Canadian politics thread

[supafamous]

1. Homelessness is more of a municipal and provincial responsibility than it is a federal responsibility. If you want to blame someone blame the locals, not the Feds.
2. Society doesn't really want to fix the problem and doesn't understand the costs of it so it's out of sight, out of mind. (Note: It's actually cheaper to house and feed them than it is to leave them out there).
3. As a result of #2 political parties do a lot of hand waving towards the problem and don't really address it - it's simply not a priority for them. It's not a matter of failed policies, it's just not important enough to fix.
4. It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to be deeply concerned about the homelessness problem and think the Conservatives, the party of "More for me, less for thee" are the people who can help fix it. If you really believe homelessness has to be addressed and it's a high priority there are parties on the left who actually want to address the problem - it's still not a top priority for them but they are far more serious about it than any other party and they have a deeper understanding of the problem (like they actually read the science).

Homelessness just isn't important enough for me and many of the other policies of parties on the left aren't policies I support so I don't vote for those parties but I'm not blind to the tradeoff I'm making. I know I'm choosing to let homeless people suffer with my vote.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

They are not my photos. I used to browse Revscene and other car forums when I was young(I am turning 30 soon) and I saved photos of cars I thought were cool to my harddrive. There really isn't much more to this. A lot of this content and photos are completely lost on the internet so I thought it would be cool to remind people how the car scene was and how it evolved.



I am rolling my eyes here by how far off the mark you are. Your antipathy towards people who hold conservatives is dually noted.

You keep equivocating my comments in this thread to make me out as some sort of conservative extremist because I criticized Carney and refuse to vote for the Liberals that have fucked the economy up.

We are about one month in since he became PM and we have more tariffs on Canada than when he came to office. Amazing negotiation skills here, pal. I don't care about words. I only look at actions and results and I am not impressed so far.

I disagree completely.

My antipathy towards you isn't about you being a conservative, I have conservative friends that can have conversation in good faith, my distaste is more toward being a douchebag.

My conservative friends don't shit on people's degrees or their choice of educational path like you have in this thread, among some of your other comments.

You enjoy trolling, which is something I have a firm distaste for in this modern online discourse, I don't think it solves anything when people argue out of bad faith.

As for the tariffs, you know that's a strawman argument, name me one leader that has negotiated the tariffs off, or made any semblance of a deal thus far?

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by supafamous

1. Homelessness is more of a municipal and provincial responsibility than it is a federal responsibility. If you want to blame someone blame the locals, not the Feds.
2. Society doesn't really want to fix the problem and doesn't understand the costs of it so it's out of sight, out of mind. (Note: It's actually cheaper to house and feed them than it is to leave them out there).
3. As a result of #2 political parties do a lot of hand waving towards the problem and don't really address it - it's simply not a priority for them. It's not a matter of failed policies, it's just not important enough to fix.
4. It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to be deeply concerned about the homelessness problem and think the Conservatives, the party of "More for me, less for thee" are the people who can help fix it. If you really believe homelessness has to be addressed and it's a high priority there are parties on the left who actually want to address the problem - it's still not a top priority for them but they are far more serious about it than any other party and they have a deeper understanding of the problem (like they actually read the science).

Homelessness just isn't important enough for me and many of the other policies of parties on the left aren't policies I support so I don't vote for those parties but I'm not blind to the tradeoff I'm making. I know I'm choosing to let homeless people suffer with my vote.

As I’ve said before, the affordability problem is largely linked to the aforementioned issues. But unfortunately we’ve passed that to a point where, as outlined in the previous page even if affordability was achieved it won’t fix these issues.

You make good points and I agree. However, I think this blanket opinion people like Skinny have that PP and the cons = Trump is not the case.

These conservative values and the platform of the Canadian Conservative Party does not align with Trumps BS. Can you actually sit here and look at the Canadian Conservative Party and think its members are simply out for personal financial gain like the republicans?

They cannot wield influence on the markets, they have no ability to control foreign policy. Canada is largely ineffective as a nation to wield influence on anyone. Yet you think everyone is just in this for personal gain? Personally I don’t see it.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

I will thank him once the industrial carbon tax is gone.

Mikemhg can eat his words now Truly a delusional person.

Crude oil has dropped by $10 (15%) over the last week or so, which as Westopher mentioned, puts it at about the same price as early 2021, during COVID. That is a major piece.

But fair is fair, I will concede the price of gas has dropped by quite a large margin.

[underscore]

Conservatives regularly try to line their own pockets. PP owns multiple rental properties, he's not going to do anything apart from try to jack up real estate even further.

Originally Posted by supafamous

1. Homelessness is more of a municipal and provincial responsibility than it is a federal responsibility. If you want to blame someone blame the locals, not the Feds.

