Canadian politics thread

[welfare]

So with this unprecedented level of unemployment that Canada is now reaching, can someone explain the logic behind importing an unprecedented level of migrants?
Our minister of immigration doesn't really go on to explain it very thoroughly.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6949767/i...avirus-canada/

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by welfare

So with this unprecedented level of unemployment that Canada is now reaching, can someone explain the logic behind importing an unprecedented level of migrants?
Our minister of immigration doesn't really go on to explain it very thoroughly.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6949767/i...avirus-canada/

Because immigrants are the ones making sure businesses are open right now. Go to any fast food place or grocery store and you will see it's full of hard-working immigrants. Just because a Canadian is unemployed does not mean they want to work at Tim Hortons. I know a number of business owners who employ hundreds of workers and they rely on immigrants to keep their business open. The only reason our gas station is open right now is because of 3 students from India Who are working their asses off. A couple of them working 2 jobs. If you are unemployed right now and can't find a job the problem is probably you.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Manic!

If you are unemployed right now and can't find a job the problem is probably you.

Tell that to the millions of Canadians on ei right now.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by welfare

Tell that to the millions of people on ei right now.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/d/c...ice/search/csr

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/d/g...bor/search/lab

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/d/f...ity/search/fbh

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/d/security/search/sec

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/d/r...ale/search/ret

If you can't get a job right now it's your own fault.

[Hehe]

Finding A job vs. THE job are very different thing.

Sure, a person with a PhD in science can apply for a janitor position, but that's an awful waste of human resources.

The problem Canada, and pretty much many many countries in the world is that very problem. People with or without qualification are fighting for the very limited positions available. And many of them would be consider underemployed, as they have the ability to do so much more.

And a person goes from making 10k a month to 4k.... it might sounds nothing... just a temporary thing. But when you have MILLIONS of people like that, the economy is in huge shit. That's why I think anyone who's expecting a V-shaped recovery is in lunacy.

[will068]

Originally Posted by welfare

So with this unprecedented level of unemployment that Canada is now reaching, can someone explain the logic behind importing an unprecedented level of migrants?
Our minister of immigration doesn't really go on to explain it very thoroughly.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6949767/i...avirus-canada/

There has been a massive PR campaign via mainstream media for unfettered immigration in Western Nations in the last few years. This wasn't done in the 90's or beforehand. So why recently ?

Because of the low birthrates. This is inter-generational issue that will happen in the next 10 - 20 years.

This demographic headwind is a major issue in Western Nations. Canada is in competition with other countries to add bodies - but the correct bodies to boost its economy. Highest chances of that are people who are wealthy immigrants and the educated who have skills that would benefit the Canadian Economy.

Folks who would create
- jobs
- resources
- add to the GDP

If Canada fails to attract the correct people, it's game over for us. This is the long game that Western Nations are doing.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by will068

There has been a massive PR campaign via mainstream media for unfettered immigration in Western Nations in the last few years. This wasn't done in the 90's or beforehand. So why recently ?

Because of the low birthrates. This is inter-generational issue that will happen in the next 10 - 20 years.

This demographic headwind is a major issue in Western Nations. Canada is in competition with other countries to add bodies - but the correct bodies to boost its economy. Highest chances of that are people who are wealthy immigrants and the educated who have skills that would benefit the Canadian Economy.

Folks who would create
- jobs
- resources
- add to the GDP

If Canada fails to attract the correct people, it's game over for us. This is the long game that Western Nations are doing.

I realize the principle behind immigration. And while it can be debated why Canada, with a close birthrate to the US, takes in over three times the number of migrants, or the effects our merit based system has on removing human capital from countries where it's sorely needed, that wasn't really the point.

why is immigration needed while unemployment is reaching record highs in canada? Especially immigration at record numbers?
Does that seem logical? What is the rush?

[westopher]

Unemployment was at record lows before the pandemic, although you and I will both agree that plenty of people in the employed category are underemployed (thats a global issue I'd put forward though, and also probably the biggest issue that the millennial/gen Z people will face)they are basing these immigration policies on the speculation that this unemployment spike will just be a spike.

[welfare]

Again though, what's the rush? Wouldn't it be prudent to wait and see first? This pandemic could,and likely will, take years to recover from economically. And that's not for a lack of people.
It would seem that this government will be importing more of the precise problem that we're trying to remedy; an excess of people with a lack of jobs.

[westopher]

I certainly think they are focusing on both. I agree, promoting immigration shouldn't be a priority, but I also don't think it is as high on their list as people who are against it are trying to paint the picture that it is. Everything has an angle.
There are job shortages in certain sectors, but there are also shortages of workers in many sectors. Look at the fish processing on the east coast. No one wants to do it, and as a result Canada will be losing out on a fairly substantial contributor to our GDP. What's even worse, in my eyes, is the needless wasted food as a result, which will drive up prices of seafood in a damaged economy. I know it's not massive, and I'm not trying to say that it is, but thats just one example, and there are more.
More expensive food, in a poorer country is a big fucking problem in my eyes.

