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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
What makes you think a Conservative government is going to make the corner of Commercial and Venables better? What policy have they put forward that makes you think that would change under PP? You’re saying they’re homeless and that’s their plight but Conservative governments have a proven history of cutting assistance programs and defunding initiatives that help disadvantaged people. You don’t make any sense.
You’re always conflating responsibilities at various levels of government. That intersection is 100% a BC government issue. There’s not one politician in Ottawa in any party that gives a fuck about East Van.
Canada’s carbon-tax history began in March 2007, when Alberta became North America’s first jurisdiction to legislate greenhouse gas reductions from large industrial emitters via a carbon levy. The following month, B.C. joined forces with five U.S. states in the Western Climate Initiative—a market-based group aiming to tackle climate change. Ontario and Quebec have since signed on too. In May 2008, Conservative federal environment minister John Baird called carbon trading a “key part” of the government’s emissions plan targeting oil and gas producers and coal-fired power plants. In July of that year, B.C. became the first province to implement a carbon tax—with proceeds going back to taxpayers.
In the 2008 federal election, Conservative and Liberal leaders both included carbon pricing in their platforms. The Conservative government of Stephen Harper won a minority mandate with a campaign that pledged to “develop and implement a North America-wide cap-and-trade system for greenhouse gases and air pollution, with implementation to occur between 2012 and 2015.” Following the election, Conservative environment minister Jim Prentice began to explore a national carbon market, “something that has never been done before in this country,” he said. That plan was dropped when the Conservatives won a majority government in 2011.
Fast-forward to 2016 and by the time Liberal Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced plans for a national carbon pricing plan, several provinces—excluding, most notably, Saskatchewan—already had one in the works.
Today is a good day to revisit history a bit to understand where and how the carbon tax came to be as it's a great illustration of how crazy Conservatism has become. It was originally a Conservative talking point b/c, back them in 2008, Cons actually believed in climate change and actually thought a response was needed so it a Conservative environment minister who pushed for it and then BC with a BC Liberal govt was the first to implement it.
The federal implementation was revenue neutral - all money collected was returned to taxpayers while the BC implementation was originally revenue neutral (it changed when the NDP took power so now we have a big budget hole to fill - expect higher income taxes).
In the span of 15 odd years we went from the carbon tax being a key policy for Conservatives (and them implementing it first) to them going crazy against it. It's not like the policy didn't work either - it's good policy and always has been and it's done the job it was intended to do.
Now we have batshit crazy people in the Conservative parties across the country.
In related news - today is the 50th anniversary of Canada switching to the metric system. To no one's surprise the people most opposed to it were Conservatives. If Canada tried to switch to the metric system today PP would be calling it part of the radical woke agenda to do it cause it's cooler to have measurements that make no sense (see Nate Bargatze's SNL skit on this).
What makes you think a Conservative government is going to make the corner of Commercial and Venables better? What policy have they put forward that makes you think that would change under PP? You’re saying they’re homeless and that’s their plight but Conservative governments have a proven history of cutting assistance programs and defunding initiatives that help disadvantaged people. You don’t make any sense.
You’re always conflating responsibilities at various levels of government. That intersection is 100% a BC government issue. There’s not one politician in Ottawa in any party that gives a fuck about East Van.
How many people there with bunch of stolen shit strewn around them are repeat criminals?
Reform criminal justice system, lock up repeat offenders, you’ll take half those people off the streets.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Today is a good day to revisit history a bit to understand where and how the carbon tax came to be as it's a great illustration of how crazy Conservatism has become. It was originally a Conservative talking point b/c, back them in 2008, Cons actually believed in climate change and actually thought a response was needed so it a Conservative environment minister who pushed for it and then BC with a BC Liberal govt was the first to implement it.
The federal implementation was revenue neutral - all money collected was returned to taxpayers while the BC implementation was originally revenue neutral (it changed when the NDP took power so now we have a big budget hole to fill - expect higher income taxes).
