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Nobody's getting fucking paid to protest in HK you clowns
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp
That being said, there's a very good chance that the most violent protesters are agent provocateurs.
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They finally got the water cannons into service eh, bout time, that should be more effective and less damaging than rubber bullets/bean bags/tear gas
Fuck the water cannons, that's not the story of the day. Instead, police pointed live guns at random people again, including reporters, and kicking down people who were on their knees pleading for them to put their guns away. This time they fired warning shots into the air (without care of what happens when the bullets land, or if they fire diagonally into a resident's home)
They have completely lost control. The government has them out there simply to create conflict and violence. They want to kill someone. BTW None of these cops had their ID numbers showing or warrant badges showing. There's no proof that they are actually HKPF officers.
Once the protesters cleared out, they started going after local residents. Even when complying, they get thrown to the ground
This is beyond "police being shitty to people" like we've seen in other protests gone bad. These are soldiers at war, and the "violent protesters" are just there to try to defend each other.
If the police literally no-showed tonight, what would have happened? The barricades would have still been put up, but for no real reason. It just would have been another peaceful protest. Because whenever there's violence from the protesters, it's directed towards the police, nowhere else. No police = no violence. We saw it all throughout the city with the human chain, we saw it with the 1.7 million march on Sunday... Cops could just stay away, and let people do their rightful legal protests. There'd be no violence to speak of.
Of course, you're crazy if you think the government doesn't want violence. They could put an end to it peacefully instantly if they wanted to.
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Was just going to post about the live round being used too, was just watching BBC, they described it as protesters chasing police with sticks, which caused guns to be drawn though
Was just going to post about the live round being used too, was just watching BBC, they described it as protesters chasing police with sticks, which caused guns to be drawn though
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tbh it seems hk police aren't trained/equipped for this, hell they only just got their water cannons into service!
But I don't think any police force is trained to deal with such extended periods of unrest, this is like something a national guard should be dealing with
So I can see the police force doing... Newb? Shit here and there, like getting caught out from the rest of the pack, using tear gas where they aren't meant to, etc
You would think after all this time though, that mistakes wouldnt persist as often as they seem to
If there's no end to this in sight, then the police force probably does need the aid of better trained forces, but I think we all shudder at thought of what that means, since the only source open to them is China..
And maybe that's why people have been hearing mandarin speaking police? Hmm maybe the HK police knows they don't have the forces they need, with the proper training, so they've allowed forces from China to come in, under their (hk police) command, but they also know, if that was a fact made public, the protesters would lose it even more.
Hkpf has what? 30k police officers. If mainland officers are helping, why are they outnumbered so badly? Why can’t they set up traps and arrest aggressive protesters?
Also, just language alone doesn’t mean they’re mainlander? Hell there are two white guy officers, are they British spies?
Plus if Ccp does send officers down, they can easily send Cantonese speaking ones. Guangdong is just around the corner.
But fuck sakes, I’m all for what they’re protesting but violence ain’t the key to winning support. Cross arms with everyone. Stand there and do nothing. They can’t do anything if you’re not instigating.
Here's the beginning where a group of mask man with metal stick attacking the police car that spark the show down minutes later with the shot fired.
Reports said they were responding to a local store vandalism call when their Police Van was attacked.
I dont understand, so is the police suppose to completely disappear from the street now? Respond to civilian call, you get beat up. Don’t respond to call and they get criticize for failing to do policework. Even being there can been see as provocation for mobs of protestor with pipes.
I dunno how people can't see that there are clear divide within the protestors, the peaceful one and these guys who is out for blood.
The police clearly is not prepare for an extended protest such as this. As other's have mentioned any other cities in the world would be calling in the national guard/ be on curfew by now. HKPD as flaw as they are in this whole thing, is the only thing stoping PLA from storming the city
Honestly it takes bigger balls to be a HKPD right now, under number, under trained, hated by the city, their family harassed. Cant ask for support from Chinese police, can't ask for support from the PLA.
Cant go anywhere in uniform without being shouted at by the public.
The worse is yet to come. When everything settles, HKPD's reputation has tarnish so much nobody will want to apply to be a HKPD, HKPD might really have to do their hiring inside China
i thought the protesters were sorry for the violence at the airport?
yet here we see 200+ zerg rush nevermind mollies being used
how much longer until martial law? any other democratic system would've already declared state of emergency...like 2 weeks ago
some former Soviet state or Arab state I can imagine this level of chaos dragging on for months/years, but it's shocking to see this in asia pacific...at this rate HK is simply imploding
Sad but understandable to see the human emotion taking over sensibilities. This is what the masterminds at the top are betting on. People losing their shit makes it all the easier for the ccp to declare states of emergency, and really clamp down with "reasons".
Even if they don't. The city continues to lose respect and trust from its own citizens that don't agree with the violence and again the ccp wins. Its a really tough situation to be in.
Here's the beginning where a group of mask man with metal stick attacking the police car that spark the show down minutes later with the shot fired.
Reports said they were responding to a local store vandalism call when their Police Van was attacked.
