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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
That is a static view of wealth and income distribution. We don't live in a caste society where those at the bottom stay at the bottom. What matters more is if Canadians have better upward mobility or not and if households are better off or worse off over time. Your comment that the 20% have 67% of the wealth in Canada is misleading because the sample never stays the same from year-to-year. How many people moved up or down? etc etc
The media always twists things. We need more housing but we can't build on the greenbelt lmfao. So what do they do? They build more housing on the most expensive land in Ontario and always the wrong type of housing(more shotty-built condos).
If you didn't understand why the Greenbelt scandal was a scandal, you need to look at how the whole idea was proposed from the start again. It isn't just about housing. The level of corruption that was present right from the get-go is mind-boggling, and I am honestly surprised that Ontarians are OK with giving Ford a pass on this just bcos he reversed course.
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Then the liberal party was crying about how Doug Ford shut down the Science Centre and sold it off to his "rich developer friends," but the land is owned by the City of Toronto and the building that was there was a decaying piece of crap with a dangerous roof.
Yeah, the land is technically still owned by Toronto, but Ford gave his rich developer friends a 99 year lease on the land. So how far from the truth is the accusation that the land has been sold off?
Also, independent reports have suggested that only sections of the science center's roof needs to be repaired, at a cost that is quite managable to the province. There have also been developers coming out to say they are willing to do the work for free (though it isn't clear to me whether they are just offering to do the labour for free, or whether they'd include providing materials as well). But Ford has insisted on pushing through the project.
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The #1 focus on this <federal> election is the economy. The liberals have a terrible track record so far. Over the past 5 years, we have witnessed massive asset bubbles propped up by a government that artificially kept interest rates low. Now things are starting to unravel rapidly.
The shift in voter sentiments have suggested that the election isn't just about the economy -- people are legitimately concerned about how we can best stand up to the various threats coming from Trump. The economy is of course included as part of that concern. And when you look at the track records of the 2 leading candidates, I think it is pretty obvious that Carney's CV looks a lot more convincing on the economic front than PeePee's.
I do have some concerns about how there would be carry over ministers and political appointees if Carney wins.
Interest rates have been kept low from about Q1 2009 until Q1 2022. Then it started rapidly climbing until July 2023, and stayed high until April 2024 before it started slowly dropping. So I wouldn't agree that interest rates have been kept artifically low for the past 5 years.
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Originally Posted by westopher
The whole world has gone down a road no one can recover from, and it's nothing to do with governments, it's because so much of the general public is so fucking stupid.
Should we be taking economics lessons from someone who complained about not being able to buy a detached house in Toronto but owns nearly half a mill in cars?
Who cares about her? Is she running for Prime Minister?
Poilievre has made his position clear as early as January:
“He’s made it clear he wants to put America first, I’m making it clear I want to put Canada first and that means we have to develop our own infrastructure to export our energy and resources to the rest of the world without going through the U.S., we have to allow more interprovincial free trade in our own,” he said.
“I would say to President Trump, I will retaliate with trade tariffs against American goods that are necessary to discourage America attacking our industries. I’d rather we work together, though, because if we do, we can have a bigger, stronger economy.”
“Frankly, if he cuts off his refineries and LNG plants from our resources then there’s going to be lots of unionized American workers who are going to be out of a job, many of them voted of President Trump. So I’m going to say to him, ‘Look, you’re better off, and your workers are going to be way better off by deepening our trade relationship, not attacking your best friend in the whole world.”
That's the person running his campaign that's why we should care about her. Everything he says goes thru her first. PP only made that statement a few weeks back after seeing the poll numbers. He has flip flopped on so many issues you can't trust anything he says. His views on immigration change depending on if the the crowd/media are white or brown.
Here is him talking about a Punjabi restaurant that can't open because they can't get cooks from India. Like there is not a single person in Canada who can cook Indian food.
Keep failing me buddy, that'll make your points more true.
lmfao
The metrics in a social mobility index is completely useless. They don't have much predictive power and are not reproducible, nevermind the assumption biases that plaque it.
If you seriously think Canadians are better off now than 5 years ago, you are delusional.
Should we be taking economics lessons from someone who complained about not being able to buy a detached house in Toronto but owns nearly half a mill in cars?
I just bought a house in downtown Toronto actually. Closing on it in a couple of months.
p.s. I got my economics & stats double major degree from University of Toronto. You?
The metrics in a social mobility index is completely useless. They don't have much predictive power and are not reproducible, nevermind the assumption biases that plaque it.
