Hong Kong extradition protests

[Hondaracer]

Not a grave stone! What is the world coming to..

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Richmond .... why just stop at one burb, why not try to influence all of BC mayors & municipalities?

Union of BC municipalies (UBCM) said, Yes, we'll take China's money, thanks.
https://theprovince.com/news/bc-poli...-at-convention

They fucking sold out for $6000. Jesus christ

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by threezero

Radicals are people that advocate violence and extreme measure to achieve their purpose.

You can support either side without being a radical.

Freedom of speech and democracy means anybody should be able to voice their own opinions and have their own political belief.

LOL if your "political beliefs" advocate for tyranny, violence, mind control, spying, locking up people for their race, I don't care you you put it. You're disturbed if you want Hong Kong to be ruled that way. Yes, you have freedom of speech, I get it, but that also gives you the freedom to be wrong, and others have the freedom to call you out on it.

I get that you're generally pragmatic about it, and that's fine. I'm not singling you out. China is powerful, I can see why most people would just give in to them if they can't leave. But to SUPPORT these things they do, no, you're a radical if you already know better since you DO live in a country that allows free thought and liberty, and STILL support tyranny.. nope, sorry, I disagree. Mainland citizens I can't blame, since they get brainwashed since the day they're born. Most just don't know any better, but people like you should.

[twitchyzero]

calling pro-Beijing radicals is no different than calling anti-Beijing separatists

blanket labels like that need to get dropped if we're having an open and mature dialogue

it's almost never black and white

you can partially agree with one JTrudeau policy or two but think the rest are a joke...doesn't make you a leftist snowflake

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

calling pro-Beijing radicals is no different than calling anti-Beijing separatists

blanket labels like that need to get dropped if we're having an open and mature dialogue

it's almost never black and white

you can partially agree with one JTrudeau policy or two but think the rest are a joke...doesn't make you a leftist snowflake

If you're going to be pro-Beijing, you need to defend their radical policies. ALL OF THEM. Unlike western politics, where there are many steps to make a law, this shit comes as a whole package. Trudeau didn't recently change the constitution to give himself unlimited and perpetual power; Xi did

The more I think of it, the more ridiculous it is to argue against what I'm saying here.... You're supporting an all-powerful tyrannical regime which can rule with 100% authority, and uses violent force when needed... You can LIKE some of their policies if you want, sure, but if you SUPPORT them, you're a radical. Maybe you just don't know it.

[trd2343]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

LOL if your "political beliefs" advocate for tyranny, violence, mind control, spying, locking up people for their race, I don't care you you put it. You're disturbed if you want Hong Kong to be ruled that way. Yes, you have freedom of speech, I get it, but that also gives you the freedom to be wrong, and others have the freedom to call you out on it.

I get that you're generally pragmatic about it, and that's fine. I'm not singling you out. China is powerful, I can see why most people would just give in to them if they can't leave. But to SUPPORT these things they do, no, you're a radical if you already know better since you DO live in a country that allows free thought and liberty, and STILL support tyranny.. nope, sorry, I disagree. Mainland citizens I can't blame, since they get brainwashed since the day they're born. Most just don't know any better, but people like you should.

I apologize for you singling you out, but I'm not really sorry.

Throughout this whole thread, I would describe you as a general who's leading an Allies army of 10 solider against the entire army of Hitler. You give an inspiring pep talk about how evil Hitler is and how he must be stopped at all cost, or the world is doomed. You are absolutely correct in every sense.

But a soldier asks, what's the game plan? How are we going to defeat the entire army? You answered, "Hitler is evil, just go fuck him up." "So there's no game plan?" "Hitler is evil, just go straight at him." "LIke just us 10 go charge at the entire army?" "Hitler is evil, yes, and if you die, it's for a good cause"

If any of the 10 soldier even show the slightest fear of going into battle, bam, you shoot him. Why? Because he's scared, and being scared must mean he's part of the Nazis.

Like seriously, look at all this shit, what the fuck is going on? You guys think you've won a battle by making Pooh bear take back the bill and make him lose face? If you really know anything about losing face, you would know that if you shame someone who cares about face as much as Pooh bear, unless he doesn't have the ability to, he will come back with a revengence and fuck you up so bad you'll regret you made him lose face. He's fucking Hong Kong with the triads and police as we speak.

