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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
And certainly, I apologize for misunderstanding your comment. I'm definitely not great at English, but I felt I would've interpret it differently if it was "luckily, no one was killed (or injured)" because from the video, although highly unlikely, the officer could've been seriously injured or killed too.
For the record, I did reread your sentence several times to check my understanding of it. I do apologize that I misunderstood what you meant/feel.
Anyhow, I definitely agree with you that there are agent-provocateur tactics being used. Hence, I too am trying to becareful not to label those who are attacking the police or causing chaos as protesters, because, we really don't know who they are anymore. They COULD be radical protesters, or police, or thugs using all this as an excuse for violence, or even protesters who were once peaceful but have lost their patience. Right now, besides UN releasing a statement, a lot of things aren't working in the protesters favour.
Adding a bit of personal experience, my mom is just a regular homemaker. She is definitely a kind person and doesn't support violence,racism etc. Because she was born in China, she's definitely more nationalistic than my siblings and I. The point I want to make though, she only knows how to use iPad and TV for media. She turns on the TV every morning, and a lot of news coverage would portray how violent the protesters are, but not very often, or rarely, do they cover the excessive force use by the police. She doesn't know how to use the internet to go on Revscene or other places to view discussions. So how she views the protest is greatly affected by what she sees in the media. Multiple that by thousands, ten thousands households, and you realize how much the protesters are going up against in addition to the government.
Hong Kong is an generally more informed society. Majoryity of the population knows how to use internet, knows different avenue of research etc.
That is why it is so hard for honger to understand why a good portion of mainlander dont support their cause or the power of propganda and how it can shape the public opioion towards social matter. While they are fighting the battle their own way, they are kind of ignoring the other side of the battlefield.
This is not unlike how some portion of the society cant understand why homeless people dont just "find a job" or why drug addict can't jsut "stop the addiction". Or vice versa.
The protest started out with hope of sparking a similiar civil unrest and upheaval in China. China has stomp out previous "riot and revolt" in virtually the same way. Changing the public opioion through media and propganda,get the public on their side and than they will legitimize their use of violence. Hong Kong protest claim to "be water" but they have kind of tunnel vision themselves. They've fail to get the mainlanders on their side and now its turn into Honger vs Mainlander.
Instead of stopping the propganda and making their only neightbor sympathical to their cause they've added fuel to the fire.
Lets not forget at the end of the day, no matter what happen Hong Kong will always be physically tied to China.
Personally I think the best course of action right now is actually to appeal directly to the Chinese government. Hold Carrie Lam, her admistration accountantble for mismanging Hong Kong. Punish her for allowing Hong kong to sink into anarchy and chaos. China can assert their sovereignty on HK, allow China to save their face at the same time defuse the situation at hand.
With a new administration, both side can restart their neogitation with a cleaner slate and a calmer state of mind. Work on rest of the demand together..
Dont think this will ever happen though. As much as people want to say this is not an Anti-china or Hong Kong seperationist movement.
It has turn into that. Fight force with force until you get supress violently. None of the request will be met and force China tighten their grip even more on Hong Kong.
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Originally Posted by Ludepower
I would walk away from the bank and cut my loses and move to another country. Vancouver is fucking expensive...I either pay up or move somewhere cheaper.
I'm not starting an arguement. But the writing is on the wall and the eventual outcome looks bleak with no other country daring to intervene.
Not gonna stick my neck out for this and will search out a safer future for me and my family.
Ok now back to our schedule programming of daily videos of protesting that none of us can do about it.
But these people can't get out. They can't just magically immigrant to another country coz you know other countries just don't take you open arm. You have to file an application and wait 1 to 3 years. The rich and the powerful pretty much all have/can leave anytime they like. Is the middle class/poor that get stuck.
A bit of a side track, but it's what I was thinking while reading through this. If this was happening in the Middle East, how quickly will the US and other countries with vested interests get involved; maybe I haven't read enough but I wonder what other world leaders are thinking about what's going on here.
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[03-07, 03:26] Yodamaster - The feeling when you quickly insert without hitting the sides
A bit of a side track, but it's what I was thinking while reading through this. If this was happening in the Middle East, how quickly will the US and other countries with vested interests get involved; maybe I haven't read enough but I wonder what other world leaders are thinking about what's going on here.
Should this be taking place in the Middle East, USA will no doubt be all over it, possibly due to the reap in benefits, oil reserves, weaponry sales, etc.
Just my thoughts of course.
Anything that has to do with China is a risky-business situation to be in. World leaders are no doubt watching the HK/China extradition war going on.