Ultimately yes, but the Feds still need to be keeping the country in good enough shape that the provinces and cities can actually succeed, and should be incentivizing them to move in a common direction.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by 68style

Takes skytrain to downtown: “There’s homeless people here! Disgusting Liberals!”

Rents car in Portugal to drive between ocean views AirBnB and winery: “No homeless people in this paradise, must be a Conservative government…. Right? Right?”

(Portugal is run by a coalition of Liberal, Green and Socialist parties that toppled the Conservative government many years ago)

I think Honda and others in this thread are ignoring a major reason why homelessness is so bad in Canada, and America for that matter.

Cost of housing of course is a major causation, but I think what's being ignored by Honda is notably culture.

Let's be real here, Western culture is shit -- we spent the last few decades espousing this idea of independence and freedom, many of us were kicked out of the home right at adulthood. That would be completely unheard of in other cultures and countries. I've heard so many Hispanic friends from throughout Latin America comment on how much worse the homelessness issue is in the Western world, it's also the reason why you don't really see homeless Chinese or Indians here.

The vast majority of homeless people come from Westernized households, plain and simple.

It's our culture, it's our lack of community that has exasperated this problem to its ridiculous levels.

No political party can change that.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

My conservative friends don't shit on people's degrees or their choice of educational path like you have in this thread, among some of your other comments.

What did you study? Do you have an arts degree? You take it so personally. It is a fact that the employability of an arts degree in Canada is far worse than anyone with a STEM degree. You also earn far less too because those degrees are so saturated. Most people who study arts and humanities don't find a job in their field.

Sorry pal, the degree is a complete waste of time and money for most people.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by underscore

Conservatives regularly try to line their own pockets. PP owns multiple rental properties, he's not going to do anything apart from try to jack up real estate even further.



Ultimately yes, but the Feds still need to be keeping the country in good enough shape that the provinces and cities can actually succeed, and should be incentivizing them to move in a common direction.

As opposed to leaders who are already vastly independently wealthy and became infinitely more wealthy through the “crises” they guided us through.. ok.

You could throw a stone in Vancouver and hit someone with more wealth than PP. Comparatively to Carney and Trudeau he’s a pauper. Yet his only motivation is building wealth? Through inflating house prices, the number one issue facing his constituents?

Come on.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

Do you have an arts degree? You take it so personally. It is a fact that the employability of an arts degree in Canada is far worse than anyone with a STEM degree. You also earn far less too because those degrees are so saturated. Most people who study arts and humanities don't find a job in their field.

No I don't have an arts degree, I work in tech, however I would never besmirch someone who has earned a degree in whatever field.

Your way of referring to people who don't go into finance as "broke losers" is just gross to me, maybe you'll grow up one day and see the world in a more compassionate way, but nonetheless I have a firm distaste for finance bros that carry your type of mindset.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

I think Honda and others in this thread are ignoring a major reason why homelessness is so bad in Canada, and America for that matter.

Cost of housing of course is a major causation, but I think what's being ignored by Honda is notably culture.

Let's be real here, Western culture is shit -- we spent the last few decades espousing this idea of independence and freedom, many of us were kicked out of the home right at adulthood. That would be completely unheard of in other cultures and countries. I've heard so many Hispanic friends from throughout Latin America comment on how much worse the homelessness issue is in the Western world, it's also the reason why you don't really see homeless Chinese or Indians here.

The vast majority of homeless people come from Westernized households, plain and simple.

It's our culture, it's our lack of community that has exasperated this problem to its ridiculous levels.

No political party can change that.

You couple that with what I mentioned before in that the societal attitude towards homelessness, addiction, etc. is simply to accept is as the norm and here we are.

People in general think that all these people came from “broken homes” or some other fucked up situation that ultimately landed them where they are. When in fact, these days that’s simply not the case.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

You couple that with what I mentioned before in that the societal attitude towards homelessness, addiction, etc. is simply to accept is as the norm and here we are.

People in general think that all these people came from “broken homes” or some other fucked up situation that ultimately landed them where they are. When in fact, these days that’s simply not the case.

Hold up, how can you come to that conclusion?

Are you walking the DTES asking people their stories? That's a pretty bold take to have without any actual evidence to support that.

Look at the people in your pictures, they're all in their early 20s. The last time I was in downtown Victoria, for example, the vast majority of homeless I observed on the street were mostly kids, it actually made me quite sad seeing kids my nephew's ages sleeping on the street like that.

If you don't think that's an indictment of a broken home, I don't know what to tell you.

That's a very wild take.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

No I don't have an arts degree, I work in tech, however I would never besmirch someone who has earned a degree in whatever field.

