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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Yea! Mao was so nice he didnt kill ALL your relatives. Nice of him to keep the ones with the lowest IQ lying around.
I won't pretend to know every inch of the dynamics to this conflict, but I'd wager a guess that an arrogant attitude of superiority plays at least a small part to the division.
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__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
autobahn! jet engines! rockets! VW/Porsche! yeah they did some good stuff too
Jet engines and rockets would have still existed without hitler. Not having ww2 vs not having VW/Porsche seems like a easy choice to me but maybe your o.k. with millions dies so we can have VW and Porsche vehicles.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Jet engines and rockets would have still existed without hitler. Not having ww2 vs not having VW/Porsche seems like a easy choice to me but maybe your o.k. with millions dies so we can have VW and Porsche vehicles.
Now now Manic! You asked if anything good came of hitler. Not whether the ends justified the means.
Don't start feigning reading comprehension now
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic!
Jet engines and rockets would have still existed without hitler. Not having ww2 vs not having VW/Porsche seems like a easy choice to me but maybe your o.k. with millions dies so we can have VW and Porsche vehicles.
I won't pretend to know every inch of the dynamics to this conflict, but I'd wager a guess that an arrogant attitude of superiority plays at least a small part to the division.
ugh, this shit is everpresent in Chinese culture.
Hongers hate mainlanders
Mainlanders hate Taiwanese
City dwelling mainlanders hate farmers
Farmers think city dwellers are elitist
Nobody cares about minority groups and their oppression (Tibetians, Uyghurs, whatever)
Beijingers hates Shanghaiers
Shanghaiers hate everyone whos, not from shanghai and farmers and even those who are from shanghai but can't prove their lineage back 2-3 generations in the city.
Everyone seems to love a white guy who can speak chinese though...
you think Ferdinand Porsche would not be designing cars if it was not for hitler.
I don't think you have the inability to not misunderstand the things that I did not say
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Nobody cares about minority groups and their oppression (Tibetians, Uyghurs, whatever)
Beijingers hates Shanghaiers
Shanghaiers hate everyone whos, not from shanghai and farmers and even those who are from shanghai but can't prove their lineage back 2-3 generations in the city.
Everyone seems to love a white guy who can speak chinese though...
this shitty list goes on and on.
It's not just Chinese culture, this happens everywhere. I think it's human nature, just look at our very own car community.
From my observations, I'd say that the Hong Kong people wouldn't care enough about Hong Kong's decreasing economic significance, whether it is on its own, or whether as part of China's economic significance. In fact, people wouldn't give a shxt about Hong Kong's decreasing economic significance as part of China's GDP to the point where they get all pissed off.
There is of course economic stagnation for the majority of regular citizens. On the books in absolute terms, Hong Kong's GDP has continued to climb. But hardly any of those economic benefits are trickling down to be enjoyed by the common citizen. In fact, lives have gotten harder -- much harder in many cases -- for the regular Hong Kong non-super wealthy person, whether it is salary levels, housing or other staple costs. Upward social mobility is lacking. On the surface, the new wealth is all reaped up by the real estate oligarchs. If you look more closely, state-backed companies from China have also been reaping in massive economic benefits as well, although they used to do it more discretely in the past. Now, they just blantantly lap up the gravy train.
Of course politics plays a central role to this. The RE oligarchs have worked out a defacto implicit understanding with high ranking gov officials where the officials will offer preferential treatment for the RE tycoons in exchange for delayed renumeration when they retire from gov, in the form of high paying positions in their companies. With a crippled legislative system, democracy is only a facade where they can't put any meaningful policies into place that would favour the voting public. The Pro-China and Pro-establishment camp can basically do whatever dafuq they want. It also doesn't help that for well over 20 years, the "democratic" politicians also have no real interest in seeking true democracy for the public -- they only pay lip service to it so that they can continue to get re-elected and keep their high paying, low working jobs.
If there is real democracy, the politicans would have to be at least somewhat accountable to the people. Of course, Beijing wouldn't allow true democracy until they know they can win the election by a landslide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threezero
Here is another unpopular opinion.
The real problem with Hong Kong and the real reason why the population is angry is the decreasing economic significance of Hong Kong and decade worth of economical inequality that has plague the place.
Outrageous rent/house pricing, the stranglehold real estate tycoon has on land usage, the lack of opportunities for young generation and the crazy wealth gap between the have and have nots. It is easy to be angry as a native honger.
Democracy is great in terms of human right, freedom of speeches etc. It is not a guarantee to economic prosperity and in some way it deter economic reform.
Cry for democracy is a temporal band-aid for the real problem. Hong Kong will never be truly be happy until the root problem is solved.
From my observations, I'd say that the Hong Kong people wouldn't care enough about Hong Kong's decreasing economic significance, whether it is on its own, or whether as part of China's economic significance. In fact, people wouldn't give a shxt about Hong Kong's decreasing economic significance as part of China's GDP to the point where they get all pissed off.
There is of course economic stagnation for the majority of regular citizens. On the books in absolute terms, Hong Kong's GDP has continued to climb. But hardly any of those economic benefits are trickling down to be enjoyed by the common citizen. In fact, lives have gotten harder -- much harder in many cases -- for the regular Hong Kong non-super wealthy person, whether it is salary levels, housing or other staple costs. Upward social mobility is lacking. On the surface, the new wealth is all reaped up by the real estate oligarchs. If you look more closely, state-backed companies from China have also been reaping in massive economic benefits as well, although they used to do it more discretely in the past. Now, they just blantantly lap up the gravy train.
