Canadian politics thread

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by 68style

Why are some people so obsessed with transgender people?

There’s so crazy few of them… so why are they such a focus for… well… you and others?

Just leave them be they’re not bothering you. At least none I’ve ever met bothered anyone. Like I said before statistics show that 2 out of every 100,000 kids actually try to convert so why are you soooooooo worried?

Seems to me you worrying about them and fighting about it with everybody is exactly what “they” want? More division between people over nothingburgers focused away from actual issues.

I personally have no issue with adults making almost any choices except those which directly harm others. Feel free to be gay, trans, single, or identify as a cat on my watch - no problem. I can't promise I won't crack a joke from time to time, but I promise to be equal opportunity and make fun of straight white males too.

However, I do personally have a problem with allowing children to make a permanent, life-altering decision to change their body chemistry. As a society, we do not allow 14 year olds to drive, vote, join the military, get a tattoo, sign up for a credit card, get married, make X rated videos, or any number of other permanent decisions (with, or without parental approval) because the majority of us agree that:
1) teenagers do not have the ability to fully evaluate the long term impacts of their choice without the perspective of being older
2) teenagers are far more susceptible to being influenced by friends, parents, celebrities, complete strangers to make decisions they may regret

I personally believe that for every child that makes (or has made for them) a decision to have this kind of transition made, there will be a meaningful percentage later in life who wish they hadn't. By requiring kids to wait until they are older, I think some who fall in this camp will have had the time to figure out for themselves what they want, and those who truly want to complete this process once they are 19, go nuts.

-Mark

[SkinnyPupp]

Russia has melted peoples brains. We saw the result of that in the US, but I think most Canadians are reasonable enough to see through it. That's why there's only a few of them here, and people constantly push back on them despite what a waste of time it is.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by lowside67

I personally believe that for every child that makes (or has made for them) a decision to have this kind of transition made, there will be a meaningful percentage later in life who wish they hadn't.

You could go off actual stats instead of just beliefs, it's ~4-8%. Of those, 64% only do so temporarily. The best way to reduce that number would be to give people better support before and after they transition, not try to take it away.

Originally Posted by lowside67

By requiring kids to wait until they are older, I think some who fall in this camp will have had the time to figure out for themselves what they want, and those who truly want to complete this process once they are 19, go nuts.

...they already are required to wait.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by lowside67

I personally have no issue with adults making almost any choices except those which directly harm others. Feel free to be gay, trans, single, or identify as a cat on my watch - no problem. I can't promise I won't crack a joke from time to time, but I promise to be equal opportunity and make fun of straight white males too.

However, I do personally have a problem with allowing children to make a permanent, life-altering decision to change their body chemistry. As a society, we do not allow 14 year olds to drive, vote, join the military, get a tattoo, sign up for a credit card, get married, make X rated videos, or any number of other permanent decisions (with, or without parental approval) because the majority of us agree that:
1) teenagers do not have the ability to fully evaluate the long term impacts of their choice without the perspective of being older
2) teenagers are far more susceptible to being influenced by friends, parents, celebrities, complete strangers to make decisions they may regret

I personally believe that for every child that makes (or has made for them) a decision to have this kind of transition made, there will be a meaningful percentage later in life who wish they hadn't. By requiring kids to wait until they are older, I think some who fall in this camp will have had the time to figure out for themselves what they want, and those who truly want to complete this process once they are 19, go nuts.

-Mark

The point was made many times, that you can not have the surgery to fully transition, until you are 18/19, so it's moot.

[MarkyMark]

Where do puberty blockers fit in? I'm assuming since you're blocking puberty these people are not 19 and what are the repercussions of doing this to your growing body?

Actually asking not looking for a anti trans fight.

[westopher]

Puberty blockers happen early (early puberty) but have no long term or irreversible effects. Once you stop, the body essentially picks up where it left off.
This is actual info from a medical source.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/art-20459075

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by underscore

...they already are required to wait.

Originally Posted by westopher

The point was made many times, that you can not have the surgery to fully transition, until you are 18/19, so it's moot.

I have tried to educate myself a bit, but I am not an expert and open to being corrected. However, my understanding is that there are chemical/pharmaceutical products that can be accessed by minors which still have permanent effects such as preventing puberty?

-Mark

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by westopher

Puberty blockers happen early (early puberty) but have no long term or irreversible effects.

