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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
they only haven't made a move on the island because US/Japan/SKorea/Philippines would be knocking on their door if they staged a military invasion
That is what I meant for forced respect.
China is only leaving Taiwan along because of all the international support, Taiwan’s own army and ofc Taiwan having successfully severed the umbilical cord to China for decades.
This is the only form of respect China is capable of giving.
Interesting to see how Hong Kong plays out. IMO honger will never be happy unless they have the type of democracy/governance they see in Taiwan.
it's impossible and that's why i don't know what the hell is the point of all this. End game will remain the same. Move out. If you cant take the CCP bullshit, just move the fuck out like so many families in China did. Im sure if you even have a meager little 500sqft condo in HK it'll yield into a richmond McMansion here.
Its not up to us living here in freedom land to dictate whether something is worth it base on the assumed endings.
All of us here are armchair general discussing this issue safe and far from the actual epicentre.
I was just in China not long ago and discussion of this issue is not done in public even though almost everybody I came across know this is happening not far from them. They all have their own opinions yet nobody wants say it.
One stop over in Hong Kong. Of course Everybody there also has an opinion about this and they are no afraid to voice it, whether it is for or against. You can hear people arguing amongst themselves, amongst strangers, even with customers. Although the city is tense you can tell this whole issue is important to the city and will likely affect generations of Hongers to come.
If they give up now, they might have caved to what we see as a futile fight. If they continues and this turns into a straight up revolution and god forbid lives are losed. Well Honger are the only one to blame for that, and whether it is worth it will be up to future generations to decide and to judge whether today actions is worth what they enjoy or not enjoy in the future/in their generations.
I am sure there was alot of naysayer back in US civil war days. And today, they celebrate independence days.
What is not posted here is the daily complaints from everyday Honger that neutral or even pro-CCP that just wants this to stop. Hong Kong at this moment still depend greatly on the CCP. Pork price has risen tenfold since the protest, CCP is already economically strangling HK and this protest is just giving them more reason to do so.
This is how many in Hong Kong continues to think, but I don't think it has to necessarily turn out that way. While Hong Kong imports over 90% of its food from non-Hong Kong sources -- including over 90% of its fresh beef, fresh pork, and fresh veggies from China -- as well as over 70% of its water from Guangdong, it does not necessarily have to operate like that. As an international hub and port, Hong Kong could just as easily source its food from anywhere around the world. The fresh stuff is imported from China only because it was done partly out of habit, but also partly out of the unspoken rule that the established suppliers all have Mainland Chinese ties, and China continues to want people in Hong Kong to think that Hong Kong's very existence depends on China. That is entirely false.
Two staple food in Hong Kong are rice and chicken. By and large, Hong Kong people actually overwhelmingly prefer and eat Thai rice. Hardly anyone eat Chinese rice because Chinese rice is considered to be of inferior quality. Normally, over 2/3 of the chicken that Hong Kong consumes are grown locally in Hong Kong. The industry does source their some of their eggs / infant chicks from China, but for the most part, the chicken that gets eaten in Hong Kong are grown in Hong Kong. As a matter of fact, during the avian flu epidemics, chicken farmers had repeatedly ask the HKSAR government to stop Chinese chicken imports to no avail. Then as a result of cross contamination, the Hong Kong chickens had to be killed as well when the city wide purge was ordered.
The high end foods are all imported from non-China countries. High grade beef from Japan, Korea, and the US. High grade seafood from Japan -- air flown in on a daily basis (that's why good Japanese food in Hong Kong is so ridiculously expensive). High end fruits from Japan, Korea, and SE Asia.
The sourcing of drinking water has been a ridiculous and on-going sticking point. The Chinese dependence exists only because the Chinese government is forcing the HKSAR gov to unconditionally purchase it at ridiculously expensive prices. I've read some newspaper comparisons before where Singpore also imports most of its drinking water from its neighbour (Malyasia), but they are paying prices that is something like 15x cheaper. In Hong Kong's case, desalination would also have been a viable choice, but the HKSAR gov refuses to explore its viability bcos China.
At the end of the day, as far as food is concerned, Hong Kong can just as easily source all of its current food from non-Chinese sources and continue to be sufficient. Many of the reasons this is not happening is purely political.
Another inconvenient truth is, China is a net importer of food as well, and has been for quite some time. Its self-sufficiency declined from 97% in 2001 to 86% in 2014. More recent data is difficult to come by, but estimates have ranged in the 60 - 70% as rural areas continue to urbanize.
I think it is fairly clear that what many -- likely even most -- Hong Kongers want is for China to honour the Sino-UK joint declaration and China's agreement of 1-country-2-system. China obviously would not want to concede control to anyone, including merely just Hong Kongers. IMO, it remains questionable whether China can succeed in retaining full control of Hong Kong the way they want. It would be naive to think that the US or much of the western world would altruistically support Hong Kong in its fight for democracy, but in the US' case, for example, they might really have some tangible incentives to ensure Hong Kong continues to retain some degree of autonomy.