In the span of 15 odd years we went from the carbon tax being a key policy for Conservatives (and them implementing it first) to them going crazy against it. It's not like the policy didn't work either - it's good policy and always has been and it's done the job it was intended to do.
Now we have batshit crazy people in the Conservative parties across the country.
In related news - today is the 50th anniversary of Canada switching to the metric system. To no one's surprise the people most opposed to it were Conservatives. If Canada tried to switch to the metric system today PP would be calling it part of the radical woke agenda to do it cause it's cooler to have measurements that make no sense (see Nate Bargatze's SNL skit on this).
So what you’re saying was.. it changed compared to what was originally implemented, and then people opposed it when it was changed… wild..
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
They're mostly in that position due to closer to home issues though?
Locking everyone away certainly improves your evening walk but it doesn't solve the societal problem. Conservatives are NEVER going to do that.
I mean I support you, repeat offenders need to be dealt with more harshly... but also need support from behind as well to have a chance at reform or success and they Cons are never ever ever going to follow through on anything resembling that. If anything it will get worse... and you just have to hope you're not the first person they offend against I guess?
So what you’re saying was.. it changed compared to what was originally implemented, and then people opposed it when it was changed… wild..
You have misread what I wrote or are your typical obtuse self. The federal implementation has stayed consistent (it's revenue neutral and money is returned to taxpayers) - it's the BC one that changed where the revenue was brought into provincial coffers and income tax rates were cut instead. Neither case resulted in a tax increase.
They're mostly in that position due to closer to home issues though?
Locking everyone away certainly improves your evening walk but it doesn't solve the societal problem. Conservatives are NEVER going to do that.
I mean I support you, repeat offenders need to be dealt with more harshly... but also need support from behind as well to have a chance at reform or success and they Cons are never ever ever going to follow through on anything resembling that. If anything it will get worse... and you just have to hope you're not the first person they offend against I guess?
The affordability issue of the last decade is the primary driver for homelessness. Period.
Given the current state of addiction and mental illness, and how’s it been dealt with from the left side of politics, why would there be any hope of change from the status quo?
This isn’t hyperbole at all to say the homelessness and addiction issues we face today are by far the worst they’ve ever been.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
You’re saying they’re homeless and that’s their plight but Conservative governments have a proven history of cutting assistance programs and defunding initiatives that help disadvantaged people. You don’t make any sense..
Maybe a few more "safe" injection sites will improve things.
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00-20 was a biggest jump in BC real estate ever, prices tripled with only a minor stall around 2011 for about a year... and Harper was around for half of that time (06-15 to be precise)?
And that also happened under the BC Libs which are not a left wing party.
Maybe a few more "safe" injection sites will improve things.
Those don't succeed on their own but they CAN in conjunction with other support programs. On their own they're doomed to failure and have been poorly implemented.
Maybe a few more "safe" injection sites will improve things.
You seem to know very little about the topic of homelessness and drug use.
The problem here is that you get pushed into thinking a lose/lose policy regarding the un-housed/drug addicts is good because is punishes them somehow. It's an emotional response, and it feels good. And people cheer you on for feeling that way and dirt bag columnists and politicians feed on that emotion. But it just isn't good for anyone other than the grifters.
That 'punishment' just ends up costing us way more than the alternative. Plus.. it's inhumane.. if that matters anymore.
And please don’t just come back “but the cons won’t fix it!?!?”
Not a single person here could look me in the eyes and say they have confident in any govt. even with a blank cheque in hand, that they could make meaningful change to this situation.
If EVERYONE is useless, and incapable of making change, which we’ve seen nothing but incompetence at every single level of govt. It’s time to at the very least, get the problem out of view.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Last edited by Hondaracer; 04-01-2025 at 02:04 PM.
You seem to know very little about the topic of homelessness and drug use.
The problem here is that you get pushed into thinking a lose/lose policy regarding the un-housed/drug addicts is good because is punishes them somehow. It's an emotional response, and it feels good. And people cheer you on for feeling that way and dirt bag columnists and politicians feed on that emotion. But it just isn't good for anyone other than the grifters.