[will068]

Originally Posted by welfare

why is immigration needed while unemployment is reaching record highs in canada? Especially immigration at record numbers?
Does that seem logical? What is the rush?

My personal opinion, it's cheaper labour.

You want that person with a Masters or PHD in a STEM field, but you can pay that person a much lesser salary than their peers. Why not ?

Corporations that setup shop here like that.

That's the reason why MSFT opened up shop here in Vancouver. Companies in the states are limited to how many H-1B visas they can grant to potential immigrant employees. Being in tech for 14 years for a $40B multinational. A few years back, we terminated our local QA head and a number of QA personnel. We replaced them with contract workers who are fresh off the boat Indians.

Instead of the invisible hand of the free market doing what it needs to do (e.g. less supply, more demand, more $$ with the demand), we have ample supply of resources again and corporations do not have spend much $$.

I remember reading articles a while back when McDonald's could not get enough employees to work at their Ft. McMurray Branches. Simple resolution for that is raise the wage until you attract the talent. However, McDonald's isn't willing to do that. The alternative that they did, hire a bunch of fresh off the boat immigrants.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by westopher

I certainly think they are focusing on both. I agree, promoting immigration shouldn't be a priority, but I also don't think it is as high on their list as people who are against it are trying to paint the picture that it is. Everything has an angle.
There are job shortages in certain sectors, but there are also shortages of workers in many sectors. Look at the fish processing on the east coast. No one wants to do it, and as a result Canada will be losing out on a fairly substantial contributor to our GDP. What's even worse, in my eyes, is the needless wasted food as a result, which will drive up prices of seafood in a damaged economy. I know it's not massive, and I'm not trying to say that it is, but thats just one example, and there are more.
More expensive food, in a poorer country is a big fucking problem in my eyes.

Nobody wanted to do them when they had options.
A lot of businesses have closed their doors for good. That's not a spike. With cerb ending in October, and a lower demand for workers, the options people have will be few.
As you said previously, these immigration figures were drawn up when unemployment was at record lows. Now that we're 180 out from those projections, it just doesn't make any sense to me that those figures wouldn't be reconsidered. Strictly from an economic standpoint.

Originally Posted by will068

My personal opinion, it's cheaper labour.

You want that person with a Masters or PHD in a STEM field, but you can pay that person a much lesser salary than their peers. Why not ?

Corporations that setup shop here like that.

That's the reason why MSFT opened up shop here in Vancouver. Companies in the states are limited to how many H-1B visas they can grant to potential immigrant employees. Being in tech for 14 years for a $40B multinational. A few years back, we terminated our local QA head and a number of QA personnel. We replaced them with contract workers who are fresh off the boat Indians.

Instead of the invisible hand of the free market doing what it needs to do (e.g. less supply, more demand, more $$ with the demand), we have ample supply of resources again and corporations do not have spend much $$.

I remember reading articles a while back when McDonald's could not get enough employees to work at their Ft. McMurray Branches. Simple resolution for that is raise the wage until you attract the talent. However, McDonald's isn't willing to do that. The alternative that they did, hire a bunch of fresh off the boat immigrants.

And that's all fine and dandy (for all intents and purposes) when the demand for work is high and supply of workers is low. But clearly, we aren't in Kansas anymore.
Importing cheaper labor while the supply here is already at record high, i just can't see that as much other than sidelining Canadians in dire need.
these decisions are exactly what determine an economic rebound.

[will068]

Originally Posted by welfare

Nobody wanted to do them when they had options.
A lot of businesses have closed their doors for good. That's not a spike. With cerb ending in October, and a lower demand for workers, the options people have will be few.
As you said previously, these immigration figures were drawn up when unemployment was at record lows. Now that we're 180 out from those projections, it just doesn't make any sense to me that those figures wouldn't be reconsidered. Strictly from an economic standpoint.



And that's all fine and dandy (for all intents and purposes) when the demand for work is high and supply of workers is low. But clearly, we aren't in Kansas anymore.
Importing cheaper labor while the supply here is already at record high, i just can't see that as much other than sidelining Canadians in dire need.
these decisions are exactly what determine an economic rebound.

Since cheap labour favours multi national corps, I don't think this trend will change under the Libs or Cons any time soon. Does the NDP have the rhetoric with regard to this scenario ?

[welfare]

Originally Posted by will068

Since cheap labour favours multi national corps, I don't think this trend will change under the Libs or Cons any time soon. Does the NDP have the rhetoric with regard to this scenario ?