Of course politics plays a central role to this. The RE oligarchs have worked out a defacto implicit understanding with high ranking gov officials where the officials will offer preferential treatment for the RE tycoons in exchange for delayed renumeration when they retire from gov, in the form of high paying positions in their companies. With a crippled legislative system, democracy is only a facade where they can't put any meaningful policies into place that would favour the voting public. The Pro-China and Pro-establishment camp can basically do whatever dafuq they want. It also doesn't help that for well over 20 years, the "democratic" politicians also have no real interest in seeking true democracy for the public -- they only pay lip service to it so that they can continue to get re-elected and keep their high paying, low working jobs.
If there is real democracy, the politicans would have to be at least somewhat accountable to the people. Of course, Beijing wouldn't allow true democracy until they know they can win the election by a landslide.
I think he did mention wealth disparity as a huge problem, and not just for youths, but for the general public in HK.
I think he's saying that this problem is not unique to a particular type of goverment, but basically, you would see this everywhere in the world in major cities.
Of course, I think the problem would problaby not be as severe in a democratic society or government, vs what we see in Hong Kong right now.
From my observations, I'd say that the Hong Kong people wouldn't care enough about Hong Kong's decreasing economic significance, whether it is on its own, or whether as part of China's economic significance. In fact, people wouldn't give a shxt about Hong Kong's decreasing economic significance as part of China's GDP to the point where they get all pissed off.
There is of course economic stagnation for the majority of regular citizens. On the books in absolute terms, Hong Kong's GDP has continued to climb. But hardly any of those economic benefits are trickling down to be enjoyed by the common citizen. In fact, lives have gotten harder -- much harder in many cases -- for the regular Hong Kong non-super wealthy person, whether it is salary levels, housing or other staple costs. Upward social mobility is lacking. On the surface, the new wealth is all reaped up by the real estate oligarchs. If you look more closely, state-backed companies from China have also been reaping in massive economic benefits as well, although they used to do it more discretely in the past. Now, they just blantantly lap up the gravy train.
Of course politics plays a central role to this. The RE oligarchs have worked out a defacto implicit understanding with high ranking gov officials where the officials will offer preferential treatment for the RE tycoons in exchange for delayed renumeration when they retire from gov, in the form of high paying positions in their companies. With a crippled legislative system, democracy is only a facade where they can't put any meaningful policies into place that would favour the voting public. The Pro-China and Pro-establishment camp can basically do whatever dafuq they want. It also doesn't help that for well over 20 years, the "democratic" politicians also have no real interest in seeking true democracy for the public -- they only pay lip service to it so that they can continue to get re-elected and keep their high paying, low working jobs.
If there is real democracy, the politicans would have to be at least somewhat accountable to the people. Of course, Beijing wouldn't allow true democracy until they know they can win the election by a landslide.
Very thoughtful response I hope more people in the movement itself would realize this is the ultimate goal of democracy. The role of any government is to provide housing, welfare, economical direction, law and order to the society.
The movement is fill with emotionally charged people that is screaming for retribution, and seperation. This is dangerous, raw emotion can hijack a democratic government just as easily as it hijack this once peaceful movement.
If Hong Kong succeed in becoming independance, they still have to deal with the fact that they are directly beside China. You can't just ignore your neighbor, espeically if your neighbor is a global power house. Figure out Hong Kong's place AS China's neighbor both politically and economically.
Condone the people that are still using this as an excuse to hold the city hostage and vent their anger.
Anger and Democracy is scary. I hope Hong Kong don't fall into that trap.
I am not in Hong Kong, so I am obviously very much detached from the ground level type of emotions that can only be felt by those who are there. From what I can see though, secession / independence is a present, but not dominant sentiment among the public, though it might be among pockets of the younger generation. The dominant sentiments are still a functional 1-country-2-system, with China not meddling into Hong Kong's affairs. I will say though -- the younger generations are not at all oppposed to secession / independence. That much I know.
Currently, my impressions of the movement is primarily filled with retribution for police brutality, as well as the continued demand for an independent commission to investigate. It is not even that clear to me anymore exactly what would be the scope of this independent commission should it ever get formed -- is it just on the Yuen Long mob attack? Does it date back to the first protests? or the physical break & enter / trespassing into LegCo? and how far down the road would it reach? Clashes continue to this very day, even though things have quieted down by quite a bit. Of course there are the rest of "the 5 demands", but to me, the central issue now is really just retribution for police brutality as well as independent commission.
Outrageous rent/house pricing, the stranglehold real estate tycoon has on land usage, the lack of opportunities for young generation and the crazy wealth gap between the have and have nots. It is easy to be angry as a native honger.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
One of the human chains, going along Lion Rock. This made for the nicest photos, but there were lines going for miles and miles throughout the city tonight. AFAIK nobody got shot by police, but I could be wrong.
Look at all these damn violent protesters!
I'm sure there will be a line in Vancouver today
BTW for those that don't know, (btw this is as I, as a foreigner, understand it) "Lion Rock Spirit" and the mountain itself, is sort of a symbol of the working class HK citizens and their values that get passed on through generations. But it's kind of complicated to get into here... It stems from the 70s TV series (and more importantly the song) Below the Lion Rock, which was about true-life stories of people living in Kowloon, rebuilding after WWII.
You see statues of lions in Chinese culture, well Kowloon has a giant mountain shaped like a lion to watch over them. In past years, it has been used for political statements, such as this gigantic banner during the Umbrella Movement in 2014
Along with others, calling for universal suffrage, etc
I always appreciate when I catch a glimpse of Lion Rock, and I think a lot of people do as well, especially in times like these when strength and perseverance are needed.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
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