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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
This thread isn't specifically about democracy vs communism or anything else. Debate that some other time. This is all about a specific regime, a specific puppet government of that regime, and a specific police force.
This thread isn't specifically about democracy vs communism or anything else. Debate that some other time. This is all about a specific regime, a specific puppet government of that regime, and a specific police force.
Sorry, I thought that was the root cause of the protests? No?
I see ... you just want to broadcast white shirts vs. black shirts vs. HK police incidents.
Sorry, I thought that was the root cause of the protests? No?
I see ... you just want to broadcast white shirts vs. black shirts vs. HK police incidents.
I know you don't think that, so from now on I will just regard your posts as troll attempts. I'm not going to ban you from the thread, but I'm not going to respond anymore.
Here are 2 related video clips on the Yuen Long protest in chronological order. The first one is from RFA -- Radio Free Asia, a private, nonprofit international broadcasting corporation that receives funding from a grant by the U.S. Agency for Global Media, an independent agency of the United States government.
This second clip is from CNN, and chronologically follows the immediate aftermath of the clash from the first clip. It focuses on 2 parts -- the initial aftermath of the riot police charge, as well as a subsequent summary of the entire situation that has lead to the Yuen Long protests:
For those who are interested in the bigger picture and how the month-long protests have evolved, the 2nd CNN reporter has done a really good summary of how things have come to the state that it is in now.
Yeah I just watched that, and it's a good quick summary of how things have gotten to where they are now.
The police saying they couldn't make it to Yuen Long because they were focusing on protests in Central... that's literally disgusting. They are victim blaming, making it more obvious that they were in on the whole thing
Or at least someone in charge was, we should stop using "they" for the police, as there are good and bad people in there. You can even see one cop in that CNN video grab another who was trying to hit someone with his club.
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It makes sense that police forces were stretched thin though, due to deployment to the protest areas... And that's all that matters, that it makes sense to the average listener domestic and abroad
It makes sense that police forces were stretched thin though, due to deployment to the protest areas... And that's all that matters, that it makes sense to the average listener domestic and abroad
No competent police commander would stretch their forces that thin, especially when protesters have shown there's no need to control them so tightly. If anything, less police presence is needed. As we saw at the airport protest, if they are left alone, they will go, protest, and leave the area eventually. The aftermath of that protest didn't leave a single piece of paper on the ground. You'd never know there were thousands of people there all day. Also police were in the area, some showed up, saw the white shirts beating on people, then left. This was the first footage that came out that day.
A Yuen Long District Councillor later revealed that he had contacted the Police on the morning of 21 July about the threat of attacks in Yuen Long and that the Police had assured him that they already had “a plan” in place to handle the situation.
Another district councillor was spotted that night, wearing a white shirt as part of that group. So yeah, there's more than a few lawmakers in HK with ties to both triads and beijing.
So they knew about the impending threats, and literally chose to ignore it. They later victim blamed the protesters, saying they shouldn't have been there in the first place. This points directly towards collusion or at least compliance. Either way, they have to answer for it somehow.
me: hey they are protesting in yuen long
her: that place is a shithole, nobody goes there ! who cares
me: hey they are protesting at the airport
her: WTF!? this is serious now.
hahhaha
i guess it'll only hit home (literally) once it reaches victoria peak and they invade her home.
a few thousand at the airport Thursday. Police didn't show up, no violence or mess to clean up
280K at Yuen Long Friday, police immediately started firing tear gas, filling residents homes with smoke. When people went to the station to leave, police charged them from behind, beating random people, making few arrests. This is what you saw on the CNN footage.
Today in admiralty makes 3 days in a row of large scale protests. Another probably 200-300K showed up. The demands haven't changed. Police haven't started attacking yet, so it's going smoothly (crosses fingers)
Only response so far is the CE "condemning violence". I mean that would be nice if she condemned the violence the police are using, but either way she's useless
These are the guys that will ultimately sink this whole shabang when the PLA comes rolling in. They should have stopped after they halted the extradition treaty. Everything else is just hurting Hong Kong.
There are crazy fucks in any group, including protesters, including police, including lawmakers. It doesn't mean the good people of Hong Kong should just give up
There are crazy fucks in any group, including protesters, including police, including lawmakers. It doesn't mean the good people of Hong Kong should just give up
But would you agree that this protest is starting to go out of hand?
Sure, it wouldn't surprise me one bit that the triads hit and violent protesters are paid off by the government to make the protesters look bad.
But it is equally plausible that even within the protesters themselves, not everyone see eye to eye as to how the protest should run. Maybe the majority believe in a peaceful protest, and at the same time, I'm sure there are those who believe they need violence to send a message.
So when things get out of hand, who's going to be held liable?
Good people shouldn't give up. But this protest was or has become so disorganized that the government (and the bad apples within the protesters) are taking advantage of it and ruining it for all the good people.
But would you agree that this protest is starting to go out of hand?
Sure, it wouldn't surprise me one bit that the triads hit and violent protesters are paid off by the government to make the protesters look bad.
But it is equally plausible that even within the protesters themselves, not everyone see eye to eye as to how the protest should run. Maybe the majority believe in a peaceful protest, and at the same time, I'm sure there are those who believe they need violence to send a message.
So when things get out of hand, who's going to be held liable?
Good people shouldn't give up. But this protest was or has become so disorganized that the government (and the bad apples within the protesters) are taking advantage of it and ruining it for all the good people.