-but should anyone try to intervene, it could mean trouble and put their own country/nation in jeopardy.
Totally off-track of an example.
The Dolce-Gabbana debacle, where the founder of D&G made some distasteful and racist advertisements. The backfire and uproar in China was immediate, and DG's sales tanked in the Chinese markets.
China has the upper hand in many areas, and it gets sticky when other people try to intervene. Didn't a US navy ship get rejected for its entry into the HK/China regions recently?
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A bit of a side track, but it's what I was thinking while reading through this. If this was happening in the Middle East, how quickly will the US and other countries with vested interests get involved; maybe I haven't read enough but I wonder what other world leaders are thinking about what's going on here.
Jews tried the same thing. We sent them back to Germany.
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Police are completely indiscriminate about where they fire tear gas. That includes inside MTR stations BTW. You could be walking down the street, near a gathering of protesters, and you could get hit by tear gas. Especially if you're in a poorer neighbourhood where they don't give a fuck about the local citizens.
I can give you an example. Say you sign a 50 year mortgage for 1 million at 4% interest for that 50 years. However the bank decides after 7 years it will double your interest to 8%. You of course goes and argues with your about it. After a few weeks calling to your bank, visiting the branch office and complain on social media they agree not to raise your interest. Then 3 years they try the same thing and this time they didn't back down till you contact the local newspaper. Then 3 years later your bank try the same thing and this time they aren't backing down even if it goes on the news and you rally a group of friends and relatives to protest at the branch with news reporter. But instead of the bank backing down they got the police in and tear gas you, your friends, your relatives and the news reporter and then proceed to beat the crap out of you. Oh and don't bother going to the court coz the bank have the court bought so you will lose the case. And the contract you sign said you can't change mortgage provider.
How would you feel then? Now image that's how the people in HK feel the same way only 9000x worse.
Excuse my ignorance. I'm just here to learn and understand more.
So what is expected to happen after 2047? Is another protest going to happen?
Is the conflict right now simply because China is trying to take over HK way sooner than it should?
__________________ __________________________________________________ Last edited by AzNightmare; Today at 10:09 AM
Again just a reminder of why the public freaks out when they see a cop hovering over a civilian on the ground. This does NOT excuse their behaviour of course, but it sort of explains it. People usually rely on the police to protect them, but now it's the other way around.
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the riot police aren't there to serve and protect the rioters/protesters, they're there to disperse or apprehend them, so I don't know what's expected other than that
so what seems to be happening recently (recently mind you) aired on the news here is this
hk police: "if you don't disperse, we'll do it forcefully" while moving in
protesters: "diu lay lomo!" while attacking the police
hk police: "ok hum ga chan..."
skinnypupp: "stupid barbaric police fuck them and any idiots who don't support the protesters"
the riot police aren't there to serve and protect the rioters/protesters, they're there to disperse or apprehend them, so I don't know what's expected other than that
Police, by definition, are meant to serve and protect the citizens - which the protesters still are.
Just because someone is breaking the law, does not mean the police can do whatever the fuck they want to that person.
the riot police aren't there to serve and protect the rioters/protesters, they're there to disperse or apprehend them, so I don't know what's expected other than that
so what seems to be happening recently (recently mind you) aired on the news here is this
hk police: "if you don't disperse, we'll do it forcefully" while moving in
protesters: "diu lay lomo!" while attacking the police
hk police: "ok hum ga chan..."
skinnypupp: "stupid barbaric police fuck them and any idiots who don't support the protesters"
sorry couldn't resist :P
In his defence though, he really hasn't said anything about fucking the police, but just condeming them for their excessive use of force and lack of reasonable explaination for some of their actions.
Like the 2 videos he just posted, the only thing I can really make out is, a tear gas was fired at the direction of a restaurant entrance. I can't see any crowd in that particular direction, from the video.
The other video is a group of police hitting 2-3 civilian (who knows who these people actually are, protesters?imposters?thugs?) on the ground. What's clear is that they are already on the ground, and the police hit them with the baton for a good 5-10 seconds. It does look excessive, but the video starts when they are already hitting them, and there was no sound, so I can't make out what exactly led up to it.
the riot police aren't there to serve and protect the rioters/protesters, they're there to disperse or apprehend them, so I don't know what's expected other than that
so what seems to be happening recently (recently mind you) aired on the news here is this
hk police: "if you don't disperse, we'll do it forcefully" while moving in
protesters: "diu lay lomo!" while attacking the police
hk police: "ok hum ga chan..."
skinnypupp: "stupid barbaric police fuck them and any idiots who don't support the protesters"
sorry couldn't resist :P
Do have to keep in mind. News like to broadcast the exciting stuff. What isn't shown is the riot police tear gassing randomly empty streets. Picking pedstratian out for whatever reason.