The above is pure misinformation. There is no clear picture. The experiment on children continues.

YouTube

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by underscore

You could go off actual stats instead of just beliefs, it's ~4-8%. Of those, 64% only do so temporarily. The best way to reduce that number would be to give people better support before and after they transition, not try to take it away.

The actual sample size is not very large and particularly so if we are looking to understand people who are 10, 20, 30 years after transitioning. I think it's reasonable to want to have good data before committing to major policy decisions.

-Mark

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by westopher

Puberty blockers happen early (early puberty) but have no long term or irreversible effects. Once you stop, the body essentially picks up where it left off.
This is actual info from a medical source.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/art-20459075

Part of that source also says:

Possible side effects of GnRH analogue treatment include:

Swelling at the site of the shot.
Weight gain.
Hot flashes.
Headaches.
Mood changes.

Use of GnRH analogues also might have long-term effects on:

Growth spurts.
Bone growth.
Bone density.
Fertility, depending on when the medicine is started.


So definitely not what I would call no irreversible effects. At 10 years old I'd have a very hard time getting on board with my kid wanting that. It actually kind of makes me wonder how many kids at 10 years old are actually asking for this without any persuasion whatsoever.

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Part of that source also says:

Possible side effects of GnRH analogue treatment include:

The gender clinic owner's new Porsche.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Part of that source also says:

Possible side effects of GnRH analogue treatment include:

Swelling at the site of the shot.
Weight gain.
Hot flashes.
Headaches.
Mood changes.

Use of GnRH analogues also might have long-term effects on:

Growth spurts.
Bone growth.
Bone density.
Fertility, depending on when the medicine is started.


So definitely not what I would call no irreversible effects. At 10 years old I'd have a very hard time getting on board with my kid wanting that. It actually kind of makes me wonder how many kids at 10 years old are actually asking for this without any persuasion whatsoever.

Sorry I was unclear, no irreversible effects in terms of gender/sex.
It also clearly says that they won't be prescribed to anyone without long term diagnosed gender dysphoria (which isn't likely to be happening at 10) and psychologic/psychiatric history and recommendation, but you didn't include that part in the post.
I still don't understand why people are so opposed with the "what ifs" but don't include the "what ifs" about adolescent suicides for people who have experienced gender dysphoria.
If you're worried about kids you should be looking at that side of it too.
More than 40% of people with gender dysphoria attempt suicide at some point. Do we think there's a possibility of that being due to the amount of people talking shit about them and using them as political pawns in the culture wars?
Have any of the people against it spoken to a transgender person, or asked them if the opportunity to these treatments has helped them?
As a parent, you have every right to not be on board with that for your 10 year old, but if someone is on board, and it helps their child, do you think it would be fair that they don't have access to that because you don't agree with it?

[VRYALT3R3D]

plz no more gross af transformers robots in disguise talks, unless its about a transmission.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by lowside67

The actual sample size is not very large and particularly so if we are looking to understand people who are 10, 20, 30 years after transitioning. I think it's reasonable to want to have good data before committing to major policy decisions.

-Mark

How can you get a larger sample size if you don't allow anyone to do it?

imo one of the most important metrics is the suicide rate. If it's reducing youth suicides then it's something that we should be providing support services for to ensure it's provided when needed. We can provide support to someone who made a mistake and wants to detransition. We can't provide support to someone who is dead because they couldn't transition.

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

plz no more gross af transformers robots in disguise talks, unless its about a transmission.

I know a guy who bought a 2006ish Silverado and got ripped off on the price... then, like a month later, the 4L60e took a shit. Quotes to rebuild it, last time I talked to him, was around 4k! This is after he paid $7,500 for the completely rust-eaten shitbox. I told him it was a ripoff, but he HAD to buy it to fit his Okanagan country image.

Now he drives it around in 1st gear where he floors it to get to redline, then coasts until traffic behind him catches up, drops it into first, floors it to redline, and coasts again.

