Daycare options

[hi-revs]

As many of the RS folks have gotten older and started a family of their own, I'm wondering what you did for your child regarding daycare.

What's your preference btwn GROUP vs FAMILY daycare?

I've checked out a handful of daycares, most of them being Chinese owned...
For me, my daughter getting a head start and learning English is very important. My wife and I both speak English and Cantonese at home.

Heres my dilemma:
Option #1: family daycare. Only speaks Cantonese and mandarin. They even teach how to write Chinese, which is nice. They learn to sing children's Chinese songs etc. They even provide 3 meals per day, of Chinese food. But no English exposure kind of bothers me.

Option#2: group daycare. Teaches standard stuff as any other daycare. Speaks in Cantonese and English to the kids. Sings traditional english nursery songs. HOWEVER, these songs are sung with a FOB accent...

*both daycares are licensed by either Fraser health or Vancouver coastal.

My daughter will be starting daycare at 1 years old and I'm having a hell of a hard time deciding.
I'm leaning towards option #1. But I'd kick myself in the face if she turned out being a FOB and/or picking up a fob accent.

Am I scaring myself? Should I be worried?
Would love to hear some experiences and/or insights.

[fliptuner]

I'd go with option 1.

She's going to learn English no matter what. It'll also save the trouble of going to Chinese school on Saturday (more family time).

We drop our daughter off at her grandma's on Monday morning and pick her up on Tuesday after work. We only want her speaking Cantonese with her. Wednesday to Friday she's in Montessori daycare, with all ethnicities. There's a French lady there that we instructed to only speak to her in French. Then on Saturday she has formal Chinese school. At some point I want her in a Mandarin class. Her godmother only speaks to her in Spanish lol.

[Presto]

I agree with Option 1.
Kids will pick up English from everywhere else.

[yray]

#daycarescene

give a kid a pad and youtube, they'll start singing songs from bpm in no time

[Gumby]

Option 1 all the way. There is absolutely no way your kids will not learn English living here in Canada.

I speak English & Cantonese at home with my wife. My parents are fluent in both as well. In-laws, the mom can get by with basic English, and the dad speaks his own village dialect, lol.

We all spoke Cantonese for the most part for my first kid, and he even tried speaking Cantonese in preschool. But the moment he went to kindergarten, he lost his Cantonese

Second kid we didn’t even bother; his brother would talk to him in English!

[hud 91gt]

My wife is Greek, and didn’t really start speaking English until she was in school. Her English still seems like a second language sometimes. Pretty funny. It was Greek in the house all the time.

[urrh]

i remember this kid in high school who joined up with the honger group and started speaking fobby like them even though his english was fine.
that being said, i hated chinese school as a kid and refused to speak it

[Obsideon]

Option 1 for sure.
We are actually trying our best to NOT speak English to our daughter.
My wife and daycare speaks mandarin to her, my mom speaks Cantonese and grandfather and sister-in-law speak Japanese to her.
As others have mentioned growing up in Canada it will be IMPOSSIBLE for your child to not end up speaking English fluently. In fact despite our efforts she is still picking up on mostly English words in her vocabulary. I guess from TV and other children at daycare.

[CivicBlues]

Anyone else notice there's an "Asian-Canadian" or "Chinese-Canadian" accent even among people that were born here and speak English fluently? I find that it pervades a lot of people who grew up on the East side presumably whilst growing up in a Cantonese speaking household and hanging out with mostly Chinese-Canadian peers with the same background.

I, on the other hand, grew up in a mostly white neighborhood and had mostly white friends in Elementary with a few Asians friends who were mostly whitewashed. It was only until I went to HS my social group slanted (sorry) more towards the Asian side. Even now people still say I "sound white" when I speak. Even now when speaking to CBCs I can pretty much tell as well which side of Main Street you grew up on (or if you're from the suburbs) just by the way you speak.

Not saying one is better than the other. In fact, I'm probably at a disadvantage since I can't speak Chinese to save my life.

[Mr.HappySilp]

My niece is coming up 3 years old in June. She been to daycare since 2. The daycare she goes to is a family home style which is nice. However she speaks mainly Cnanto with us and even though the daycare advertise they have people who speaks English, mandarin and Cnato is mostly mandarin that the teachers speaks and the kids there mostly speaks mandarin.

For the first little bit my niece wasn't happy coz she can't communicate with the kids at all so she felt really lonely. There is only a teacher there speaks Canto so my niece is only happy when that teacher is around. Also the English they do teach is not really English ie Mushroom they would say Mus SH HU ROOM or something like that. But she is starting to learn more mandarin and starting to get use to it. I would say pay a visit to the daycare and spend at least a few hours there to see how the daycare is fun.

PS. I though you have to start looking for a daycare/school right when you find out you have a baby on the way since most daycare and school have a 2+ year waiting list?

[radioman]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

I'd go with option 1.

She's going to learn English no matter what. It'll also save the trouble of going to Chinese school on Saturday (more family time).

