Canadian politics thread

[mikemhg]

^As underscore and I have said here, the judges can impose the sentence necessary, removing the mandatory minimum simply eliminates the automatic requirement of sentencing.

Every case has a backstory, this allows that backstory to be taken into account.

I don't know Honda, there is a litany of articles and studies that discuss how mandatory minimums are cruel and ineffective. I know you hate "Trudope", I think you're allowing that lens to cloud your judgement here.

If judges are too lenient, well that's another story that we can discuss. Let's not be obtuse here either, there will be modifications to the bill, just as there will be to the marijuana legalization bill.

You start big, and make modifications thereafter.

Overall, this is a great move forward IMHO, one that you're seeing throughout the US as well (although not fast enough in my opinion).

[stewie]

^ you mentioned that every case has a backstory which is true. Does that backstory apply when it involves you and your family though? At what point does one go from a bleesing heart to a cold hearted bastard with no care for the feelings of someone.

I'll use this as an example

Robbery with a firearm
Paragraph 344(1)(a.1): MMP of 4 years

You own a small mom n pop style store. Some random person comes in with a illegally obtained firearm that was smuggled in from the states and points it at you or one of your family members, empties the register, runs out and is caught 20 minutes later.
I don't know about some of you guys but if I was the owner of the store I'd hope that person spends the rest of his life behind prison bars. There should be no leniency saying he made a mistake, was depressed about his wife leaving him and he'll promise to never do it again. Fuck. That.
Make punishments harder to deter people from comitting a crime.
I believe rehabilitation works, but only to a certain extent. For those who go out of their way to commit a crime such as the example I used, I consider them a lost cause.

[westopher]

Regardless of mandatory minimums that person isn’t getting anywhere close to life behind bars.
While I totally agree that they should be getting more than that 4 year minimum sentence for armed robbery, the people we have in place to uphold the laws (judges) should be able to be trusted to give the right sentence for the crime. I don’t think there would be many out there that will be giving less than that for violent, threatening crimes. I could definitely be wrong about that unfortunately, and I don’t say it with a ton of confidence. That said, I’m not a lawyer, or judge, so my opinion on the laws aren’t based on anything other than emotion.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by stewie

^ you mentioned that every case has a backstory which is true. Does that backstory apply when it involves you and your family though? At what point does one go from a bleesing heart to a cold hearted bastard with no care for the feelings of someone.

I'll use this as an example


You own a small mom n pop style store. Some random person comes in with a illegally obtained firearm that was smuggled in from the states and points it at you or one of your family members, empties the register, runs out and is caught 20 minutes later.
I don't know about some of you guys but if I was the owner of the store I'd hope that person spends the rest of his life behind prison bars. There should be no leniency saying he made a mistake, was depressed about his wife leaving him and he'll promise to never do it again. Fuck. That.
Make punishments harder to deter people from comitting a crime.
I believe rehabilitation works, but only to a certain extent. For those who go out of their way to commit a crime such as the example I used, I consider them a lost cause.

30 years of running a mom and pop store and we have never had a person point an illegal gun at any one working. Know multiple other store owners and neither have they. Did have a legal gun owner shoot and kill his wife with a hand gun while she was pumping gas with her 14 year old daughter.

A stolen gun from the US costs around $3000. I don't think a person who can afford a $300 gun is going to be robbing a store for a couple of hundred dollars at most.

Most robberies at gas stations happen with a knife.

[Hondaracer]

Until judges are elected any notion of a judge handing down a punishment that equals the crime is a pipe dream imo.

Mike, in your example of everyone that has a story/past let me lay out an example that is applicable to these reforms

A person with minor criminal offences who is already prohibited from owning a firearm is caught with a handgun after a B&E etc. Ok, first strike, spend a month or whatever in pre-trial and you’re out again.