If you seriously think Canadians are better off now than 5 years ago, you are delusional.
So then show me another metric then based on Social Mobility, you can't right? Because you would have already. Don't be a fucking clown and cherry pick whatever you think will support your argument and then shift goalposts
This is what you sound like:
It's GDP, no it's GDP per capita, No it's social mobility, no stop comparing us to the US, it's about what we were 5 years ago. But no, not like that!!
The metrics in a social mobility index is completely useless. They don't have much predictive power and are not reproducible, nevermind the assumption biases that plaque it.
If you seriously think Canadians are better off now than 5 years ago, you are delusional.
That's a strawman argument. When looking worldwide, who actually think they are better off now than they were 5 years ago, prior to COVID? That sentiment is a global wide issue.
I just bought a house in downtown Toronto actually. Closing on it in a couple of months.
p.s. I got my economics & stats double major degree from University of Toronto. You?
Congrats! I didn't take econ, but I'm not stuck on the fallacy that Conservatives are better at the economy either... history is definitely not on that argument's side.
Yeah, the land is technically still owned by Toronto, but Ford gave his rich developer friends a 99 year lease on the land. So how far from the truth is the accusation that the land has been sold off?
Really shows how much you know. They leased the land to build a tourist attraction. The Bud Stage has been working under that same model since the 90s, along with the SkyDome and Ripley's. Those were both built on federal land beside the CN tower.
Yes, the Science Centre land that was transferred for development...by the city of Toronto...to build affordable housing. Sorry for shattering your narrative, pal.
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Originally Posted by Traum
Also, independent reports have suggested that only sections of the science center's roof needs to be repaired, at a cost that is quite managable to the province. There have also been developers coming out to say they are willing to do the work for free (though it isn't clear to me whether they are just offering to do the labour for free, or whether they'd include providing materials as well). But Ford has insisted on pushing through the project.
The entire roof was recommended to be repaired, not specific sections. RAAC roofs are dangerous and can fail with little to no warning.
The shift in voter sentiments have suggested that the election isn't just about the economy -- people are legitimately concerned about how we can best stand up to the various threats coming from Trump. The economy is of course included as part of that concern. And when you look at the track records of the 2 leading candidates, I think it is pretty obvious that Carney's CV looks a lot more convincing on the economic front than PeePee's.
I do have some concerns about how there would be carry over ministers and political appointees if Carney wins.
Interest rates have been kept low from about Q1 2009 until Q1 2022. Then it started rapidly climbing until July 2023, and stayed high until April 2024 before it started slowly dropping. So I wouldn't agree that interest rates have been kept artifically low for the past 5 years.
lmfao Carney has done almost nothing to deal with the Trump tarriffs since he got elected. He didn't speak to Trump...there is a looming tarriff coming on April 2nd. How tone deaf can one be
lmfao Carney has done almost nothing to deal with the Trump tarriffs since he got elected. He didn't speak to Trump...there is a looming tarriff coming on April 2nd. How tone deaf can one be
I mean, you actually have very valid points here and there that are worthy of a thoughtful discussion (yes, GDP per capita is dropping and it's bad. yes, the Liberals record is bad for the last 10 years) and then you throw in these useless statements (just like the comparison to Alabama) that burns down your credibility.
It's like Tobi Lutke's turn to the hard right. He actually has really, really valid points about the state of Canada and then he throws absolutely idiotic statements into them like his most recent tweet about housing:
"Infinite space"? The fuck are you talking about Tobi? There's a reason we don't build in the middle of nowhere you stupid idiot. Cities are the power houses of our economy, if want to grow the economy you have to grow cities.
But his point that we tax the creation of new housing far too much is SUPER VALID and one I'm 10000% on board with. Can we then have a discussion about how to allocate the costs of new infrastructure fairly so we can have more housing? (instead of just saying don't tax it).
That's a strawman argument. When looking worldwide, who actually think they are better off now than they were 5 years ago, prior to COVID? That sentiment is a global wide issue.
More than half of Americans (52%) say they and their family are worse off today than they were four years ago
conservatives always conveniently forget that covid happened when it comes to the economy. its the main reason why so many people voted to change governments all over the world. inflation happened everywhere and opposition governments were easily able to convince voters that it was because of bad economic policies by the incumbents.
conservatives always conveniently forget that covid happened when it comes to the economy. its the main reason why so many people voted to change governments all over the world. inflation happened everywhere and opposition governments were easily able to convince voters that it was because of bad economic policies by the incumbents.