Your way of referring to people who don't go into finance as "broke losers" is just gross to me, maybe you'll grow up one day and see the world in a more compassionate way, but nonetheless I have a firm distaste for finance bros that carry your type of mindset.

Where did I write "broke loser" ? Do you have dementia?

I will continue advocating for people to work harder in school so they don't get stuck in a useless program with extremely limited job prospects.

Arts & Humanities....dead last.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...016023-eng.cfm

[Hondaracer]

So anecdotally, but I feel like this is a pretty good sample size, I know two people who work in SRO’s in the DTES and then two other people who worked in addiction recovery programs. 100% I’d take a lie detector test to attest to all of this.

Younger people, yes broken homes, terrible situations etc. sure.

However many people now are on the street because of affordability issues, tenuous housing situations, employment, etc.

THEN you have the traditional ways people end up there, injuries, prescribed opiates, turn to street drugs, addiction takes your life over.

The people I know who work on the SRO’s though they say the young people are absolutely hopeless. If you’re a 18 year old addict, homeless, without support, what’s the best case scenario? You get clean and work construction? They say these situations are growing to be larger portions of the addicts and they no longer care if they live or die. They will tear apart SRO’s they will overdose time after time because even getting clean doesn’t mean an improvement.

[westopher]

There's plenty of evidence that homelessness is often attributed to drug use, and drug use is often attributed to childhood trauma, so it's easy to see the link of childhood trauma to homelessness down the track.
Like Mike said, people being out of the house when they aren't prepared to due to societal pressures to get out of the house.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

As opposed to leaders who are already vastly independently wealthy and became infinitely more wealthy through the “crises” they guided us through.. ok.

You could throw a stone in Vancouver and hit someone with more wealth than PP. Comparatively to Carney and Trudeau he’s a pauper. Yet his only motivation is building wealth? Through inflating house prices, the number one issue facing his constituents?

Come on.

You think Conservatives are in it out of the goodness of their hearts? The people like Harper and Ford who repeatedly acted only in the interests of profits for themselves and their friends?

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by underscore

You think Conservatives are in it out of the goodness of their hearts? The people like Harper and Ford who repeatedly acted only in the interests of profits for themselves and their friends?

This whole thing about Ford only interested in "profits for themselves and their friends" is pure fantasy and conjecture. There is no proof of it. Period.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by donk.

The way to avoid going to prison after a DUI accident, is you get out of your car, flee the scene, come back after the cops are there with/without a bottle in hand.

Once the cops ask you why you left, you state that you were stressed out after the accident, took the unopened bottle from your trunk, walked away, drank, came back.

Now its an accident, and not a DUI.......

Originally Posted by unit

ah yes the monty robinson strategy!

Except the Liberals killed that in 2018 with bill C46. Among many other changes that toughened up on impaired driving...

Why is it now an offence to have a BAC of at or over 80 mg within two hours of driving?

The law has been changed so a person's blood alcohol concentration (BAC) cannot be at or over 80 mg within two-hours after driving. This aims to discourage risky and dangerous behavior that poses a risk on our roads. The new law has eliminated the "bolus drinking" defence and has limited the "intervening drinking" defence.

For example, on a "bolus drinking" defence, a driver would admit that their BAC was over 80 mg at the time of testing. However, they could then claim to have consumed a significant amount of alcohol just before or while driving arguing that the alcohol was still being absorbed and, at the time of driving, their BAC was not over 80.

The "intervening drink" defence is used when a driver claims to have consumed alcohol after operating the vehicle but before testing. Where this defence was most frequently used was after an accident where the driver claimed they drank to 'calm their nerves' post-incident. This defence made it difficult for law enforcement to determine actual BAC at the time of driving.

The conduct of bolus drinking and post-driving drinking has also been the subject of negative judicial commentary, including by the Supreme Court of Canada. In addition, this new offence structure has long-been used in more than a dozen US states, including Alaska, Washington, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Utah and has, for the most part, withstood constitutional scrutiny.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by underscore

You think Conservatives are in it out of the goodness of their hearts? The people like Harper and Ford who repeatedly acted only in the interests of profits for themselves and their friends?

Estimates currently put Harper’s net worth at 7m.

I have neighbours in east van likely worth more.

If his end goal was wealth, that was a very poor job of it.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So anecdotally, but I feel like this is a pretty good sample size, I know two people who work in SRO’s in the DTES and then two other people who worked in addiction recovery programs. 100% I’d take a lie detector test to attest to all of this.

Younger people, yes broken homes, terrible situations etc. sure.

However many people now are on the street because of affordability issues, tenuous housing situations, employment, etc.