That same person is now found in a home invasion, again carrying an illegal, unregistered handgun on top of the previous restrictions and this is the second time that person is caught carrying around a handgun in violent crime

That person does not deserve a minimum sentence? Really?..

There is no fucking way you can say you want to get tougher on gun crime as a country then enact this legislation and expect judges to come down harder on people.

If you’re caught twice with an illegal handgun, you are a menace to society. You are a dangerous person who is endangering the public, period. Regardless of whether you’ve ever discharged the firearm, the fact you continue to have it on your person says you have no regard for other people’s lives.

How many people in this type or scenario are ever going to be reformed? You’re a felon with gun crimes under your belt. Your life is over. Crime is your life.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by Manic!

30 years of running a mom and pop store and we have never had a person point an illegal gun at any one working. Know multiple other store owners and neither have they. Did have a legal gun owner shoot and kill his wife with a hand gun while she was pumping gas with her 14 year old daughter.

A stolen gun from the US costs around $3000. I don't think a person who can afford a $300 gun is going to be robbing a store for a couple of hundred dollars at most.

Most robberies at gas stations happen with a knife.

My parents have lived beside a small corner store since 1983 in Burnaby. The store has been robbed more times than I can count on fingers from just the time when I was 12-15 years old.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by stewie

My parents have lived beside a small corner store since 1983 in Burnaby. The store has been robbed more times than I can count on fingers from just the time when I was 12-15 years old.

With an illegal gun?

[stewie]

Originally Posted by Manic!

With an illegal gun?

Possibly. I never went and asked if it was a white/black/asian guy or if he had a gun or not and if the cops ever caught the guy and if so was he ever able to find out if the gun was stolen or not. I don't pry into others problems.

Just because your store hasn't been robbed at gun point doesn't mean it won't happen. But one day, if it does, how will you feel knowing the person basically got a slap on their wrist and are back living in your city, probably within a 5-10km radius. This is a person you'll probably cross paths with again unknowingly at a grocery store, a mall, driving past them during the day.

I don't smoke but I know they arent cheap. How many packs/cartons of smokes does it take for a stolen 300$ gun to become profitable?

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by stewie

Possibly. I never went and asked if it was a white/black/asian guy or if he had a gun or not and if the cops ever caught the guy and if so was he ever able to find out if the gun was stolen or not. I don't pry into others problems.

Just because your store hasn't been robbed at gun point doesn't mean it won't happen. But one day, if it does, how will you feel knowing the person basically got a slap on their wrist and are back living in your city, probably within a 5-10km radius. This is a person you'll probably cross paths with again unknowingly at a grocery store, a mall, driving past them during the day.

I don't smoke but I know they arent cheap. How many packs/cartons of smokes does it take for a stolen 300$ gun to become profitable?

$3000 gun not $300. for all you know that store could have been robbed by a butter knife.

We have been robbed. twice they smashed a window to grab cans of tobacco at night and one time the smashed a window in my truck and stole over 8k in cigarettes after I came back from Costco. This had happened to multiple people. They where caught doing the same thing in Victoria. good thing for insurance. No guns used.

The guy who killed his wife with a legal gun in 2002 when I was working is now out. Last year did come to the store to buy gas.

As someone who follows the c-store industry closely I can tell you armed robberies with a gun are not even close to common. That's something that happens in the US because guns are dirt cheap.

[stewie]

My apologies. 3000$ as it's also mentioned in a CBC article a few years ago https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5126228
8k in cigarettes in one Smash n' grab. Not only is the gun fully paid for, it's now turned a profit. Hell, more people should be commiting these crimes now knowing their punishment won't be as bad. It's like Christmas day for criminals.

The store owner may have been robbed with a plastic fork for all I know. Or he could've had his windows smashed in at 2am by a guy with a gun in his pocket as a last case emergency get away.

If armed robberies aren't as close to common as people think and its a US thing. Then do we really need all this extra bullshit gun bans? All it is is our pm doing a horrible job and doing anything he can to take eyes off all his fuck ups. Covid plan the shits? Let's put guns back in the spot light!

