Canadian politics thread

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Can someone point me to data/resources that outline what Honda describes as a totally failed criminal justice system? I'm asking so that I can form an informed opinion on the problem. Other than my opinion that the VPD has a terrible leader and is far too political I generally have no opinion on whether things are working or not - far as I have personally observed things are ok and there are far more important things for us to be focused on than crime and the system behind it.

Honda is just your average brain-dead Conservitard. Expect nothing from conservatives because they do not think. They only know how to react.

Totally failed criminal justice system:

Maybe look into the name "Myles Sanderson" just as an appetizer, since the woke-as-fuck CBC is so completely useless and does nothing to actually discuss the issues Canada faces. There are so many other "Myles Sandersons" out there in Canada, but only Myles was able to mass murder 11 people because his punishment was so lenient.

Truly, this country is doomed, because:

1. Wokies are willfully ignorant in their service to the corpo-government Liberal Orthodoxy and will follow any agenda to keep their side winning, including the lightest sentences for poor native criminals! Anything the system tells wokies, they believe completely and without question. Muh stolen land! Muh generational trauma! Wokies will make up any excuse and are unbreakable when it comes to their faith in being progressive. Despite all of the crime, suffering, poverty, misery and urban blight, they will ALWAYS champion things like "safe supply" because it is all part of the woke Liberal Orthodoxy they are sworn to uphold. Wokies all envision a future where liberal arts degree holding woke communists like Sean Orr are going to be the upper class management over a society full of addicts and working poor for them to shepherd.

2. Conservitards are just ignorant and stupid, they still believe they can vote the country out of the morass it is in because they are too dense to figure out they are playing inside the corpo-government Liberal Orthodoxy sandbox. Singing the national anthem at a hockey game is all the soma they need to feel like they still have a country. Conservitards are so sad and so defeated in Canada, all they can do is constantly play catch-up and just react to whatever the progressives do. Conservitards conserve nothing and only serve to soak up votes that could actually change the country if the blue team wasn't just a limp-dick carbon copy of the red team with a few 3-word slogans.

[blkgsr]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

I just voted at an Elections Canada office. You just have to remember the name of your Riding's Candidate and write it on a ballot (they have a list if you forget, but only for the riding the office is located in). You can vote in any location doesn't have to be your riding. In and out in 10 minutes.

Beats lining up for 2 hours any day.

awesome thanks, i fly out the night of the 17th so we'll look into this option

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

I just voted at an Elections Canada office. You just have to remember the name of your Riding's Candidate and write it on a ballot (they have a list if you forget, but only for the riding the office is located in). You can vote in any location doesn't have to be your riding. In and out in 10 minutes.

Beats lining up for 2 hours any day.

Thanks! My parents were just asking yesterday as they're off to China in a few days.

[supafamous]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WildRoseCou..._countries_on/

A couple weeks ago Reddit started pushing the WildRoseCountry reddit on me and I decided to read it from time to time to get some perspective. There are some moderate voices in there but there sure are some nuts - not quite tinfoil hats but definitely deeply uneducated conspiracy theorist types.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Correlation does not imply causation. I don't blame the Conservative gov'ts of Alberta and Sask for being the underlying cause of why the last decade have been a waste economically because they weren't entirely in control of their destiny - the correlation would say they are the reason per capita GDP has been flat for the last 10 years but it's not really a credible argument.

Implying that as soon as the Liberals took power that criminals decided to start committing more crimes is also not a credible argument. Cops don't get laid off right away, court budgets don't change right away, sentencing requirements don't change right away.

Point me to the underlying analysis of why the numbers moved the way they did - courts got fuller? did gov't relax laws? did funding get cut? When did those things happen and what are the actual correlations?

Don’t know what else to tell ya, the data is all there.

To further this point most will point to Bill C75 and C5

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/...jp/c75/p3.html

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/trans/...ublic%20safety.

Which are largely to do with changes to the bail system and what essentially sounds like, we don’t have resources so we release people back into the community.

The whole over representation of minority groups is frankly BS. If you’re a criminal, you’re a criminal. So restructuring the system to try and actively peruse charges based on being indigenous etc. is laughable.

Equality for all except for when you’re a criminal.

You asked for the data, I provided unbiased data, but in typical fashion it’s just “well there’s more to the story!!” Yea ok.