We drop our daughter off at her grandma's on Monday morning and pick her up on Tuesday after work. We only want her speaking Cantonese with her. Wednesday to Friday she's in Montessori daycare, with all ethnicities. There's a French lady there that we instructed to only speak to her in French. Then on Saturday she has formal Chinese school. At some point I want her in a Mandarin class. Her godmother only speaks to her in Spanish lol.

Day one of school shes gonna bust out a "ni hao hombre, comme ca va with you?"

[underscore]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

My wife is Greek, and didn’t really start speaking English until she was in school. Her English still seems like a second language sometimes. Pretty funny. It was Greek in the house all the time.

Growing up I had a bunch of friends that were in French immersion, their English speech was fine but for a lot of them their writing/typing was terrible, IM'ing or texting them was like reading stuff from a very fresh ESL student. A couple years after grad one of them went to France and tried to use the French he spent 12+ years becoming fluent in to order at a cafe and they refused to serve him because his French apparently wasn't bang on.

My point being whatever languages they're learning, one of them should be a primary focus over the others. Obviously being multilingual is an asset but if you can't form a coherent email in any of them I'd think that's a bit of a hindrance to your professional life later on.

[minoru_tanaka]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Anyone else notice there's an "Asian-Canadian" or "Chinese-Canadian" accent even among people that were born here and speak English fluently? I find that it pervades a lot of people who grew up on the East side presumably whilst growing up in a Cantonese speaking household and hanging out with mostly Chinese-Canadian peers with the same background.

I, on the other hand, grew up in a mostly white neighborhood and had mostly white friends in Elementary with a few Asians friends who were mostly whitewashed. It was only until I went to HS my social group slanted (sorry) more towards the Asian side. Even now people still say I "sound white" when I speak. Even now when speaking to CBCs I can pretty much tell as well which side of Main Street you grew up on (or if you're from the suburbs) just by the way you speak.

Not saying one is better than the other. In fact, I'm probably at a disadvantage since I can't speak Chinese to save my life.

You can usually tell if a chinese person went to Britannia and if a punjabi person went to John Oliver

[Spoon]

Grew up in a family where my parents spoke Cantonese and 潮州話. I don't speak a lick of the latter, so it's almost like their secret language when they're in a private conversation or with their parents. I did not care much for it either as I felt it was out of touch with my world.

Looking at what's happening in Hong Kong, I feel that Cantonese will eventually be phased out and treated the same way. It'll be the previous generation's language, so I don't lose much sleep over my kids not being able to speak it. If the purpose of your children learning Cantonese is based solely on knowing your family roots, I understand. But based on utility, whether it's for your belief that it's beneficial for their future prospects or just to connect with a specific community, I'm curious why you're not opting for mandarin alone.

[yray]

canto = Nine sound six tones

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by underscore

Growing up I had a bunch of friends that were in French immersion, their English speech was fine but for a lot of them their writing/typing was terrible, IM'ing or texting them was like reading stuff from a very fresh ESL student. A couple years after grad one of them went to France and tried to use the French he spent 12+ years becoming fluent in to order at a cafe and they refused to serve him because his French apparently wasn't bang on.

My point being whatever languages they're learning, one of them should be a primary focus over the others. Obviously being multilingual is an asset but if you can't form a coherent email in any of them I'd think that's a bit of a hindrance to your professional life later on.

Most of the French immersion teachers are from Canadian regions where French is major language. However, it's still way off than comparing to French French. There's no right or wrong. It's just the accent a region develops.

It's only a subtle difference from outsiders, but very clear for natives.

Heck, growing up in South America, I can tell within 3 words where a person comes from. They are all Spanish, but each area (not even country... as you can have different accents in different region in the same country)

As for English accent, I agree that it has something to do with the people one grows up speaking with.

I have a relatively strong accent ("Latino" by many of my native CDN friends ) but I speak a mix of Mandarin/English with my kids as an attempt to teach them Mandarin. Their first real encounter with English were both with born&bred caucasian Canadians and they have the EXACT accent from what I can tell. Even my son's classmate's mom thinks they sound perhaps too "white" (she's a 3rd gen CDN from India) to have a Chinese face. But that's at a cost that their Mandarin also sound white.

[hi-revs]

Thanks for everyone in sharing their experiences and thoughts towards my daycare question and learning English.

As my daughter is turning 1 in Sept, I'm going to start her with option 1; and will move her into a English dominant daycare just before her 3td birthday (if we get accepted into one).

I know growing up here in BC she will for sure learn English, but I want her to have proper English (grammar l, pronunciation etc)
I know lots of Canadian born people who sound like fobs because they grew up with other Chinese who prefers to speak in Chinese in their group of friends.
For me, I spoke Cantonese at home as a kid and went to Chinese school for many years. However, I hung around with other chinese who felt it was embarrassing to speak Cantonese in public, so Cantonese for me was only used at home, in chinese school, and wherever else its needed.
I want my daughter to have exposure to English like I did.

Luckily my wife doesnt have a fob accent. She was born here. But mainly hangout with other Chinese kids growing up, and mainly speaking canto. She tells me that when she got off school (elementary) she'd be excited to go home and watch TVB (shows (Chinese channel). Whereas I on the other hand watched YTV or whatever.