I dont understand, so is the police suppose to completely disappear from the street now? Respond to civilian call, you get beat up. Don’t respond to call and they get criticize for failing to do policework. Even being there can been see as provocation for mobs of protestor with pipes.
I dunno how people can't see that there are clear divide within the protestors, the peaceful one and these guys who is out for blood.
The police clearly is not prepare for an extended protest such as this. As other's have mentioned any other cities in the world would be calling in the national guard/ be on curfew by now. HKPD as flaw as they are in this whole thing, is the only thing stoping PLA from storming the city
Honestly it takes bigger balls to be a HKPD right now, under number, under trained, hated by the city, their family harassed. Cant ask for support from Chinese police, can't ask for support from the PLA.
Cant go anywhere in uniform without being shouted at by the public.
The worse is yet to come. When everything settles, HKPD's reputation has tarnish so much nobody will want to apply to be a HKPD, HKPD might really have to do their hiring inside China
Basically a group of 7 cops, in light riot gear, picked a fight with a group of protesters armed with sticks. They got their asses kicked, and then pulled their guns and fired a shot.
If someone gets killed, it's all going to come down to police acting recklessly. Either a cop is going to get killed, or one is going to shoot someone (maybe a protester, maybe some random person in the area). I would never condone violence either way, but the way I am observing things, the people have been brutalized by police for weeks now. Women have been sexually assaulted. Police aren't acting to clear crowds, they are purposefully attempting to maim people. And they've accomplished this many times. People don't see them as an authority anymore, they are acting like gangsters. Normally when a group does this, you call the police to protect you. But when the police are the ones committing these crimes, the people are going to protect themselves.
And YES! The police should not show up at protests. The only violence the protesters are doing are aimed at police. No police, no violence. We saw it last Sunday, we saw it on the human chain, we see it in other legal protests. Whenever cops don't show up, the protest goes on, they clean up after themselves, and leave.
Of course the government "loses face" for this, so it's not going to happen
no police = no violence, then why are these hooligans carrying sticks/homemade bombs?
police can show up to restore order, you know, carrying out their duties/jobs, when protesters are causing property damage to public infrastructure aka smart posts
if i disagree with the new speeding cameras around Vancouver, can I start destroying them then be armed to attack the police when they arrive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp
Basically a group of 7 cops, in light riot gear, picked a fight with a group of protesters armed with sticks. They got their asses kicked, and then pulled their guns and fired a shot.
And YES! The police should not show up at protests. The only violence the protesters are doing are aimed at police. No police, no violence.
Basically a group of 7 cops, in light riot gear, picked a fight with a group of protesters armed with sticks. They got their asses kicked, and then pulled their guns and fired a shot.
If someone gets killed, it's all going to come down to police acting recklessly. Either a cop is going to get killed, or one is going to shoot someone (maybe a protester, maybe some random person in the area)
And YES! The police should not show up at protests. The only violence the protesters are doing are aimed at police. No police, no violence. We saw it last Sunday, we saw it on the human chain, we see it in other legal protests. Whenever cops don't show up, the protest goes on, they clean up after themselves, and leave.
Of course the government "loses face" for this, so it's not going to happen
According to this the police "picked a fight" with bunch of protestor wielding sticks. So the protestor were there first with sticks before the police show up.
So from now on the police must hide in their office whenever a group of citizen runs around town banishing weapon because they were "protesting peacefully"
Like you said on Sunday there was no police confrontation because nobody show up at that protest with metal stick looking for a fight. Foot patrol police is a staple of Hong Kong society, rest assure there was police presence at the peaceful protest. Perhaps they call it in as a peaceful protest and thus no riot police show up?
You said the violence is directed at the police only. Clearly that is not the case in every single incident.
This is what the police was supposedly responding to when they got overwhelmed on the street
No matter what this store did to spark this level of violence from protestor, society should still be held down by law and order. Whatever this store/store owner did should not of been judge by a crowd of angry people banishing weapon.
What happen to the innocent until proven guilty model that Hong Kongers are fighting to uphold?
I agree with you police should not show up to a peaceful protest with force. If they did they should be condone as they have been on previous occasion. But when the protestors wreck the city and the police respond with force the protestor should ALSO be condone for instigating.
Being one sides on every single issue how you create a divide within the people that does support the original intent of the movement. Being unable to see one's own fault make you look just like the CCP that insist on claiming everything they do is correct
Actually that's interesting, if you look at the way the cops arrest someone there, and compare it to what the cops are doing here...
No idea if it's a justifiable arrest being made (apparently the protest was peaceful?) but you can see, they go in, take the guy down, and other cops surround as an arrest is made. In HK, they'd be stepping on his face, beating him with the edge of their shields, and whacking him in the face with a baton. All while the other cops swing randomly at other protesters, provoking more skirmishes. And then they may or may not actually arrest the person in the end.
But yeah if you really want to discuss what's going on in Paris, maybe start another thread?
no police = no violence, then why are these hooligans carrying sticks/homemade bombs?