The bottom line is, Canada should be a better country than having rampant crime, homelessness, poverty, and addiction rule out major cities. And you can say “well the cons aren’t gonna do any better!!!!” Yea well, a decade under the liberals has made all those issues the worst they’ve ever been, so it’s pretty clear whatever’s happening now is not working.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

Honda is just your average brain-dead Conservitard. Expect nothing from conservatives because they do not think. They only know how to react.

Totally failed criminal justice system:

Maybe look into the name "Myles Sanderson" just as an appetizer, since the woke-as-fuck CBC is so completely useless and does nothing to actually discuss the issues Canada faces. There are so many other "Myles Sandersons" out there in Canada, but only Myles was able to mass murder 11 people because his punishment was so lenient.

Truly, this country is doomed, because:

1. Wokies are willfully ignorant in their service to the corpo-government Liberal Orthodoxy and will follow any agenda to keep their side winning, including the lightest sentences for poor native criminals! Anything the system tells wokies, they believe completely and without question. Muh stolen land! Muh generational trauma! Wokies will make up any excuse and are unbreakable when it comes to their faith in being progressive. Despite all of the crime, suffering, poverty, misery and urban blight, they will ALWAYS champion things like "safe supply" because it is all part of the woke Liberal Orthodoxy they are sworn to uphold. Wokies all envision a future where liberal arts degree holding woke communists like Sean Orr are going to be the upper class management over a society full of addicts and working poor for them to shepherd.

2. Conservitards are just ignorant and stupid, they still believe they can vote the country out of the morass it is in because they are too dense to figure out they are playing inside the corpo-government Liberal Orthodoxy sandbox. Singing the national anthem at a hockey game is all the soma they need to feel like they still have a country. Conservitards are so sad and so defeated in Canada, all they can do is constantly play catch-up and just react to whatever the progressives do. Conservitards conserve nothing and only serve to soak up votes that could actually change the country if the blue team wasn't just a limp-dick carbon copy of the red team with a few 3-word slogans.

I’m brain dead? Bro you’re private messaging me about conspiracy theories about the Juno’s bro

Go hit the pipe again.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The bottom line is, Canada should be a better country than having rampant crime, homelessness, poverty, and addiction rule out major cities. And you can say “well the cons aren’t gonna do any better!!!!” Yea well, a decade under the liberals has made all those issues the worst they’ve ever been, so it’s pretty clear whatever’s happening now is not working.

Don't forget auto thefts that have now reached epidemic levels because its so easy to export stolen cars out of Canada. If you found your car at a CN yard, good luck, the CBSA & CN won't help you.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I’m brain dead? Bro you’re private messaging me about conspiracy theories about the Juno’s bro

Go hit the pipe again.

LOOLLLL that tracks.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Don’t know what else to tell ya, the data is all there.

You asked for the data, I provided unbiased data, but in typical fashion it’s just “well there’s more to the story!!” Yea ok.

I'm not trying to be adversarial - as I said before, it's not a top 10 issue for me and I'm generally unaware of what's happening in the justice system b/c it's largely invisible to me. I don't know what I don't know. What I'm looking for isn't just raw numbers but root cause analysis - what specifically is happening in our system. I'm not even asking that it be you to educate me - that was a general question to the whole group.

Is the actual problem homelessness? Drug abuse? We're not rounding up people? We don't have enough judges (as Traum pointed out)? Organised crime taking more liberties? Borders got more open?

[Hondaracer]

Well outside of dealing with the US, which imo is a bit of a misnomer now for your average Canadian, “affordability” is the number one issue for voters.

And while crime and homelessness, addiction may not be your number one priority, I think it’s pretty obvious those issues are directly related to the affordability crisis. So they really go hand in hand.

What hope does anyone have who’s experiencing addiction or homelessness when there is realistically no hope your life will ever amount to anything. You overcome all odds, you beat addiction, you’ve turned your life around, and you landed the best job you could possible imagine given your life situation and circumstances

Now you can’t even afford shared accommodation or decent food? It’s pretty bleak.

My stance is the pessimistic one because I don’t think any party is ever going to address these issues in any sort of meaningful way. So if that’s the case, it’s better to take people who are running amok in society and place them away from the general populace for the greater good as opposed to this current arrangement with half ass integration back into the community and what really amounts to crossing your fingers that they won’t reoffend.