At this point, it doesn't even matter who paid the traids to stir shit. The bill was paused (not stopped yet) and no one's happy (or the media pushed it down). The last few pages of this thread has been about the triads, that even I have forgottten what this protest is about. Even I feel tired waking up every morning and turning on the TV to see what area the triads is going to fuck up next. I can't even imagine how people in Hong Kong are feeling. EVEN, even if the bill was stopped, you looked back at this several years later, and I can gurantee that people [the mass I mean] (or at least media) will portray [I meant remember] this as the chaos that the protest has caused, not what it has won.

So what if you know that the triads are paid by China, or that there are some agents within the protesters that are purposedly causing trouble? You can have all the evidence in the world, and government wouldn't do anything about it.

Fuck. This isn't the outcome you guys were expecting right? What exactly did you guys see happening?

I feel the better discussion is, is CCP as big and powerful as they look right now, or there is a way of removing them from power?

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Trudeau didn't recently change the constitution to give himself unlimited and perpetual power; Xi did

Actually ... Trudeau (and the ruling Liberals) did act like he/they had perpetual and unlimited power (Jody/Jane/SNC Lavalin/Vice admiral Norman).

So yah it's good that shit never happens when there is democracy and free speech, right? Don't know how else to put it, the answer to China is not democracy and free speech.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by trd2343

I apologize for you singling you out, but I'm not really sorry.

Throughout this whole thread, I would describe you as a general who's leading an Allies army of 10 solider against the entire army of Hitler. You give an inspiring pep talk about how evil Hitler is and how he must be stopped at all cost, or the world is doomed. You are absolutely correct in every sense.

But a soldier asks, what's the game plan? How are we going to defeat the entire army? You answered, "Hitler is evil, just go fuck him up." "So there's no game plan?" "Hitler is evil, just go straight at him." "LIke just us 10 go charge at the entire army?" "Hitler is evil, yes, and if you die, it's for a good cause"

If any of the 10 soldier even show the slightest fear of going into battle, bam, you shoot him. Why? Because he's scared, and being scared must mean he's part of the Nazis.

Like seriously, look at all this shit, what the fuck is going on? You guys think you've won a battle by making Pooh bear take back the bill and make him lose face? If you really know anything about losing face, you would know that if you shame someone who cares about face as much as Pooh bear, unless he doesn't have the ability to, he will come back with a revengence and fuck you up so bad you'll regret you made him lose face. He's fucking Hong Kong with the triads and police as we speak.

At this point, it doesn't even matter who paid the traids to stir shit. The bill was paused (not stopped yet) and no one's happy (or the media pushed it down). The last few pages of this thread has been about the triads, that even I have forgottten what this protest is about. Even I feel tired waking up every morning and turning on the TV to see what area the triads is going to fuck up next. I can't even imagine how people in Hong Kong are feeling. EVEN, even if the bill was stopped, you looked back at this several years later, and I can gurantee that people [the mass I mean] (or at least media) will portray [I meant remember] this as the chaos that the protest has caused, not what it has won.

So what if you know that the triads are paid by China, or that there are some agents within the protesters that are purposedly causing trouble? You can have all the evidence in the world, and government wouldn't do anything about it.

Fuck. This isn't the outcome you guys were expecting right? What exactly did you guys see happening?

I feel the better discussion is, is CCP as big and powerful as they look right now, or there is a way of removing them from power?

I can't speak for everyone, and some people are more extreme or militant than others, but I think the general goal for now is to change the government to work the way that was promised in the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and Hong Kong Basic Law. Nobody is looking to overthrow the communists in China, just keep them from meddling in Hong Kong. This isn't an unrealistic goal, trying to get the communists to finally live up to something they agreed upon, written into law. If they continue to break their promises, so be it, but it's not right for citizens (and governments around the world) to sit idly by and not put pressure on them. If they think they can get away with anything, they will, and we saw how that turned out in the 40's.

I'm not really supporting any side in any way, just posting what's going on, and voicing my opinions on the matter. You can feel free to disagree, and if you think "keeping your head down" and only worry about "making money" is what everyone should do, then fine.. I disagree

[Traum]

Originally Posted by trd2343

Fuck. This isn't the outcome you guys were expecting right? What exactly did you guys see happening?