Western news/ Non Hong Kong news also dont show much of the super cringey interview that Carrie Lam and her administration does.
While it does not justify any of the violence done by the protestor, the city is near a breaking point and the HK government is loosing control
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Originally Posted by inv4zn
Police, by definition, are meant to serve and protect the citizens - which the protesters still are.
no that's not what they are meant for by definition, by definition they're meant to enforce the law, prevent/stop crime, and maintain order...
to serve and protect is just a motto by some police forces in the US, and a title for a TV show. The HK police motto is to serve with pride and care
Quote:
Just because someone is breaking the law, does not mean the police can do whatever the fuck they want to that person.
Yes, but when in the process of apprehending someone resisting arrest? It's very lax... After all they can kill you (Ur not considered apprehended until Ur calm, and under their control)
And I will say, I'm just taking a shot at skinny for laughs, I'm not serious
You know if this was the US these protestors would have been shot with real bullets when they are attacking the riot police or just the regular police. A lot more people in the states have been shot for a lot less than these guys.
Orange Julius sent out this tweet to Winnie the Pooh Xi about talking face to face with protesters.
I highly doubt that Xi and the protesters would have any dialogue at this turbulent time.
Donald J. Trump
✔ @realDonaldTrump
If President Xi would meet directly and personally with the protesters, there would be a happy and enlightened ending to the Hong Kong problem. I have no doubt!
It happens anywhere and everywhere ... even in democratic, free speech nations like Canada (2010). And this was only 1 week of meetings, imagine 10-11 weeks of this. Not defending the violence of police ... just saying that it should not be a surprise that shit happens under tense & stressful situations. Tell me one nation/country that would still have upstanding non condemnable police conduct after 10 weeks of protests like HK. If anyone would like, I can pull up videos of Paris (2019), UK (2011), Seattle (1999) ... I think you get the idea.
Officers made more than 900 arrests linked to the summit in the past 10 days, Jillian Van Acker, a representative of the G20 Integrated Security Unit, said Monday. However, early on Saturday morning, police said they had arrested a total of 32 people, meaning that close to 900 were arrested during the weekend alone.
The Canadian Civil Liberties Association denounced the mass arrests, saying they were illegal and unconstitutional because police did not have reasonable grounds to believe that everyone they detained had committed a crime or was about to do so.
So I guess its started... We're at that stage where the mass is starting to sympathize Police means of peace keeping and starting to slowly denounce the protestors.
"I can see they [the protestors] are just fearless. They help out each other and they're way younger than me, too. I'm proud of them, quite honestly," says Chan from her Burnaby home.
But it's not a consensus shared by all, especially in the Chan household. Several of her relatives, including her mother, vehemently disagree with her. Political debates often lead to confrontations and a breakdown in communication.
The divide isn't reserved for the Chans. It's fracturing the family dynamic of many Canadians residents with Hong Kong roots.
Now, Chan says she regularly argues with her relatives — especially her mother, who supports the Hong Kong government — but to no end. Both sides are entrenched in their opinions, unwilling to budge.
"When [the arguments] get to that stage of aggression, I will just stop. I just close my door," she says.
Chan recalls one time sitting around the dinner table, eating dim sum, when her grandfather passed around a form declaring support for the Hong Kong government, and instructed everyone to sign.
Chan and her cousins refused.
Sora Chan agrees the violence has gone too far on both sides. But she sees the protestors' violence as a reaction rather than a provocation.
"For me, looking at Hong Kong right now, it's more like an animal's almost being killed and struggling for its last breath," says Chan. "They just want to fight back."
Despite the division, one thing they can all agree on is the desire for a peaceful resolution to the protests.
the stalemate will end when whoever is more desperate to terminate the daily disruptions throws in the towel
is it the HKers or the CCP?
are HKers successfully convincing Mainlanders to protest in their own cities? that hope has already vanished. otoh, this protest may have quite the impact on the taiwan elections
it's one thing for one of the busiest airports to be disrupted for a week...it's not sustainable to try and cut it off for weeks. all the business/tourism will be hurting if not already...at some point people will choose keeping their heads above the water over fighting for a pipe dream/counter eroding freedom...meanwhile the hk police/communists are likely to show more restraint to wait it out for the protesters to go past breaking point and crash
Last edited by twitchyzero; 08-15-2019 at 06:13 PM.
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