I know who it favors.
Even businesses that are open or now reopening, most can't operate at full capacity due to health guidelines for distancing. There's no telling which businesses will be able to sustain that. Or shutting down due to a second wave.
Do you think it's a good idea at this time? With the uncertainty of employment the country faces?
Your personal opinion.

[will068]

Originally Posted by welfare

I know who it favors.
Even businesses that are open or now reopening, most can't operate at full capacity due to health guidelines for distancing. There's no telling which businesses will be able to sustain that. Or shutting down due to a second wave.
Do you think it's a good idea at this time? With the uncertainty of employment the country faces?
Your personal opinion.

For me, I am good for allowing businesses to open with enforeable health guidelines (wearing masks, taking temperature , social distancing) in this environment. However, government aid should not be removed at this time - especially if small businesses do not want to open.

I'm more of a universal basic income type of guy. No cerb qualification scenario. Just give $ straight to the pockets of every adult citizen on a regular basis. This can act as a safety net for our society. Also, capitalism that doesn't start at $0.

[welfare]

Just to clarify, i was asking your personal thoughts on the decision to maintain Canada's highest ever level of migration, not the reopening of businesses or the measures they are being required to adhere to.

I'll stop beating this dead horse now though. Doesn't appear that anyone is too concerned with it for some odd reason.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by welfare

J. Doesn't appear that anyone is too concerned with it for some odd reason.

Maybe because many Canadans come from imagrant families, have imagrants in there family or have friends/co workers that come from imagrant families.

[vitaminG]

Originally Posted by Manic!

. The only reason our gas station is open right now is because of 3 students from India Who are working their asses off. A couple of them working 2 jobs. If you are unemployed right now and can't find a job the problem is probably you.

Students on study permits aren't immigrants (learn to spell the fucking word), they're only allowed 20 hours per week. Unethical business allow them to work longer hours and take advantage of the system. They're being exploited by paying huge sums to attend bogus colleges and then they work at shady gas stations that allow them to work over their allotted 20 hours.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by vitaminG

Students on study permits aren't immigrants (learn to spell the fucking word), they're only allowed 20 hours per week. Unethical business allow them to work longer hours and take advantage of the system. They're being exploited by paying huge sums to attend bogus colleges and then they work at shady gas stations that allow them to work over their allotted 20 hours.

All 3 are going to VIU and one just got his post-graduate work permit.

Also this: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...-covid-19.html

[welfare]

During the great depression, Canada's immigration numbers fell to below one tenth what they were prior.
This obviously isn't the great depression. But it is the only comparison we have to the figures we are seeing.and i am weary of where we'll be this time next year..

[Bouncing Bettys]

Twitter

What interesting times we live in.

*Edit - originally the story was just reporting on the NDP seeking funds, hence the welfare comment from JJ. The NDP seeking help is interesting, but nothing compared to the corporate-backed Libs and Cons. I haven't seen a comment from Maxime Bernier, but I suspect he wouldn't approve, as he is against corporate bailouts and such.

[welfare]

Our government spending as responsibly as ever, I see.
https://nationalpost.com/news/no-nee...eign-residents

Until last Thursday, they had to email Employment and Social Development Canada an image of their valid work or work/study permit, or confirmation they had applied to renew an expired one.

But a memo sent to Employment and Social Development Canada officials handling CERB applications said that condition is waived “effective immediately” and agents “are only required to verbally obtain work permit details.”

The directive applies to everyone who claims to meet the programs other requirements and has a “900-series” social insurance number — people ranging from students to refugee claimants to temporary foreign workers and executives transferred from other countries. None are Canadian citizens or permanent residents.

One source familiar with the system said people with valid permits would typically email proof within a few minutes, barely slowing the process. But now there is no way for staff to verify whether someone is in the country legally, the person said.

And if an applicant does receive the $2,000-a-month payments inappropriately and then leaves Canada, it would be virtually impossible to recover the money, said the source, who’s not authorized to discuss internal matters and asked not to be named.

“There is a big, big opening for fraud left, right and centre.”

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by welfare

Our government spending as responsibly as ever, I see.
https://nationalpost.com/news/no-nee...eign-residents

Yes because tons of people are going to move to Canada collect 2k and leave.

[welfare]

I wonder how much it would cost to buy a SIN number. Or 20. Or 100. Why not make it 1000. No one's counting anyways.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sto...raud-1.5232037

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by welfare

I wonder how much it would cost to buy a SIN number. Or 20. Or 100. Why not make it 1000. No one's counting anyways.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sto...raud-1.5232037

Data hacks happen all the time. Are you new to the internet? It's businesses cutting corners when it comes to security that's causing the problem. I guess we need more goverment regulation on how companies handle our data.