I have probably said this before in the thread -- IMO, it would be wiser for China to realize that there are more benefits to allow for a partially autonomous Hong Kong to exist, instead of the falsely autonomous Hong Kong that we see now because the Western countries are finally starting to see through the pretense now. If China continues to tighten its grip on Hong Kong, the US would have a real interest in revoking the US - Hong Kong policy to stop (or slow) the technological and IP theft that is benefiting China. And if that happens, the EU would like try to ask for a similar deal with China as well. And then China would really be doomed on the technological front.
bbc showed anti-protester rallies going on too, and also ppl posting anti protester flyers around the city
also a anti china protester had weapons and molotovs ready for this weekend but was arrested
Yes there was an anti protester rally, bus loads of people came down from China to participate. I saw someone interfering in a BBC broadcast to call them fake news, because the pro-government people are really pushing a racist anti-western agenda. There was one idiotic pro-communist lawmaker who questioned this twitter guy who has been there from the beginning, saying he is giving signals to people to create violence. She is literally an idiot.
And yeah there's that bust of like 1KG of TNT-like explosives, which just happened to be in the same room as a bunch of pro-separatist information, pro-democracy pamphlets, and the iconic yellow helmets that have come to identify protesters. Funny how that all came together the night before today's protest, hmm?
Man it’s a shit show. Twitter showing protesters going back to Yuen long getting attacked by triads looking guys in white.
From the videos I've seen, they were attacking anyone on the MTR at the time, regardless of political affiliation. That included women, the elderly, and children.
Police conveniently arrived after the attacks ended.
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Last edited by CorneringArtist; 07-21-2019 at 11:58 AM.
Man it’s a shit show. Twitter showing protesters going back to Yuen long getting attacked by triads looking guys in white.
what? My friend was wearing black and he got attacked. He got a few stitches and that night he made the decision to leave hk; he will bring his family back.
There are many more videos capturing different beatings circulating on the Internet, but this one seems to have gone the most viral because of the simple impact that it carries -- you get a clear glimpse into what is happening in Hong Kong today. It is not a clip from a Hong Kong triad movie, but triad members were most definitely involved.
As a result of the on-going protests, the HKSAR (Hong Kong Special Administrative Region) government and HKPD (Hong Kong Police Department) have quietly agreed to have triad members in Yuen Long attack the general public. The result is what you see below, though it is only one of the many brutal scenes that took place last night.
The violent mob is dressed in white, and generally armed with sticks / clubs / wooden batons, although long butcher knives have also been seen on multiple occassions. Private messages have gone out to some Yuen Long residents prior to the July 21 date, advising the local residents to avoid going out after 12pm, and to dress in white if they must go out. On many occassions, the mob indiscriminately and severely beat on anyone not wearing their white tee / dark pants uniform -- including the elderly and at least one pregnant woman. Bloody injuries as well as blunt / trauma type of injuries were widely observed.
The general public has called the police for help on countless occasions, but the police have failed to show up until well over an hour later. 2 local detachments in the area have explicitly closed their doors and ignored those who came to the station to ask for help. And when the police have finally showed up and the general public was questioning the much delayed response, an inspector-grade officer in uniform defiantely told the public he does not need to keep track of time / response time, and physically gestured the angry public to physically hit him if they want to.
When a government has sunk as low as this, and resort to tactics as dirty as what we can see, there is absolutely no need to respect any of official decision makers. These decision makers, the most obvious of which include the HKCEO Carrie Lam and HKPD Chief Stephen Lo, deserves to rot in hell and forever have their names engraved in the history of shame.
I know the thugs are armed with blunt weapons, but its times like this when people would band together and fight back. If your going to get beat up, you might as well fight back, and if everyone fights back together, they might be able to overwhelm these thugs.
I'm not sure how or if FB embed works. but here goes:
The above message has been circulated amongst protesters. This is coming from people who work internally in government:
1。林氏在星期初的政府高層早禱會已經強烈表明，不會「撒回」亦不會再道歉、亦不會成立獨立調查委員。會上 要求各局長在各自的政策範疇「出力」，所以有步署地逐日由黃緯倫出嚟講明日大嶼，到陳肇始講流感，再到陳帆 講沙中線，未來都會有不同的局長出來霸佔新聞版面，溝淡721的壓力
Carrie Lam has stated in their meetings that the bill will NOT be retracted, and will not apologize for anything that has happened. There will be no independent investigations. They will have top officials announce unrelated news and developments in order to push any news about extradition bill and protests and violence downwards in terms of importance.。
2。x環已經出手，大量水軍打輿論戰，所以各大論壇facebook已經充斥大量打手，今次顧用的是本地打 手，人數幾百人。另外，潛伏的「鬼」亦會出動主力抹黑泛民，務求打散整體號召力，以及為建制在即將舉行的區 選減壓。
The government will be hiring internet professionals to try to fight any dissonance in FB and forums. This will be numbering in the hundreds. They will also have people join protestors and the opposition party to try and render them less effective. This is to help reduce competition in the upcoming district elections.