I've seen this pop up several times today on my news feed and each time I see it I laugh.




When you saw that guy fill up with gas did you make sure you put a smile on and have him a friendly wave?

I'm a legal law abiding canadian who is having my rights stripped away from me just so the crybaby bleeding heart snowflakes of this country can go to bed thinking they're now safer. It disgusts me.
The two of us will never see eye to eye on any of this so I'll just do the two of us a favor and call it quits.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by stewie

If armed robberies aren't as close to common as people think and its a US thing. Then do we really need all this extra bullshit gun bans? All it is is our pm doing a horrible job and doing anything he can to take eyes off all his fuck ups. Covid plan the shits? Let's put guns back in the spot light!

I'm a legal law abiding canadian who is having my rights stripped away from me just so the crybaby bleeding heart snowflakes of this country can go to bed thinking they're now safer. It disgusts me.

I am not a gun person, but in regards to Trudeau's assault-style gun ban, the first thing it made me thought of is -- when will this shitface suddenly wake up one beautiful day, and decides that 600hp is too much power in a car, and proceeds to blanket ban these 600hp cars just because "high powered vehicles kill"?

And then there is the BS municipal handgun bans that CoV and Surrey are trying to follow up on.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by stewie

My apologies. 3000$ as it's also mentioned in a CBC article a few years ago https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5126228
8k in cigarettes in one Smash n' grab. Not only is the gun fully paid for, it's now turned a profit. Hell, more people should be commiting these crimes now knowing their punishment won't be as bad. It's like Christmas day for criminals.

The store owner may have been robbed with a plastic fork for all I know. Or he could've had his windows smashed in at 2am by a guy with a gun in his pocket as a last case emergency get away.

If armed robberies aren't as close to common as people think and its a US thing. Then do we really need all this extra bullshit gun bans? All it is is our pm doing a horrible job and doing anything he can to take eyes off all his fuck ups. Covid plan the shits? Let's put guns back in the spot light!

I've seen this pop up several times today on my news feed and each time I see it I laugh.




When you saw that guy fill up with gas did you make sure you put a smile on and have him a friendly wave?

I'm a legal law abiding canadian who is having my rights stripped away from me just so the crybaby bleeding heart snowflakes of this country can go to bed thinking they're now safer. It disgusts me.
The two of us will never see eye to eye on any of this so I'll just do the two of us a favor and call it quits.

They did not use a gun to steal 8k worth of smokes. they did not need to. A so-called law-abiding Canadian used a handgun to kill his wife 20 feet from me.

Originally Posted by Traum

I am not a gun person, but in regards to Trudeau's assault-style gun ban, the first thing it made me thought of is -- when will this shitface suddenly wake up one beautiful day, and decides that 600hp is too much power in a car, and proceeds to blanket ban these 600hp cars just because "high powered vehicles kill"?

And then there is the BS municipal handgun bans that CoV and Surrey are trying to follow up on.

after they ban 600hp cars they are going to ban the penis. We have zero laws regulating HP but we do have laws regulating guns. After the cons ban abortions, what other medical surgeries will they ban after that?

[Traum]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56163220

Canada's parliament declares China's treatment of Uighurs 'genocide'

The motion - which passed 266 to 0 - was supported by all opposition parties and a handful of lawmakers from the governing Liberal Party.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and most members of his cabinet abstained.

Just one member of his cabinet, Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau, appeared in parliament for the vote. Speaking in the House of Commons, Mr Garneau said he had abstained "on behalf of the government of Canada".

The motion makes Canada just the second country after the United States to recognise China's actions as genocide.