Because we're not at "no police = no violence" yet. They knew the police were going to attack them, so they armed themsevles. If they knew the police weren't going to be there, they wouldn't have done so. We've seen this in many other protests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero
if i disagree with the new speeding cameras around Vancouver, can I start destroying them then be armed to attack the police when they arrive?
That's funny. When Canada starts putting up mass surveillance cameras to start spying on their citizens, and punishing them for going certain places at certain times, you may just see that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threezero
According to this the police "picked a fight" with bunch of protestor wielding sticks. So the protestor were there first with sticks before the police show up.
Yes, like I said, when they know the police are coming, they're going to arm themselves.
If the police stop showing up, those sticks are irrelevant.
If the police completely stop showing up, so will the sticks. Unless the govt keeps sending mainland thugs of course, but that's another issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threezero
So from now on the police must hide in their office whenever a group of citizen runs around town banishing weapon because they were "protesting peacefully"
If that means nobody gets hurt, no property is damaged, and people simply use their right to protest, why are you mocking it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by threezero
No matter what this store did to spark this level of violence from protestor, society should still be held down by law and order. Whatever this store/store owner did should not of been judge by a crowd of angry people banishing weapon.
Yup apparently after all this time, it may be too late to turn back. Crowds will fight triads, and here you see they will attack their "businesses", as they will fight police
Because we're not at "no police = no violence" yet. They knew the police were going to attack them, so they armed themsevles. If they knew the police weren't going to be there, they wouldn't have done so. We've seen this in many other protests.
That's funny. When Canada starts putting up mass surveillance cameras to start spying on their citizens, and punishing them for going certain places at certain times, you may just see that.
Yes, like I said, when they know the police are coming, they're going to arm themselves.
If the police stop showing up, those sticks are irrelevant.
If the police completely stop showing up, so will the sticks. Unless the govt keeps sending mainland thugs of course, but that's another issue.
If that means nobody gets hurt, no property is damaged, and people simply use their right to protest, why are you mocking it?
Yup apparently after all this time, it may be too late to turn back. Crowds will fight triads, and here you see they will attack their "businesses", as they will fight police
The instigator did not gave peace a chance. It was just one week of calm, and then the people had to revert back to mob justice. What about all the effort all the peaceful protester put in? Are you saying that it was a waste of time? I'm rooting for peace, not mocking the instigator.
The city is just functioning on rumour and accusations now. Just being suspected of being a sympathizer is enough to be justify any type of violence. Anarchy is seen as the only path to justice and order.
The instigator did not gave peace a chance. It was just one week of calm, and then the people had to revert back to mob justice. What about all the effort all the peaceful protester put in? Are you saying that it was a waste of time? I'm rooting for peace, not mocking the instigator.
The city is just functioning on rumour and accusations now. Just being suspected of being a sympathizer is enough to be justify any type of violence. Anarchy is seen as the only path to justice and order.
Sigh, Hong Kong is really dying
I haven't seen any indication that "being a sympathizer" will cause people to attack you. Definitely people will argue with you if you are going to support an insane tyrannical fascist regime. But that's going to happen in any democratic country.
Being a known member of the triad groups that have been attacking protesters and citizens though... well you posted the video of what happened to that mahjong parlour... Police and triads are going to be targeted for obvious reasons.
I do agree that way too much is going on rumour and accusations.
HK is definitely dying, exactly what Beijing wants. If there wasn't so much international money here, it would be an extension of SZ by now.
I haven't seen any indication that "being a sympathizer" will cause people to attack you. Definitely people will argue with you if you are going to support an insane tyrannical fascist regime. But that's going to happen in any democratic country.
Being a known member of the triad groups that have been attacking protesters and citizens though... well you posted the video of what happened to that mahjong parlour... Police and triads are going to be targeted for obvious reasons.
I do agree that way too much is going on rumour and accusations.
HK is definitely dying, exactly what Beijing wants. If there wasn't so much international money here, it would be an extension of SZ by now.
The five demand include amnesty for all those arrest for the protest. Where does one draw the line on who is just protesting and who is using this as excuse for anarchy, vigilantism. When every single act of violence is excuse because of public anger and indiscriminate criticism of the police despite of the immediate context of the situation. It make any these demand hard to met for any government.
Ammesty for all arrested = people are justify in using violence when they are angry
Independent review of police conduct = the police must admit fault to everything regardless of context
The five demand include amnesty for all those arrest for the protest. Where does one draw the line on who is just protesting and who is using this as excuse for anarchy, vigilantism. When every single act of violence is excuse because of public anger and indiscriminate criticism of the police despite of the immediate context of the situation. It make any these demand hard to met for any government.
Ammesty for all arrested = people are justify in using violence when they are angry
Independent review of police conduct = the police must admit fault to everything regardless of context
Where does it go from here?
The request for amnesty was made when people were declared rioters, when there was never a declared riot. I hope if there ever is a negotiation, the civilians will accept that these are the ones they should be focusing on, and not the ones fighting the cops and breaking triad property.
If a protester can justify action against corrupt police or triad gangsters, fine. But they have to accept that they are still breaking the law.
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