I feel the better discussion is, is CCP as big and powerful as they look right now, or there is a way of removing them from power?

If there is anything that the series of events in Hong Kong have proven -- nothing can be predicted in the world of politics. Time after time, the HKSAR administration as well as the HKPD have thoroughly surprised me with their stupidity and shamelessness. And the youths in Hong Kong have continued to be as inspriation, creative, and unbelievably courageous in their defiance towards the HKSAR gov, HKPD, and CCP. There is absolutely no way to tell how things will end, and as an outsider, I can only offer my prayers and support for Hong Kong from afar. (I am little more than a useless middle aged dude afterall...)

I agree with SkinnyPupp that the general direction is to push for CCP and its proxy in HKSAR gov to honour the Sino-British Joint Declaration, as well as for the HKSAR and the HKPD to respect the law -- both the Basic Law (ie. HK's mini constitution) as well as the HK rule of law. All of these elements have been severely lacking from what we can see.

[6793026]

Originally Posted by Traum

I agree with SkinnyPupp that the general direction is to push for CCP and its proxy in HKSAR gov to honour the Sino-British Joint Declaration, as well as for the HKSAR and the HKPD to respect the law -- both the Basic Law (ie. HK's mini constitution) as well as the HK rule of law.

I can't see this ever from happening. Honouring the Sino-British Joint Declaration blah blah blah, is just wishful thinking.

Was the HK extradition bill conflicting with the Sino-B Joint declaration? I don't think so.

What people feared are the grey area of demarcation between the legal systems & jurisdiction of courts controlled by China. These are speculations and fear, however, were not ever in conflict with the declaration.

PS: "The socialist system of PRC would not be practiced in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong's previous capitalist system and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years until 2047."

[Traum]

Originally Posted by 6793026

I can't see this ever from happening. Honouring the Sino-British Joint Declaration blah blah blah, is just wishful thinking.

You are probably correct that on practical terms, asking China to honour their internaiontally recognized legal binding agreement with the UK is wishful thinking. Like all bargaining situations, however, you start with something that is reasonable, and then you decide how much you can give up in the bargaining negotiations. Perhaps you would stand firm, or perhaps you would give a little.

Was the HK extradition bill conflicting with the Sino-B Joint declaration? I don't think so.

What people feared are the grey area of demarcation between the legal systems & jurisdiction of courts controlled by China. These are speculations and fear, however, were not ever in conflict with the declaration.

PS: "The socialist system of PRC would not be practiced in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong's previous capitalist system and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years until 2047."

When you say this, I am really not sure whether you are genuinely thinking that way, or whether you are just trolling. I will assume that you genuinely think the HK extradition bill does not conflict with the Joint Declaration even though I am skeptical about the assumption.

Including China in the extradition bill as an extradition destination is clearly at odds with the Joint Declaration. The Joint Declaration is supposed to guarantee Hong Kong a a high degree of autonomy except for foreign and defence affairs. Along with its own executive and legislative power, Hong Kong is also supposed to enjoy its own independent judicial power. Should China be included in the extradition bill as a destination, however, it effectively invalidates Hong Kong's independent judicial power as outlined in the Joint Declaration. Hong Kong's courts would have no legal right to cross examine whatever evidence provided by China as the basis for extradition. The HK court can only decide whether the "evidence" submitted by China provides for a strong enough case to have the requested person extradicted to China for trial. So how real are those "evidence" that China would provide? And what kind of "trials" are we going to see in China? The answers are obvious here.

[trd2343]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I can't speak for everyone, and some people are more extreme or militant than others, but I think the general goal for now is to change the government to work the way that was promised in the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and Hong Kong Basic Law. Nobody is looking to overthrow the communists in China, just keep them from meddling in Hong Kong. This isn't an unrealistic goal, trying to get the communists to finally live up to something they agreed upon, written into law. If they continue to break their promises, so be it, but it's not right for citizens (and governments around the world) to sit idly by and not put pressure on them. If they think they can get away with anything, they will, and we saw how that turned out in the 40's.