In typical Canadian fashion, the motion is more symbolic than anything else, since it doesn't layout any concrete next steps. Still, even when the motion is as symbolic and toothless as this, that piece of gutless Turd-eau has still chosen to abstain from the vote. It really makes me wonder what kind of message Turd-eau is sending as the Canadaian Prime Minister. Does he think that by abstaining and asking his cabinet to abstain as well, he will stay on the good side with China and Xi? Has he forgotten that Communist China is still arbitrarily detaining 2 of our citizens while subjecting them to severe human rights violations as well as violations to international law? WTF is this piece of shit so afraid of?

[Manic!]

What a waste of money. I bet the company will fold in less than 6 months with the money gone.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-p...lose-1.5319436

TORONTO -- Ontario Premier Doug Ford defended his government’s decision to invest $2.5 million in wearable contact tracing technology that will beep or buzz to notify users if they are too close to another person, saying that the deal should yield a “good return on investment.”

Last week, the Progressive Conservative government issued a news release saying that it will be providing money from the Ontario Together Fund to a technology company in order to create wearable tracing technology for people who work or spend time in facilities where the COVID Alert app can’t be accessed.

The bracelet, called TraceSCAN, would be used in places such as airlines, schools, construction sites and long-term care homes.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Traum

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56163220

In typical Canadian fashion, the motion is more symbolic than anything else, since it doesn't layout any concrete next steps. Still, even when the motion is as symbolic and toothless as this, that piece of gutless Turd-eau has still chosen to abstain from the vote. It really makes me wonder what kind of message Turd-eau is sending as the Canadaian Prime Minister. Does he think that by abstaining and asking his cabinet to abstain as well, he will stay on the good side with China and Xi? Has he forgotten that Communist China is still arbitrarily detaining 2 of our citizens while subjecting them to severe human rights violations as well as violations to international law? WTF is this piece of shit so afraid of?

No one cares Traum

So just vote for the Conservatives already when the inevitable election call is made. Better yet, go to the states, get your citizenship and vote for Trump in 2024. If you go now you might be able to make it in time.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

No one cares Traum

When people say stuff like that, unfortunately it just shows their ignorance on the subject. It's no different than how people initially though COVID wouldn't amount to much of a thing, and that masks aren't really necessary. And look where we're at now?

I've said it before and I will say it again -- look at where Australia is, and how much of their government and citizens/residents have been infiltrated by Communist China. Fortunately, they are starting to wake up now. We don't want Canada to end up like that.

So just vote for the Conservatives already when the inevitable election call is made. Better yet, go to the states, get your citizenship and vote for Trump in 2024. If you go now you might be able to make it in time.

If you think this has anything to do with Trump, you're sorely mistaken. For all the idiocy that Trudeau has done, that is already reason enough to vote him out.

p.s. If you are Michael Korvig or Michael Spavor's family, you would not be having that "no one cares" attitude, CB. Or rather, it would be quite a different "no one cares" attitude that would be felt.

[sonick]

Smdh. Happy that the federal NDP's twitter account getting ratio'd for posting this bush league garbage:

Twitter

[westopher]

Looks like NDPs social media guy will be looking for a new job tomorrow.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Traum

p.s. If you are Michael Korvig or Michael Spavor's family, you would not be having that "no one cares" attitude, CB. Or rather, it would be quite a different "no one cares" attitude that would be felt.

If I were part of one of the 2 Michaels' family I'd be absolutely livid at A'tool's (hey look I can make a lame pun too) Conservatives for pushing ahead with a totally meaningless gesture in order to "stick it to the Liberal Government"

Face it, people voted for Trudeau twice and will likely do so again.

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

No one cares Traum

So just vote for the Conservatives already when the inevitable election call is made. Better yet, go to the states, get your citizenship and vote for Trump in 2024. If you go now you might be able to make it in time.

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

If I were part of one of the 2 Michaels' family I'd be absolutely livid at A'tool's (hey look I can make a lame pun too) Conservatives for pushing ahead with a totally meaningless gesture in order to "stick it to the Liberal Government"

Face it, people voted for Trudeau twice and will likely do so again.