COVID... where the billionaires and the rich saw their wealth grow massively...
You mean that exaggerated bullshit that the ruling elites pushed to steal more wealth?
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Currently in exile
4th novel coming out soon
Might move back to Vancouver
That's a strawman argument. When looking worldwide, who actually think they are better off now than they were 5 years ago, prior to COVID? That sentiment is a global wide issue.
More than half of Americans (52%) say they and their family are worse off today than they were four years ago
My question to this would be, why does the comparison always have to come back to the US?
Everyone spends all their time just shitting on the US but when it’s convenient for arguments sake it’s always used as this direct comparison to Canada.
Socially and for a lot of govt. aspects we probably align closer to most Scandinavian countries than we do with the states.
Without the Turd colored glasses on, unless your some person worth 10’s of millions of dollars, Canada is far worse off now than it was in 2015. By the vast majority of measurable metrics, which, ironically, was largely the liberals platform back then. To improve those very things.
Canada is this fucking enigma where every single thing we try to fix is always left in this open ended state where no one can say whether something was a success or not. Anyone in systems analysis, process improvement, etc. understands that in order to validate your work, you need to be able to measure the outcome.
We just throw money at shit and have no way to measure the results. It’s constant. Whether it’s housing, or healthcare, or those “unmarked graves” Jason is on about. You were provided all this money to do something, you did it completely half ass, and when anyone questions whether this worked out or not, it’s racist, or biggoted, or isn’t professing reconciliation, or whatever fucking excuse you want to use lol.. then people are forced to wipe their hands of it and it just goes away like it always does
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
^this is absolutely correct. Agree 100% you need to have metrics in order to define success.
So... let's vote for the guy who's never held a private sector job and has catchy slogans over an actual trained economist who had to be held accountable for actual results!!! Fuck him he's just like Justin!!!
I'm not defending Trudeau, nor am I arguing that Canada is in a better place, but we have to call a spade a spade and have an honest argument here.
What I'm saying is that it's a bad faith argument to simply pretend the rest of the world isn't experiencing the same economic circumstances and difficulties we're having over here, Canada is not some solitary albatross in that people are in a worse economic position then they were prior to COVID.
I'm not defending Trudeau, nor am I arguing that Canada is in a better place, but we have to call a spade a spade and have an honest argument here.
What I'm saying is that it's a bad faith argument to simply pretend the rest of the world isn't experiencing the same economic circumstances and difficulties we're having over here, Canada is not some solitary albatross in that people are in a worse economic position then they were prior to COVID.
also the UK had a conservative gov for over a decade and only last year finally voted labour.
I'm not defending Trudeau, nor am I arguing that Canada is in a better place, but we have to call a spade a spade and have an honest argument here.
What I'm saying is that it's a bad faith argument to simply pretend the rest of the world isn't experiencing the same economic circumstances and difficulties we're having over here, Canada is not some solitary albatross in that people are in a worse economic position then they were prior to COVID.
The UK though, for a group of countries, or for arguments sake just using England alone, a country the size of BC has numerous towns where things are “cheap” they may not be the nicest places, but it would be like driving from Vancouver to Kelowna and the housing is half the cost if not less. People have options there.
What do you do in Canada if you can’t afford to live in a major city where all the work etc. is? In BC you’re looking at Prince George or worse
Unaffordablilty and being broke is compounded when everything costs more. Doesn’t matter if every country experienced the same percentage of inflation, if a beer is $8 in one country and $2 in another, inflation doesn’t hurt as bad.
And really, all that is to say, in different circumstances I wouldn’t really care about it. I’m fine, most people I know are fine. Have less disposable income but life goes on.
The problem with all this is the end result is homeless encampments and strung out drug addicts everywhere.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Last edited by Hondaracer; 03-24-2025 at 01:17 PM.
^this is absolutely correct. Agree 100% you need to have metrics in order to define success.
So... let's vote for the guy who's never held a private sector job and has catchy slogans over an actual trained economist who had to be held accountable for actual results!!! Fuck him he's just like Justin!!!
He may not be just like Justin, but the army of clowns behind him are all the same.
It’s the same stupid shit that’s always happened here, when I said JT before, it’s obviously referencing the liberal party as a whole.
But when someone says they prefer conservatives, you aren’t just voting for PP, you’re trying to elect an entirely new regime to replace people like Freeland etc. people who have proven their incompetence.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
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