THEN you have the traditional ways people end up there, injuries, prescribed opiates, turn to street drugs, addiction takes your life over.

The people I know who work on the SRO’s though they say the young people are absolutely hopeless. If you’re a 18 year old addict, homeless, without support, what’s the best case scenario? You get clean and work construction? They say these situations are growing to be larger portions of the addicts and they no longer care if they live or die. They will tear apart SRO’s they will overdose time after time because even getting clean doesn’t mean an improvement.

Of course they're hopeless, being 18 on the street, no family support, what path do you have out of that?

I carry a very different opinion on this whole subject, my father before retiring was a career family counselor, working for organizations such a Touchstone Family Services.

You'd be shocked how much of these non-profits are flooded with kids coming out of broken families, juvenile homes, etc.

These associations literally can't keep up with how many cases they're handling.

These are people you're seeing on the streets. I'm not giving excuses to their predicaments, but there is a fundamental problem with our culture that you simply don't see the same prevalence of in other societies.

We laugh how many Chinese or Indians live at home until they're in their late 20s or 30s, well established and ready to be independent, but it actuality it is exactly what sets them up for success.

Latin American cultures also carry a huge importance on community and family, if a youth becomes addicted or falls off track, there is more of a push within their family/community to collectively address the person's problem, hence why you don't see these swaths of homeless people in their countries.

Pull a random country like Mexico for example, the incidence of homeless in that country is FAR less significant than that in the US, why do you think that is?

[AstulzerRZD]

What do we actually expect to happen with homelessness?
Keep in mind, I'm center right but generally vote center left.

Here are some ground truths:

They’ll keep coming to Vancouver—good weather.
Numbers rise when the economy tanks.
Jail’s expensive and doesn’t help.
Rehab helps a bit, but it’s costly.
Hospitals? Same deal.

To me, the fix is either a stronger economy or real changes to housing and self-sufficiency. $10/day daycare boosts productivity and tax revenue. Add upzoning like Austin to cut housing costs by 25% and you’re on your way.

[Hondaracer]

Because people know there aren’t societal safety nets that will enable their lifestyles? When I was in PV a couple months back we went out fishing with a local guide and his son. My dad remarked that there were no police where we were staying and there was hardly any presence at all of the police or military in all of PV. The local guide who grew up right next to the resort and had live there his whole life said it’s because the cartel handles all the issues. He said if you want drugs and you asked me where to buy them, you’re dealing with Carlos and Carlos alone. If someone else came in and started selling drugs outside of the designated guy, he’d be dead within the week. Same goes for theft or other general disorder. I’d say it’s. or really a direct comparable but I get what you’re saying.

However, inn Canada, we literally have organizations backing the right for addicts and homeless to live the way they do? lol

I agree wholeheartedly in regards to the familiar issues of western society. But we are at a point where now you are even seeing Indian guys, Asian guys, among the homeless addicts.

The guy who killed the RCMP officer was Chinese.

It’s kind of becoming a bigger issue than simply the family values

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Because people know there aren’t societal safety nets that will enable their lifestyles?

Whereas in Canada, we literally have organizations backing the right for addicts and homeless to live the way they do? lol

I agree wholeheartedly in regards to the familiar issues of western society. But we are at a point where now you are even seeing Indian guys, Asian guys, among the homeless addicts.

The guy who killed the RCMP officer was Chinese.

It’s kind of becoming a bigger issue than simply the family values

What enabling societal safety nets are allowing these people to function the way they are?
You said yourself these people are ready to die. OD after OD. Safety nets that give these people some hope to actually get out of poverty are the way out. In one post you talk about how hopelessness is the driver and in another you suggest a route that would exacerbate hopelessness.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by westopher

What enabling societal safety nets are allowing these people to function the way they are?
You said yourself these people are ready to die. OD after OD. Safety nets that give these people some hope to actually get out of poverty are the way out. In one post you talk about how hopelessness is the driver and in another you suggest a route that would exacerbate hopelessness.

Safe injection sites, SRO’s, safe supply, welfare cheques

Do I need to continue?

You think someone on the street in Mexico is getting a welfare cheque?

[westopher]

You do, because let's look at what effects removing those would have on hopelessness for that group of people. Are you suggesting making sure addicts have no rooms to live in, or money? What do you think that's going to do for crime?

[Hondaracer]

Well in other places those people would just die rather than enabling their lifestyle.

You’ve got a roof over your head, a pay cheque coming in, and all the free crack pipes you can line your pockets with. This lifestyle seems vastly preferred to actually putting in the effort to get clean and gain employment.

We subsidize all of that while not providing timely support for recovery and mental health.. under.. this liberal structure.