So let me get this straight. O'Toole is trying to get the government of Canada to at least discuss what's happening in China. The 'champion' of human rights, feminist PM abstains from voting and tells his entire cabinet to do so as well. He doesn't show up to abstain, he literally won't even sit on Zoom in his PJ's at home to abstain. He openly told the Canadian public that he doesn't care about China's actions against their own people or Canadian hostages. He's done fuck all to get Kovrig and Spavor released. And you think the families of the men being held as political prisoners for almost three years are going to be livid at O'Toole for, even if symbolically at this point, holding China's feet to the fire?! Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

Genocide is an important issue, Canadians have gone to war for such things. You say "no one cares", speak for your ignorant self. This also has nothing to do with Trump or the United States. Since you care so little about the happenings and political state in Canada maybe it's you that should GTFO and move south and really stick it to those that have some pride in, and concern for, the direction of our country

Painful ignorance and stupidity on public display.

[westopher]

It’s pretty reasonable that the libs made that decision with the two Michael’s in mind. China probably isn’t going to be super keen to negotiate the release of political prisoners with a country that is condemning them on the world stage. I agree with the condemnation of the Chinese government, but there’s more to it than OOO TURDEU DUMB.

[GGnoRE]

A valid argument can be made that Trudeau speaking out explicitly against China will only make it harder for China to release the Canadian hostages. China is all about saving "face" and there is no way in hell that they are going to bend to our toothless criticism. Realistically, our only path is to plead Biden/US to work something out with China on the Huawei case unless we want to get into hostage diplomacy with China ourselves.

I have no idea why CivicBlues is turning this into a political party debate and even bringing Trump into this... The motion passed 266-0 and had support across all opposition parties including most Liberal MPs who participated. Traum was criticizing the Trudeau administration for abstaining and not the entire Liberal party.

[CivicBlues]

I brought up Trump because Traum is constantly bringing China up in the Biden thread in a similar vein in order to rationalize his support for Trump and his "tough on China" stance as if he was a one issue voter.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

So let me get this straight. O'Toole is trying to get the government of Canada to at least discuss what's happening in China. The 'champion' of human rights, feminist PM abstains from voting and tells his entire cabinet to do so as well. He doesn't show up to abstain, he literally won't even sit on Zoom in his PJ's at home to abstain. He openly told the Canadian public that he doesn't care about China's actions against their own people or Canadian hostages. He's done fuck all to get Kovrig and Spavor released. And you think the families of the men being held as political prisoners for almost three years are going to be livid at O'Toole for, even if symbolically at this point, holding China's feet to the fire?! Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

Not going to repeat again but Westopher and Ggnore have pretty much summed up why your stance is the one that can be considered ignorant in the face of Realpolitik.

[Traum]

GGnoRE and Westopher's argument can certainly be made, and some people will think that way. But it isn't something I'd agree with.

Instead, I would say that when the entire parliament passed the motion with a 266-0 vote, it doesn't really whether Trudeau did what he did, or whether he casted a vote in support or against the motion. China is still going to paint Canada with a broad stroke with the impression that Canada has caused them to "lose face" with the genocide accusation, and that is exactly what they did -- their foreign ministry spokesperson came back criticizing Canada for the motion with some pretty harsh words of their own, typical of their idiotic "wolf warrior" diplomacy style.

So what I am seeing is -- Trudeau and his cabinet abstaining from the vote earned no good grace from China, but it showed Canadians that he is a spineless "leader" who is afraid to stand up for the very same ideals that he champions (in words only).

Originally Posted by GGnoRE

A valid argument can be made that Trudeau speaking out explicitly against China will only make it harder for China to release the Canadian hostages. China is all about saving "face" and there is no way in hell that they are going to bend to our toothless criticism. Realistically, our only path is to plead Biden/US to work something out with China on the Huawei case unless we want to get into hostage diplomacy with China ourselves.