Regarding someone's question on the 2yr plus waitlist...
We actually just started looking into this several weeks ago and locked out with 3 options that are willing to take us this Sept.

Thanks again for everyone's input so far.
Feel free to share other stuff regarding daycares of general parenting styles in this thread, since my original question has been answered

[fliptuner]

Originally Posted by radioman

Day one of school shes gonna bust out, "Keep your eyes to yourself, radioman66. I'm too young, not KDM and you're here to sweep, not gawk. Esshoe"

Fixed

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

PS. I though you have to start looking for a daycare/school right when you find out you have a baby on the way since most daycare and school have a 2+ year waiting list?

This is almost exactly what happened to us. I "procrastinated" a bit when the wifey got preggers, and waited until we were ~6 months into the pregnancy when I started dropping names into a good number of good and well-reviewed daycare. Fast forward to 3 years later, and none of those places have available spaces yet. Places that offered "newborn" childcare called / emailed us back to check with us whether we are still looking for childcare because they'd have to move my baby from the "newborn" group to the "toddler" group (ie. basically children at 3+ yrs old). The situation is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Spoon

Looking at what's happening in Hong Kong, I feel that Cantonese will eventually be phased out and treated the same way. It'll be the previous generation's language, so I don't lose much sleep over my kids not being able to speak it. If the purpose of your children learning Cantonese is based solely on knowing your family roots, I understand. But based on utility, whether it's for your belief that it's beneficial for their future prospects or just to connect with a specific community, I'm curious why you're not opting for mandarin alone.

If utilitiy is the reason for learning additional languages, Spanish should be the one to go for, not any form of Chinese.

[Obsideon]

Side note; I have a friend that took their son in to a daycare run by Mainland China teachers. Dad is Hong Kong and mom is Taiwanese but now the son speaks Mandarin with a strong China dialect. Something to watch for if it's a concern for you.

[hi-revs]

Originally Posted by Obsideon

Side note; I have a friend that took their son in to a daycare run by Mainland China teachers. Dad is Hong Kong and mom is Taiwanese but now the son speaks Mandarin with a strong China dialect. Something to watch for if it's a concern for you.

This is exactly what I'm afraid of.

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by Traum

If utilitiy is the reason for learning additional languages, Spanish should be the one to go for, not any form of Chinese.

Really? I’m a a single language speaker. I even have a tough time with that one sometimes

In all honestly, Spanish would be my number 2 as I frequent Mexico for vacation, I love the language. But really? Useful?

In this day and age, I’d be putting my kids in some sort of Chinese language in a heart beat. Look where we live. I don’t see A huge population of Spanish speaking individuals moving in. Never-mind taking over the entire world. Lol

[Traum]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

Really? I’m a a single language speaker. I even have a tough time with that one sometimes

In all honestly, Spanish would be my number 2 as I frequent Mexico for vacation, I love the language. But really? Useful?

In this day and age, I’d be putting my kids in some sort of Chinese language in a heart beat. Look where we live. I don’t see A huge population of Spanish speaking individuals moving in. Never-mind taking over the entire world. Lol

The US is increasingly becoming more Hispanic / Spanish-speaking, and there aren't any signs this will slow any time soon. As a corollary to that, I noticed that the Lower Mainland has seen a larger population of Hispanics as well, although of course the size still seems smaller than Asians (Chinese / Filipino / Indians).

With the way Mainland China is heading, I don't really foresee it being all too successful of a country in the future. This may or may not affect the outflow of rich Chinese and/or their wealth into Vancouver / Canada. But as a rule, I don't consider it a good business strategy if your business if focused on the Chinese market, be it here locally in Vancouver, or with a view towards international trading with China. It is not a pleasant way to earn your profits.

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

I'd go with option 1.

She's going to learn English no matter what. It'll also save the trouble of going to Chinese school on Saturday (more family time).

We drop our daughter off at her grandma's on Monday morning and pick her up on Tuesday after work. We only want her speaking Cantonese with her. Wednesday to Friday she's in Montessori daycare, with all ethnicities. There's a French lady there that we instructed to only speak to her in French. Then on Saturday she has formal Chinese school. At some point I want her in a Mandarin class. Her godmother only speaks to her in Spanish lol.

You don't see your kid for a full 24hrs?

Kid will be able to get a job in the UN one day at this rate. Thought about French Immersion and exchange program to Geneva yet?

[Tapioca]

My kids have been going to daycare since about 14 months. They only speak English - at home and at daycare. Daycare and the logistics suck - costs, pick up and drop off, etc. However, we have parents who told my wife and I very early on that they would not take care of kids full time. Our daycare costs will be about 2000 per month in July. Getting licensed daycare is a problem in the city of Vancouver, but it's fine in the suburbs. You just have to prepared to pay a hefty fee if you want quality and licensed care for your little one(s).

I grew up with Cantonese in the background, but I never really got the hang of speaking it. I understand it today, but my kids will never learn the language. I would say that an accent holds you back personally and professionally, even if you were born here - it's something to think about for your own kids.