That 'punishment' just ends up costing us way more than the alternative. Plus.. it's inhumane.. if that matters anymore.
Parks are not places for people to live. They are shared amongst the community and are intended to be used by all members of the public. It is non-excludable, period. It was pretty the past few years when the parks were full of homeless people who refused to go to shelters.
Every single homeless person sitting in a tent in Toronto is approached by a city worker and offered housing(whether through a shelter or temporary hotel) and most end up taking the offer. The rest that don't refuse to because they would rather do drugs.
You know where they don't get help for their addictions and joblessness? In a park. The safe injection sites don't help either.
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Look I'm in total agreement with you that the Trudeau government totally shit the bed with crime and street disorder. But don't think for a second that PP will lift a finger to do anything about it, or otherwise knee-jerk remove support systems in order to "send a message" that they're tough on crime. You want to throw every vagrant into lockup? Fine, it's going to take mucho money to bring up our jails and mental hospitals out of capacity. Then what? We can't just sentence everyone to life in prison or maybe you think we should bring back the death penalty or debtor prisons. Or even worse, following the US and start contracting private prison corporations.
Remember, things can always get worse. As bad as it seems now, it can always get much much worse. Trump was voted in to "solve" inflation and "solve" migration. Look where we are at now. That's the problem with single issue voters so hyperfixed on one cause they're willing to light the bed on fire to solve the problem of dirty sheets.
And please don’t just come back “but the cons won’t fix it!?!?”
Not a single person here could look me in the eyes and say they have confident in any govt. even with a blank cheque in hand, that they could make meaningful change to this situation.
I don't think North American society understands how much it will cost to fix it - it's not that different than what it will cost to address climate change or housing etc so we're loosely left with two choices:
- Hide the problem by imprisoning the homeless, the mentally ill, and the addicted. (Basically the end game of Conservatives)
- Spend limited funds on a mishmash of programs have worked elsewhere but because of a lack of funding they invariably will have failures. This is social housing, shelters, injection sites etc. (Basically what the left proposes)
Both cost more money than we're spending today and both could help but I don't think society wants to fix this problem as much as we want to fix other problems. It's one we've largely accepted b/c, for most people, it's already out of sight (I might encounter a homeless person every month or so and rarely do I run into a mentally ill person or a drug addict)
To you this is the highest priority issue over anything else but to most of the rest of it I'd be surprised that it even makes it into the top 5 or even top 10 (it wouldn't make my top 5 for certain) and if it's not top 3 I don't see the gov't spending the money it takes to make a real impact. That's not the politicians fault, that's society's choice.
Well.. I think I’ve outlined in numerous times before but the incumbent govt. has proven time and time again, they are not going to fix those issues either.
So at the very least, it’s worth a shot to try something new, because things have only gotten worse this way.
When I said things were getting bad, people here said they weren’t.
Now things are VERY bad and it’s the same answer.
In terms of difficulty, locking people up is far simpler to deal with than actually addressing the issues. It’s basically exactly the same thing they are trying now with their low barrier housing. Give people a brand new home, give them everything they need to get off the street, and many just say the incredibly minor “rules” to live in these places don’t suit them and they are just back on the street.
It’s a complex problem with imbeciles trying to fix it, balancing hurt feelings and “aboriginal rights”. A criminal is a criminal, an addict is an addict, mental illness is mental illness.
Going back to POS Jenny Kwan, her husband working for the Portland society gets a $40,000 “vacation” bonus working somewhere like that?!? And you need a formal govt. audit in order to see the money squandered in places like this? It’s RAMPANT lol..
There is no will to fix this problem.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Last edited by Hondaracer; 04-01-2025 at 02:37 PM.
That's the problem with single issue voters so hyperfixed on one cause they're willing to light the bed on fire to solve the problem of dirty sheets.