Fuck automatic transmissions. Go with a manual and you can throw a used junkyard manual, on special you can get an entire transmission from Pick-N-Pull for $200, then add a fresh couple-hundred buck clutch in, fresh tranny oil, and you're good to go for under $500. Easily doable on a single weekend if you're even slightly prepared.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by westopher

Sorry I was unclear, no irreversible effects in terms of gender/sex.
It also clearly says that they won't be prescribed to anyone without long term diagnosed gender dysphoria (which isn't likely to be happening at 10) and psychologic/psychiatric history and recommendation, but you didn't include that part in the post.
I still don't understand why people are so opposed with the "what ifs" but don't include the "what ifs" about adolescent suicides for people who have experienced gender dysphoria.
If you're worried about kids you should be looking at that side of it too.
More than 40% of people with gender dysphoria attempt suicide at some point. Do we think there's a possibility of that being due to the amount of people talking shit about them and using them as political pawns in the culture wars?
Have any of the people against it spoken to a transgender person, or asked them if the opportunity to these treatments has helped them?
As a parent, you have every right to not be on board with that for your 10 year old, but if someone is on board, and it helps their child, do you think it would be fair that they don't have access to that because you don't agree with it?

It also says:

"Taking puberty blockers alone, however, without other medical or behavioral treatment, might not be enough to ease gender dysphoria"

So you're most likely using this in conjunction with other drugs as well, i can't imagine any of this is actually good for you medically but I guess if the only other option is offing yourself then it's a pretty shitty spot to be in.

[68style]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

Flame away, but transgenderism is the only mental illness with surgical body mutilation as the “cure.” All we hear is that people need to love their bodies (it’s ok to be fat, ugly, whatever), but if someone thinks they need to surgically alter their body and become dependent on hormone therapy for life, we all jump on board. We are humoring mentally ill people.

That’s just your opinion because it crosses a line for you personally and that’s fine if you are against it, but there’s no need for you to tell people they’re mentally ill because they exist.

Maybe you’re the one that’s mentally ill for the way you think? I’m sure there’s something in the DSM about what you’ve said above.

Unfortunately having a lot of cars doesn’t make you grand arbiter of anything.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

It also says:

"Taking puberty blockers alone, however, without other medical or behavioral treatment, might not be enough to ease gender dysphoria"

So you're most likely using this in conjunction with other drugs as well, i can't imagine any of this is actually good for you medically but I guess if the only other option is offing yourself then it's a pretty shitty spot to be in.

I imagine that also refers to mental health treatment, like therapists as well and doesn't necessarily mean other drugs, but that said like 90% of people with this issue also suffer from depression so I'd imagine antidepressants are 99% of any other drugs that would be used in conjunction.
You mentioned it though, these people are in shitty spots, which is why they should be given any chance they can at happiness.
I have no history of this in family or close friends, but my friend has a trans daughter (born male)
This kid, who's now 19 went from a suicidal young boy, to a happy young woman in a 4 year span. As soon as they started living their life as a female, it was a near instantaneous change.
Not pointing this at you, as it's clear you have interest in actually knowing the facts about it and the risks it poses, but seeing people attack people like her, when she finally gets a chance at happiness, because of bigoted, misguided and lie based views, it makes my fucking blood boil and fills me with disgust. What kind of a fucking piece of shit does someone have to be to try and victimize these people further and mask it as some "save the children" bullshit.

[68style]

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

>cracks knuckles<

Oh my sweet, summer child...

If you're in publishing, education, tech, fashion, or any industry dominated by liberal orthodoxy, you know this isn't a passing phase. It's a gatekeeper. Controlling who gets hired, who gets published, and who gets a seat at the table. Disagree? You're out. All the talk about inclusivity is thrown out the window the moment you think for youself. You won't get published, promoted, or even invited to speak. It's a shibboleth. You either conform or disappear.

This isn't a fringe movement. It's mainstream, institutionalized, and backed by the full weight of corporate power, government law, and the cultural establishment. Critical thought's a crime. Skepticism? Hate speech. See Dallas Brodie. You don't question things; you must obey. Hipster-flavoured rebellion was captured and turned into a machine that feeds the very system the aesthetic pushed back against. Wokeness isn't freedom, it's total compliance. They've hijacked rebellion and turned it into a tool to lock you into thinking, speaking, and acting in a single way. The moment you question, you're labeled a hater, a threat, and the whole progressive battalion comes at you. While you claim "such a small group of people", they are just the tip of the spear with the full weight of progressives, politicians, institutions and billionaires behind it. Anyone who is on WokeScene can see how modern Canadians tend to act in complete agreement on every current_thing. They know the nail that sticks up, gets hammered down.