I'm not really supporting any side in any way, just posting what's going on, and voicing my opinions on the matter. You can feel free to disagree, and if you think "keeping your head down" and only worry about "making money" is what everyone should do, then fine.. I disagree

But won't overthrowing CCP seem more realistic/logical than asking them to live up to their words? I mean, you named it, they are beyond just liars. If I understand the declaration correctly, it literally means wait 50 years, then China can do whatever they want right? They have 25 years left, is there any hope in the horizon that maybe CCP wouldn't last these 25 years?

Maybe the protest intention was for a peaceful protest and negotiation, but obviously it got out of hand, and China does all it can to display that this was no peaceful protest at all, and their use of violence is warranted, at least to the outside world.

It is probably wishful thinking to have CCP play nice for the next 25 years, or even any foreign state to intervene in this, but it's also hard not to resent this and wish something can be done.

I also think you're getting some of my words mixed up. When I said keeping head down, it was to make ends meet and make enough money. Not to make enough money to buy the next Omega watch or take the next luxurious trip. But to be able to have a family, send kids to school, daycare, pay for food, enough to pay for mortgage that I wouldn't be jeopardizing my retirement funds. I don't have any stats and correct me if I'm wrong, but I dare say more than half of people living in HK basically slaving away for these things. It's definitely by far a lot better than other parts of the world. But if you compare it to all the glamour of HK that you see on the outside, it's pretty sad. I maybe reaching a bit here, but the general sentiment I get from friends in HK is, get a job, get a place, and your entire life will be to pay that off.

And to that end, I think the future of (youth in) HK goes beyond just freedom and democracy.

[twdm]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

calling pro-Beijing radicals is no different than calling anti-Beijing separatists

blanket labels like that need to get dropped if we're having an open and mature dialogue

it's almost never black and white

you can partially agree with one JTrudeau policy or two but think the rest are a joke...doesn't make you a leftist snowflake

Uhh except for the part where if you support beijing then you better fucking support everything they do or they'll make up fake trumped up corruption charges to send you to the gulags.

The protests were never 100% about beijing. It was about the fact the government doesnt give a shit about the well being of it's inhabitants eventhough they've voiced their concerns time and time again. We've gone through multiple CEs who are supposed to be responsible to BJ AND Hong Kong, but the last two seems to have forgotten about their second job. Not only that, to prevent citizens from achieving positive changes, they've used every dirty trick in the book to prevent the citizens from having a say in their government eventhough they are not supposed to interfere within Hong Kong.

[fetched]

Some of you are so naive....your comments sound like quotes from Trumps favorite show.....democracy is just a more transparent process to pick the same pre-defined, daddy connection, privileges individuals that were destined for those roles, you’re just the puppet that believes that vote do count....

But don’t take it from me..I’m just a China man that is brainwashed and don’t know any better. Even less than some that either haven’t even stepped in China or HK before...or those that have and complains because HK is anyway shitty and blames it on China...

Still waiting for real protestors here on RS to post some live actions on the streets...

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by fetched

Some of you are so naive....your comments sound like quotes from Trumps favorite show.....democracy is just a more transparent process to pick the same pre-defined, daddy connection, privileges individuals that were destined for those roles, you’re just the puppet that believes that vote do count....

But don’t take it from me..I’m just a China man that is brainwashed and don’t know any better. Even less than some that either haven’t even stepped in China or HK before...or those that have and complains because HK is anyway shitty and blames it on China...

Still waiting for real protestors here on RS to post some live actions on the streets...

If you love China so much maybe you should never come to Canada in the first place. You are an adult now so why not hop on a plane, go back to China and live there and never come back to Canada. Clearly Canada is not the right place for you since you don't care about your freedom, and love to rule by a columnist party.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by twdm

Uhh except for the part where if you support beijing then you better fucking support everything they do or they'll make up fake trumped up corruption charges to send you to the gulags.

The protests were never 100% about beijing. It was about the fact the government doesnt give a shit about the well being of it's inhabitants eventhough they've voiced their concerns time and time again. We've gone through multiple CEs who are supposed to be responsible to BJ AND Hong Kong, but the last two seems to have forgotten about their second job. Not only that, to prevent citizens from achieving positive changes, they've used every dirty trick in the book to prevent the citizens from having a say in their government eventhough they are not supposed to interfere within Hong Kong.

i wish i could thank you 1000x for this.

[trd2343]

Originally Posted by twdm

Uhh except for the part where if you support beijing then you better fucking support everything they do or they'll make up fake trumped up corruption charges to send you to the gulags.