[Traum]

It's redneck Alberta at its best. Are you really surprised?

I know O&G has always been their crown jewel and bread earner, but when a certain portion of the population is so boxed in with their thinking that they can't see anything outside of that, the actions they take become really myopic.

Carney is well-known to have a environmentally conscious side, and from his campaign speeches in Alberta, I am very clearly hearing he wants to see Alberta's energy sector growing bigger thru renewable sources. We have reached a point for quite some time where solar power generation has become the cheapest way to produce electricty, and yet Alberta has continued to actively take measures to stifle growth and development of the alternative energy sector thru BS excuses while giving free passes to O&G companies precisely on the BS excuses that they use to constraint the alternative energy sector -- I'm looking at abandoned oil well clean ups, and how the Danielle Smith gov is using this BS excuse to hold back solar energy farm growths despite it not really being an issue at all.

Originally Posted by supafamous

https://www.reddit.com/r/WildRoseCou..._countries_on/

A couple weeks ago Reddit started pushing the WildRoseCountry reddit on me and I decided to read it from time to time to get some perspective. There are some moderate voices in there but there sure are some nuts - not quite tinfoil hats but definitely deeply uneducated conspiracy theorist types.

[AstulzerRZD]

What WTI/WCS price are the oil sands sustainable at?

Just checked WCS index and it's down from $72 last year to $48 today

[noclue]

Canadian O&G companies have strong, conservative balance sheets nowadays instead of running a massive deficit and hoping the balance will budget itself. If WTI goes below $55 and the USD weakens then they’ll start sweating.

That said if oil shits the bed like 2014 albertans will blame anyone else instead of themselves for not diversifying or introducing pst.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by supafamous

I'm not trying to be adversarial - as I said before, it's not a top 10 issue for me and I'm generally unaware of what's happening in the justice system b/c it's largely invisible to me. I don't know what I don't know. What I'm looking for isn't just raw numbers but root cause analysis - what specifically is happening in our system. I'm not even asking that it be you to educate me - that was a general question to the whole group.

Is the actual problem homelessness? Drug abuse? We're not rounding up people? We don't have enough judges (as Traum pointed out)? Organised crime taking more liberties? Borders got more open?

I think the sight of homelessness, hopelessness exhibited by drug addicts, and suspicious behaviour is definitely making people more uneasy these days. It's not contained to the downtown East Side anymore either - it's in pretty much in every community these days across the province.

Rounding up people and putting them in mandatory treatment centres would require billions of dollars and would likely result in legal challenges. There's no easy solution, despite what sloganeering politicians would want people to believe.

Here's the one thing that some conservatives have right - strong families and culture do have an impact on drug use and abuse.

[westopher]

Strong family values is a nice talking point from conservatives, but I think you'd be hard pressed to show they actually live that in reality over left leaning people.

[noclue]

Strong family values to hicks = prayers before meals/bedtime, pro-life, antivax, send the gays to bible conversion camps, dont send your kids to public school cause they learn science/critical thinking which is against your family values etc

Everyone has different interpretation of family values but I do get it that growing up with a single parent is tough on the kid

[Hondaracer]

Liberal family values in the last decade = your kid is hungry all the time

Truly the Canadian way

Again, nothing will destroy a family quicker than money trouble. There’s plenty of that to go around.

[supafamous]

https://axorc.substack.com/p/no-mark...nt-sell-off-us

There's a rumour that has gone around that Carney coordinated the bond sell off to squeeze the US which is not true (he doesn't have that kind of power) but this article does sum up the things he's been doing to manage Trump (the 51st state shit has completely dried up).

The stuff his resume says he should be good at - knowing economics, knowing the halls of power and being strong on diplomacy - are showing up well for him.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Here's the one thing that some conservatives have right - strong families and culture do have an impact on drug use and abuse.

Conservatives like to talk family values but they are, IMO, some of the worst at living it. Kid is gay? GTFO! Kid gets pregnant? GTFO! Kid rebels against religion? GTFO! Kid is trans? GTFO! Daughter wants to be treated equally with men? GTFO!

When Conservatives talk family values they often mean the traditional values they had in the past - the past that was racist, exclusionary, rigid, and which only focused on helping those who are like them.