3。林氏受到警察幾大工會的強大壓力，而盧偉聰在內部會議上亦直言自己飽受評擊。因此，721會採用類似7 1升旗的部署，利用加大碼水馬圍封主要建築物，警方會在水馬後布防，以減少警民雙方的衝突機會，目的係減少 警察與示威者衝突的機會，保住重要建築物。另外，亦會視情況考慮用水炮車噴射顏色液體，以阻嚇 示威人士。
The police unions applied a lot of pressure on the government, and the head of police (Stephen Lo) also exclaimed that he has been hearing many complaints from many different faucets. For 721, the police will employ XL water fences (I'm guessing the plastic fences with water in them) to prevent protesters from having direct confrontation with front line police. They will also use dyed liquids in their water cannons to deter protesters.
4。「有關方面」已安排為數千人的不明人士，代替警察應付勇武派的衝擊，在遊行中途率先發起口角，將衝突轉 移到勇武與愛港人士，警察善後挽回民意。有人曾經反對但無能為力。
"Associated groups" have arranged for thousands of anonymous people to challenge and attack protestors, so police will not have to confront protestors. There were oppositions to this idea, but were shot down.
5。至於各區遊行及連儂牆，強力部門的地區工作部已會見地區人士組織及建制派，利用他們地區網絡處理，元朗 就係其中一個例子，利用地區人士用自己的方式去令遊行無法進行。其他地區如大埔、北角亦將跟隨。另外，各部 門如消防、運輸署會向警方出信，對各區的遊行表示憂慮，作為警方不批不反對通知書的理據，因此警方會拖延各 區的不反對通知書審批
Pro-government groups will be using their own methods to prevent any protests from happening. What happened at the Lennon wall in Yuen Long was an example of what pro-governemnt groups are doing. The police have also asked the department of transportation and fire departments to send letters as reasons to deny any permits for gatherings, citing safety, etc.
I honestly did not believe that this was happening, I thought it was some one trying to drum up support for the protestors. #4 seemed especially egregious. But seeing what happened with the triad attacking people, and the lame responses from the police, I've lost faith in the HK government's ability to do the right thing and make this go away peacefully.
PS: It was shared in Chinese, I added in the translations myself, so please bear with me if it maybe a little off.
I don't even know what to think now. It's getting worse and worse. The HK Police is literally letting gang members run free and attack people. Today they are saying that there were "rival gangs" fighting in Yuen Long. They claimed that they went looking but couldn't find any weapons.
Hong Kong is falling apart. If you wondered "how bad can it be?" well it's really bad. This isn't a "put your head down and go about your life and make lots of money"... Lots of innocent people were "putting their heads down" and got attacked.
As for fighting back and using protesters overwhelming numbers, what do you think was the intent of the government getting these thugs to do this? Every single thing is to try to get the protesters to look violent. It's escalated every week. But they still haven't fought back with violence.
I don't even know what to think now. It's getting worse and worse. The HK Police is literally letting gang members run free and attack people. Today they are saying that there were "rival gangs" fighting in Yuen Long.
Hong Kong is falling apart. If you wondered "how bad can it be?" well it's really bad. This isn't a "put your head down and go about your life and make lots of money"... Lots of innocent people were "putting their heads down" and got attacked.
As for fighting back and using protesters overwhelming numbers, what do you think was the intent of the government getting these thugs to do this? Every single thing is to try to get the protesters to look violent. It's escalated every week. But they still haven't fought back with violence.
The protestors can't really fight back.
Only way I see this stopping is if the triads hurt the wrong person. They are indiscriminately attacking anyone and everyone. It'll take an important government official's family/friend to get hurt before this will stop.
Only way I see this stopping is if the triads hurt the wrong person. They are indiscriminately attacking anyone and everyone. It'll take an important government official's family/friend to get hurt before this will stop.
Not really. If that person's family/friend got hurt, the rest of the govt will just say well they shouldn't have been there.
One person getting hurt isn't going to matter to these people, they have a goal in mind, and there will be collateral damage.
If you watch one of the videos; one of the bald police officer (at night time, while waiting for the police bus to pick them up) was being SUPER calm being interviewed by all these "reporter" (which is literally everyone with an iphone; as there are tons of fake "reporter" badges being sold online now).
It's very difficult when you get TONS of people swarming you asking you questions.
"Why are you not doing your job and making an arrest"
"You say you don't know.... how are you call yourself a cop"
"Is that how you do things... Why haven't your team providing support to the innocent"
ANY NORMAL human being would LOVE to give them their piece of mind.
I don't care what professional training you have had in cadets / academy to control your temper...
It's like being GRILLED by your MOTHER FOOKING GF/BF....Rapid firing questions you want to defend and falcon punch that bitch / a-hole but you just can't...
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