The protests were never 100% about beijing. It was about the fact the government doesnt give a shit about the well being of it's inhabitants eventhough they've voiced their concerns time and time again. We've gone through multiple CEs who are supposed to be responsible to BJ AND Hong Kong, but the last two seems to have forgotten about their second job. Not only that, to prevent citizens from achieving positive changes, they've used every dirty trick in the book to prevent the citizens from having a say in their government eventhough they are not supposed to interfere within Hong Kong.

But how is it not 100% about Beijing? When we say Beijing, we are referring to the China government, CCP, the one and only party in governing China right?

I mean wasn't the whole protest more than just about the government making changes earlier than they promised, but also, the specific (tyrannical) changes that they want to implement? Isn't this ALL about Beijing then?

Like the sentiment I get from some of you is that HK is doomed under China, and if anything, maybe wish HK can declare some sort of independence like Taiwan.

All of a sudden, it's like, nah fam, it's not 100% about Beijing, we're actually kind of ok with them, we just want them to play nice and respect us.

This whole ordeal, at its peak of 200k citizens, is merely a message to ask China to keep their words and not make any changes till 2047?

[EmperorIS]

Originally Posted by fetched

Some of you are so naive....your comments sound like quotes from Trumps favorite show.....democracy is just a more transparent process to pick the same pre-defined, daddy connection, privileges individuals that were destined for those roles, you’re just the puppet that believes that vote do count....

But don’t take it from me..I’m just a China man that is brainwashed and don’t know any better. Even less than some that either haven’t even stepped in China or HK before...or those that have and complains because HK is anyway shitty and blames it on China...

Still waiting for real protestors here on RS to post some live actions on the streets...

You are forgetting that the very action of you posting criticism of the type of government of the of the country you currently live in without the fear of any repercussion is the sole difference between China and any democratic country.

What you are referring to is the corruption of the people, not the system.

[SnK1800]

Originally Posted by trd2343

But how is it not 100% about Beijing? When we say Beijing, we are referring to the China government, CCP, the one and only party in governing China right?

I mean wasn't the whole protest more than just about the government making changes earlier than they promised, but also, the specific (tyrannical) changes that they want to implement? Isn't this ALL about Beijing then?

Like the sentiment I get from some of you is that HK is doomed under China, and if anything, maybe wish HK can declare some sort of independence like Taiwan.

All of a sudden, it's like, nah fam, it's not 100% about Beijing, we're actually kind of ok with them, we just want them to play nice and respect us.

This whole ordeal, at its peak of 200k citizens, is merely a message to ask China to keep their words and not make any changes till 2047?

2 million citizens. And yes, the protest wasn't 100% about Beijing, it's about the 5 demands that the government must fulfill, the call for a complete withdrawal of the bill is only 1 of the 5.
The rest are : the withdrawal of the “riot” characterization of the June 12 protests, the unconditional release of all arrested protesters, the formation of an independent commission of inquiry into police behavior, as well as universal suffrage.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

If you're going to be pro-Beijing, you need to defend their radical policies. ALL OF THEM. Unlike western politics, where there are many steps to make a law, this shit comes as a whole package. Trudeau didn't recently change the constitution to give himself unlimited and perpetual power; Xi did

You're supporting an all-powerful tyrannical regime which can rule with 100% authority, and uses violent force when needed... You can LIKE some of their policies if you want, sure, but if you SUPPORT them, you're a radical. Maybe you just don't know it.

why is it all or none?

because Canadians want a publicly-funded KM pipeline? did we get to vote on that? did ottawa take thorough consultations or put billions of taxpayer dollars with one pen stroke?

didn't Harper change our government's official title?

maybe living in China's shadow for some time now has made you believe that Western entitites/govt are near-flawless...come back and live in vancouver and you might quickly remember we've got problems too

Originally Posted by twdm

Uhh except for the part where if you support beijing then you better fucking support everything they do or they'll make up fake trumped up corruption charges to send you to the gulags.

because 'you've got a point there'/understand/agree/support are all the same

if I dont mind Trump admin's Asia policy, does that mean I hate migrants?

if I agree with Putin that America should stop butting in every corner of earth, does that mean i'm a staunch homophobe?

if I got a kick out of China's minister calling the Canadian govt naive thinking diplomacy will work on communists, does that mean i support organ harvesting?