I find Conservatives that talk the least about family values are the ones that live it the best - I've known a lot of Mormons and some Mennonites over the years and they are some of the very, very best people I've ever met. Kind, open hearted, supportive, inclusive, there for you etc - all the good shit about families they do.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by supafamous

The stuff his resume says he should be good at - knowing economics, knowing the halls of power and being strong on diplomacy - are showing up well for him.

I love it when people like you think carney is like the second coming of Christ.

He is supposedly good at knowing economics and diplomacy, yet other countries got a pause on tariffs while carney failed to get them paused in Canada. carney claimed he had a productive call with Trump and made progress. What progress has been made exactly? We have more tariffs today than we had when carny took office. Amazing mastery of negotiation there

Idk man, but carney's actions has not been matching his words so far...

[68style]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Liberal family values in the last decade = your kid is hungry all the time

Truly the Canadian way

Again, nothing will destroy a family quicker than money trouble. There’s plenty of that to go around.

I am beyond positive the earning power / average wage of a left leaning voter is higher than the average right leaning one sir. Education level is higher too.

Not saying you’re a dummy or low income, but I am positive any dive into those stats will corroborate this.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by 68style

I am beyond positive the earning power / average wage of a left leaning voter is higher than the average right leaning one sir. Education level is higher too.

Not saying you’re a dummy or low income, but I am positive any dive into those stats will corroborate this.

I will have to find the study I read last year from University of Toronto, but STEM graduates tended to vote conservative in Canada. Arts majors tended to vote liberal in Canada.

You can thank the Liberal government for the lousy job market for new grads: https://financialpost.com/fp-work/st...-market-crisis

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

I am beyond positive the earning power / average wage of a left leaning voter is higher than the average right leaning one sir. Education level is higher too.

Not saying you’re a dummy or low income, but I am positive any dive into those stats will corroborate this.

Kinda doubt that

Literally every single person I know in finance, engineer, STEM as the previous post said votes conservative.

I think you’d be very hard pressed to find anyone in Finance who is openly a liberal voter.

If you’re a double major in romantic languages living in a shared house, yea you vote liberal lol

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Kinda doubt that

Literally every single person I know in finance, engineer, STEM as the previous post said votes conservative.

I think you’d be very hard pressed to find anyone in Finance who is openly a liberal voter.

What degree did Freeland have again?

"Vibecession"

[supafamous]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...61379423000707

We develop four main conclusions. First, we find strong support for an increasing education cleavage, previously documented cross-nationally (Gethin et al., 2022; Houtman et al., 2009; Kitschelt 1994; Piketty 2020; Simon 2021; Stubager 2010). This has led to a divergence between the effect that education and income have on party voting. People with high incomes continue to support the right while people with higher levels of education have shifted to the left.

Second, disaggregating the left bloc between the Liberal Party and NDP, yields substantively different results for Canada than what Gethin et al. (2022) found when combining both in a left bloc. Both higher income and degree holders are much more likely to vote for the Liberals, whereas the NDP is increasingly attracting lower income, and to a lesser extent, higher educated voters.

Third, like Abou-Chadi and Hix, 2021, we find evidence that educated voters who vote for the left support redistribution. However, it is NDP voters that drive this support, as redistributive degree holders are more likely to vote NDP, but the same does not hold for the Liberals.

Lastly, despite being a majoritarian system, we find that the left/right bloc framework is insufficient in explaining changing class cleavages. Although we find that Canada largely fits the mould of a multi-elite party system, it differs substantively in composition from this framework, as disentangling the NDP from the Liberals, reveals that the characterization holds well for the Liberals and right bloc, but not for the NDP, which is the “half,” in Canada's unique “two-and-a-half” party system (Johnston 2017). This finding importantly uncovers changing patterns of support within the left/right bloc, beyond those associated with green and radical right parties outlined by Abou-Chadi and Hix, which has ramifications for understanding the dynamics of multiparty competition amidst changing political cleavages.

In my 2 min Googling I couldn't find specifics but this study does look into it and sorta suggests that everyone is both right and wrong - educated people tend to vote more left and higher earners tend to vote more right.

This does match all the data I've seen before has always said that the more education you have the more you'll vote left and the more money you have the more you'll vote right BUT poor + uneducated tend to vote right, rich + educated tend to vote left so it's not one dimensional.

I'd bet money that the difference is not really material if you take averages (the rich right and the poor right wash out) but the median income is higher on the left.