So far it's been the same thing every time - protests are peaceful, the cops or triad thugs show up and cause violence and chaos. Government "condemns violence". Repeat.
So since nothing has changed, I can't say "things are starting to get out of hand". The government is definitely trying to force things to get out of hand, but so far it's been about the same. Except now we have a picture of someone with an arrow, and who knows, maybe he's a cop playing agent provocateur.. lol we've already seen that happen several times so I can't rule it out
As for people within, those people already get condemned by the peaceful protesters. The government will control the narrative through traditional media, but anyone on the internet will see raw video footage, and will know the truth for themselves. We've seen this many times here already.
But would you agree that this protest is starting to go out of hand?
Presently, I would only say that it has gotten out of hand for the gov officials, and has gotten way out of hand for the police (to control their own front line grunts). The the protesters' level, things still look within control.
For the gov officials, Lam has repeatedly screwed up, making what should have been a small issue blowing up into an ever growing problem. Her arragonance and stubborness are the culprit here. Had she "withdrawn" the proposal earlier, or had her acting been better during her TV speech or during the apology, it wouldn't have blown up to the scale it has now. At this point, anything and everything that the gov tries to do is pissing somebody off. The 2nd in-command near-baldy dude comes out to apologize for the police, and the idiot cops come out to lash at him. The HKSAR gov stands firm on the "rioters" being violent, and the whole HK society comes out to blast them.
The police have completely lost control of their front line grunts. Police aren't supposed to shoot tear gas canisters directly at protesters. They are not supposed to club protesters on their heads and neck (cuz that can kill people), and they are most definitely not supposed to illegally modify their batons so that it has the equivalent of "spikes" -- for those who don't know, at least one of the riot police is captured in a photo showing he has added a hose clamp with the nut and screw intact on his police baton. The police are not supposed to beat up reporters. They are not supposed to charge at and beat up peaceful protesters, esp when no prior warnings have been given. They are not supposed to fire tear gas when there are senior homes around. They are not supposed to arrive 39 min late when the police emergency line has been called to report violent triad members beating up on regular citizens. The whole HKPD is so screwed up now that I have no idea how they can win back any public trust when/if this get resolved.
Among the protesters, I am still reading reports that the more radical protesters are getting booed into retreating when they try to suggest something more radical during a peaceful demonstration. But as the tolls continue to mount every weekend, I am obviously concerned that generally peaceful crowd will lose patience. And at the same time, without the threat of the more radical protesters, you can't put or increase any pressure on the government to give into the protesters' demands. It is definitely a very delicate balance that is ever so easy to fall out of balance...
they are most definitely not supposed to illegally modify their batons so that it has the equivalent of "spikes" -- for those who don't know, at least one of the riot police is captured in a photo showing he has added a hose clamp with the nut and screw intact on his police baton.
And update / correction to my previous statement so that I am not spreading any false information. The latest high resolution picture from the press (HK01) shows the police baton in question above is almost certainly rigged with 3 black zip ties near the head of the baton where it'll make contact with the persons that the baton hits. It is unlikely to be a hose clamp with screw/nut as I have previously mentioned.
The PR dept of the HKPD have also issued a short press release where they claim the zip ties were meant to be there to hold the baton strap in place, except that the strap has come loose during usage, so the zip ties "slipped" to the front. Personally, I find the excuse to be absolutely bogus because you don't zip tie the baton strap when you use the baton -- the officer would slip his hand through the loop first, and then hold onto the baton. This way, the baton won't fall off if the officer's hand slipped and let go of the baton. Furthermore, I've reviewed close to 100 pictures of HK police wielding batons, and none of them ever had any additional thing on the baton. The zip ties is a new addition / modification that is likely unauthorized and illegal. But the HKPD and its PR department has been caught blantantly lying to the public multiple times now, so I am not at all surprised by yet another new lie.
Honestly at this point, I find the HKPD to be so corrupt that the entire force needs to be disbanded and rebuild from scratch under a new structure if public trust were to be restored. But of course, that is never going to happen, esp under the current CCP-backed HKSAR gov.
You'd think that some regular posters here would have the intelligence not to post 20 sec video snippets with no context to drive home their one sided point.
I said I wasn't going to respond to you, but this is just too much to pass up. I really can't believe a Canadian person is saying the things you do. Maybe I am getting trolled again, whatever. Maybe you really think this way. If that's the case, maybe some other people are, so there's some value in replying. I understand and fully support being skeptical of all information being put out there. There's plenty of misinformation, either on purpose or not.
If you think there is anything that could remotely justify the actions of the police in the above video, then you are really beyond help... Police sometimes have to use force, we all know that. If a suspect is resisting arrest, feel free to throw them to the ground and arrest them.
But that thug is not arresting anyone. It doesn't matter if there's 10 seconds missing from the video, or 10 minutes. He threw a non-criminal to the ground, physically assaulted her, and walked away. He is not arresting her, he is just beating on her for no good reason.
If he threw her to the ground and arrested her, the video would never have been shared. This is just straight up assault.
ANd L - O - FUCKING L at the pro china rally you posted... Not I know I'm being trolled. Still, I'm leaving this up.
I really wish you'd stop trying to disrupt this thread.
In the end, Carrie Lam and/or her top staff(s) has to be the sacrificial lamb to simmer down the tension. Sure, it is no guarantee to fully stop the protests, but at least it is a starting point.
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