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

why is it all or none?

because Canadians want a publicly-funded KM pipeline? did we get to vote on that? did ottawa take thorough consultations or put billions of taxpayer dollars with one pen stroke?

didn't Harper change our government's official title?

maybe living in China's shadow for some time now has made you believe that Western entitites/govt are near-flawless...come back and live in vancouver and you might quickly remember we've got problems too



because 'you've got a point there'/understand/agree/support are all the same

if I dont mind Trump admin's Asia policy, does that mean I hate migrants?

if I agree with Putin that America should stop butting in every corner of earth, does that mean i'm a staunch homophobe?

if I got a kick out of China's minister calling the Canadian govt naive thinking diplomacy will work on communists, does that mean i support organ harvesting?

There are issue with Western gov for sure but hey at least we won't get lock up in some remote jail cut off from all communication, beaten, put into boot camp for reeducation just coz we posted/say something poo bear doesn't like or we simply protest that a chemical plant is being built next to our home. Or you know we simply enjoy eating food that's safe.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by fetched

Some of you are so naive....your comments sound like quotes from Trumps favorite show.....democracy is just a more transparent process to pick the same pre-defined, daddy connection, privileges individuals that were destined for those roles, you’re just the puppet that believes that vote do count....

But don’t take it from me..I’m just a China man that is brainwashed and don’t know any better. Even less than some that either haven’t even stepped in China or HK before...or those that have and complains because HK is anyway shitty and blames it on China...

Still waiting for real protestors here on RS to post some live actions on the streets...

For a moment I thought China's 50cents is coming to RS!

Seriously, no matter how you want to paint it, democracy is in NO FUCKING WAY remotely the same to the authoritarian system that China is under now. In democracy... maybe all candidates are shit... but at least you have that slight choice of which shit to eat.

China... or let me rephrase it better, CCP is only interested in one thing and one thing only, stay in power. They don't want a slight chance to challenge that. They don't fucking care about its citizens. They only keep them as they are now because that's THE way to maintain control over. The day they discover a way to prevent its citizens to overthrow them ever, they wouldn't care about them either.

The way I see what it's going on in HK is that China will somehow force it to end. No doubt about it. What people in HK can do is to either suck it up and live with it or fight at all cost and hoping international support will change things (with UK being the most likely candidate given the Sino-UK accord).

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Hehe

For a moment I thought China's 50cents is coming to RS!

Seriously, no matter how you want to paint it, democracy is in NO FUCKING WAY remotely the same to the authoritarian system that China is under now. In democracy... maybe all candidates are shit... but at least you have that slight choice of which shit to eat.

China... or let me rephrase it better, CCP is only interested in one thing and one thing only, stay in power. They don't want a slight chance to challenge that. They don't fucking care about its citizens. They only keep them as they are now because that's THE way to maintain control over. The day they discover a way to prevent its citizens to overthrow them ever, they wouldn't care about them either.

The way I see what it's going on in HK is that China will somehow force it to end. No doubt about it. What people in HK can do is to either suck it up and live with it or fight at all cost and hoping international support will change things (with UK being the most likely candidate given the Sino-UK accord).

UK have it's own shit to take care off now so it doesn't really have time to deal with it. Also I don't think they really want to piss off China with the way the country is now. Most likely it will be US to stir something up.

[SkinnyPupp]

UK kind of has to make themselves involved... They fucked over pretty much the entire world over the last 2 centuries, and they can't turn a blind eye to every mess they left behind. This is the one time they tried to "do it right" (unfortunately they had to deal with the CCP and not the KMT) and they got fucked over. If they have any power on the world stage at all, they have to try to put it to use.

[Traum]

Realistically, I think the only country that might actually put forward some sort of meaningful pressure on China to hold back on its meddling in Hong Kong would be a Trump-led USA, but they are not really doing this out of the goodness of their heart, nor are they doing this to help Hong Kong. They might just do this solely in the US' best interest. And because the goal is to do something that results in what Trump thinks is the US' best interest, it may or may not happen at all. It all depends on how badly Trump can pressure China into caving into the US' demand.

In other words, no one should expect any country to help Hong Kong in any meaningful and practical manner.