convicted additional demands to keep reporting to the judge for a few years beyond the sentence ( again details are vague in my recall). The gits of it was sometimes a provincial court judge might hand a seemingly lower sentence to a criminal but it may mean that the criminal will have a longer involvement/oversight by the court.

That doesnt really address the revolving door aspect of our system though . My friend who is a crown prosecutor (not someone you would call a bleeding heart) says it comes down to the courts are a terrible place to deal with mental health and addictions ( which in my mind are pretty close to the same thing), which is a majority if not all of the revolving door aspect. How do you fix that? I'm not sure . Probably requires constitutional reform ? I
have another friend who is a VPD officer and a card carrying conservative. His stance on the crime and mental health is so similar to my wife (|who is as left as center as they come) is scary . His stance is the people on the downtown eastside for example have no chance. Between mental health , addictions , trauma etc they will never be able to turn it around in the current system.

From everything ive heard from these and other sources the number one thing we could do to cut crime etc would be to fix the broken mental health and addictions issues. Build in the adequate structural changes ( recover centers , mental health facilities etc). Thats easier said then done though. where are you going to find the people to staff these pkaces if you had the political will to build them? No easy answers.

[whitev70r]

see .. try and learn something Honda. Informative replies with stories of friends/family who work in the different levels of the system.

@rymack, try and chime in more.

[Hondaracer]

I’ve posted before along the same lines knowing people who work in the DTES and how it’s just a cash cow for non-profits.

Very clearly, the answer isn’t status quo.

This is the same stupid shit we’ve already had with Covid “oh woe is us.. who will staff these places? Who will enact change???”

That shit should have started YESTERDAY

Our political system is full of cowards who only have personal gain in mind, and everyone is so incompetent no one could ever have the balls to just toss a bunch of money at a problem with a concrete plan. We ALWAYS do things half ass.

Rebuild river view, overhaul the addiction treatment system, monetarily incentive working in these industries, fast track training and certification whether this is through mentorship, coop training, etc.

I can guarantee you, if criminal legislation had some teeth, crime would drop. Enact a THIRTY chance program. On your thirtieth offense, you’re locked up for 5 years.

The liberals gun legislation is an exact parallel to the criminal justice system as a whole. You completely miss the mark on what you’re trying to achieve while spending BILLIONS of dollars in ineffective programs and wasteful legislation.

There isn’t a law abiding, legal, gun owner in this county that would be opposed to some kid running around with skytrain with a loaded handgun going to jail for 5 years when he’s caught. But no.. take away farmers shotguns and register long rifles literally never used in crimes.

Someone do fucking SOMTHING with some teeth ffs..

By the way, I actually tried to do something “the proper way” in wRiTe yOuR MlA!!!”

I wrote a well worded email to both Jenny Kwan (federal MP) and Niki Sharma (provincial MLA) about homelessness and crime and what their govt. plans to do to address these issues as constituent in their ridings. Generic auto reply from Jenny, -nothing- from Nikki.

Thanks elected officials. Not like they were gonna say/do a thing anyways.

[Hondaracer]

BC judges just made a 29% pay increase over a 4 year span with most making $340,000 or more a year now

https://www.timescolonist.com/opinio...he-law-8099460

That’s a sweet fucking gig to enable public disorder.

[westopher]

lol judges hands are tied by precedent. They aren't like "hey fuck yeah I got money go stab someone"
It's years of judgements, stipulations, and shoddy police work in investigations that get people off.
If anything be mad at the spineless lawyers that get people off from crimes they knew were committed based on technicalities.