Reminds me of this kid I know. His parents moved back to Taiwan leaving him by himself. Instead of washing dishes, he was throwing them out. Expensive ceramic plates, single use
Recent social media posts by Marquis promote popular right-wing conspiracy theories, including that Bill Gates is trying to manipulate public health for profit through vaccines, and that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was “provoked” by the expansion of NATO.
He also criticized Canada’s equalization payment system, calling Quebec “a disgrace,” and adding “Plateau snobs, ecocrats and other shameless socialists should be put on galleys for impoverishing us into the pit.”
Maquis’ social media posts also include shared posts taking aim at Liberal Leader Mark Carney, including an “exposé” calling the former central banker the “grim reaper for the economic destruction of Canada,” and linking him to convicted sex offender Ghislaine Maxwell.
In his post announcing he’ll no longer be running for the Conservatives, Marquis called himself a “devoted ally” of the party.
“The party in so doing desecrated the basic principle of the first of our natural rights: that of liberty,” Marquis wrote.
“Publish a non-vetted tweet on X and expect ostracization from your natural ally. This now appears to be the way of Canadian politics,” he also wrote.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Yes, I 100% agree the federal Liberals, and the BC NDP have half assed it. As supafamous says, it would cost billions and take decades.
House everyone according to their needs, legalize it, give proper support to those need it. Give people a route out of their situation but understand that most hardcore users take opioids not so much for fun, but as an escape from something.
You'd need a decade or more to get the ROI, and no one with the power to do it would be in office to see the result.
When you have that in place you can police properly. It has got to be a nightmare trying to deal with people who have nothing to lose and just spend their day trying to feel less sick or avoid being robbed/assaulted.
Parks are not places for people to live. They are shared amongst the community and are intended to be used by all members of the public. It is non-excludable, period. It was pretty the past few years when the parks were full of homeless people who refused to go to shelters.
Every single homeless person sitting in a tent in Toronto is approached by a city worker and offered housing(whether through a shelter or temporary hotel) and most end up taking the offer. The rest that don't refuse to because they would rather do drugs.
Where’s your info coming from? This all sounds incredibly anecdotal.
Severe punishment for repeat criminals. Wild concept.
At this point in time, stiffer punishment (in sentencing) isn't what Canadian society needs to reduce crime. Instead, we really need to address the following 3 things:
- severe backlog of cases that the courts -- both at the federala and provincial levels
- insufficient capacity at correctional facilities
- bail reform
In simple terms, #1 is happening bcos we don't have enough judges and court staff to process the cases we have. #2 means we don't have enough capacity to detain/jail people, as well as us not having enough correctional facility staff. #3 is needed bcos we keep having people with 30+ convictions getting released on bail, and they just go right back to commit more crimes.
Having stiffer sentences does absolutely nothing to make society safer -- not when our legal system is already incapable of processing all the cases it needs to process.
Intimate partner violence survivors are now suing the federal gov bcos many of their cases are being thrown out despite having the full and complete evidence to convict their POS intimate partners. The courts are just too clogged up, and they can't process the cases before the clock runs out on how soon the case must be heard after charges are laid. Have a watch/listen to this:
And this is just a tip of the iceberg bcos the court backlog doesn't just happen for intimate partner violence. It's systemic and affects all cases the courts need to process.
To really make our society safer from the court system's perspective, we need to make our court system functional again because right now, it is functioning rather poorly at best. Until we these core problems, making sentences stiffer isn't gonna change anything when our courts can't process the charges, our jails don't have the capacity to house the criminals, and our bail system keeps sending repeated offenders back out on the streets.
We all know why politicians -- in this case PeePee -- is only calling for stiffer sentences. It is easy to do, it doesn't cost anything, and too many clueless idiots think having stiffer laws would automatically translate to a safer Canada. But reality doesn't work this way. If we want to do something, we need to spend money on things that would actually have useful outcomes. But that's too much work to do, and it takes money to do things. More taxes means the politicians don't get elected. So it doesn't get done.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westopher
The whole world has gone down a road no one can recover from, and it's nothing to do with governments, it's because so much of the general public is so fucking stupid.
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