The power structures behind the LGBTQ+ and trans movements? They're not revolutionary but they cloak themselves that way. They're the front line of controlled opposition for the billionaire virtue-signaling elite. Straight progressives like Mark Carney and Trudeau parade behind them, marching with fervour, using them as shields to push their own agendas because questioning their front line troops is a recipe for a total cancellation in Canada these days.

Totalitarianism didn't come wrapped in a flag or holding a cross, here in Canada, it's wearing a dress and carrying puberty blockers for children. If you dare to question it, the full weight of the progressive machine, the liberal orthodoxy, comes down on you. Just like it did during COVID when you had real, legitimate questions of the American vaccine for massive American profits, pushed with sweeping government powers.

This is the new establishment: climate change, Ukraine, trans rights, COVID vaccines, BLM and the "215 dead children", these are the sacred cows you can't challenge. This is the era of the "elbows up" elites, the influencers with their woke narratives. We all know if you question any of the above, your liberal "friends" will be the first to come at you with daggers dripping with venom.

You don't have to look hard to see how cultural power has been totally twisted. It's not about freedom anymore. it's about getting you to comply with the new order. Wokeness isn't about feeding the poor, lifting up your fellow man, or challenging billionaires, it's about protecting the narrative that protects the status quo.

Wokeness is marching us all towards a future where we all agree with the party, because, if you don't, you're going to be jobless, homeless, and out on the street.

See the funny thing is, I don’t believe in every single trend you refer to as woke and it doesn’t always personally suit me and here’s the really weird thing — I’ve never been fired from anywhere or in trouble in any way anywhere in my life or in society because I didn’t feel the need to try to impress my will or scream about making statements or yell about “I should be able to do whatever the fuck I want” … like if I get told at work I need to address someone by pronouns then okay maybe it makes them feel better as a person and makes them happy… even if I don’t like to do it then what skin is it off my nose?

Is it fair if someone gets, say, fired because they make a mistake and say something wrong? Probably not, that’s gone too far, but that’s a separate thing entirely that will meter itself out as time goes on and so far as I can tell from what I see around me at workplaces it always has.

You might as well rail on #metoo movements as well and hammer on the power of all those molested and denigrated women in various industries how dare they try to swing the balance of power away from where it’s always been right? Men should be able to be men and take what they want!

The fact you’ve flushed your financial life down the toilet multiple times, getting handed houses and frittering them away, making $10-15k a month for years and never saving a single penny of it and you’re STILL in a position to recover from it shows the power of the entitlement your status in society has provided you, but no it’s liberal idealism that’s fucked you right? Not blatantly stupid decision making, selfishness and a complete lack of forward thinking.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by 68style

That’s just your opinion because it crosses a line for you personally and that’s fine if you are against it, but there’s no need for you to tell people they’re mentally ill because they exist.

Maybe you’re the one that’s mentally ill for the way you think? I’m sure there’s something in the DSM about what you’ve said above.

Unfortunately having a lot of cars doesn’t make you grand arbiter of anything.

Anyhow, I am looking forward to Pierre Poilievre becoming Prime Minister later this year.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

Anyhow, I am looking forward to Pierre Poilievre becoming Prime Minister later this year.

[Badhobz]

Excuse me. This mofo is buying a ladle with holes in it ?!? Aka Chinese gao zi scooper ?!?! Maybe for hotpot ?!?

Traitor ! He’s CCCP !!!! Get’m toys

[underscore]

Originally Posted by 68style

Is it fair if someone gets, say, fired because they make a mistake and say something wrong? Probably not, that’s gone too far, but that’s a separate thing entirely that will meter itself out as time goes on and so far as I can tell from what I see around me at workplaces it always has.

Has anyone actually gotten fired for making a genuine mistake? Like an actual honest mistake, not someone who is intentionally doing it to harass someone.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by underscore

Has anyone actually gotten fired for making a genuine mistake? Like an actual honest mistake, not someone who is intentionally doing it to harass someone.

I think he meant that people were getting fired for not having the vaccine and universities were not allowing students to attend graduation ceremonies or attend class unless they had proof of covid19 vaccination. Then after covid "ended", they dropped that requirement...

[supafamous]

Guys, I saw a tampon/liner dispenser today in the men's washroom at Norquay Park (East Van). It made me want to have my period. Let's go burn it down!