You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
already fucking know there's gonna be less people at the voting booth next month (shit that impacts us way more directly) than HK this China that protests in Canada
I also disagree with vandalizing MTR stations, but that's not even within the same galaxy as what the police have been doing on a regular basis.
The two "sides" are so disproportionate in their actions, no reasonable critical thinker would equate their actions remotely. To say "both sides are violent' is to completely dismiss just how bad the police have been, and that is not acceptable. Not only should they not be violent, they should be protecting and serving their citizens. They are literally doing the opposite of that. They are literally terrorists.
When protesters start attacking random people (not police) and injuring and maiming them, sexually assaulting women, and other acts of violence equivalent to tear gassing bystanders and press, there's really no "two sides" to this. There are terrorists, and there are people being terrorized. Some are reacting more violently than others, but it's not even close (so far).
The reason the topic of the protests is changed is due to the govt and police reaction to the original protests. Of COURSE it changed - it had to. They knew they were fighting against something bad when they started protesting against the bill, and all that happened was a glimpse of just how bad it could be, in how the police and govt reacted. That made them fight even harder, and will continue to do so.
Footage finally came out of protesters getting paid to protest...
It was pro-China protesters at IFC, but still, I guess it does happen after all
(actually there has been evidence of this kind of thing going on for as long as I can remember. Everything from paying people to protest, to paying them to vote). If they can't force you to love china with violence, they can at least dupe some people with money I guess.
Their demonstration was drowned out by locals, singing their new national anthem, and chanting over top of them.
if you look at any top 3 super power nations/empires on any timeline in recorded history... you'd kinda see the same shit.
and the only way you can rise to the top 3 is through manipulation, twisting arms, and breaking knee caps... because the game you play means if you don't do those things, someone else will do it to you and climb above you to sit with the other top 2.
when you get to that size and power, you flop your big belly into other people's faces unintentionally. you're too big to not matter. some people will hate you just for being you. but they're too stupid to realise, if they ever made it to the top 3, they'd be doing the exact fucking same thing, but their own way... but just as brutal and manipulative.
they'll want you to stop doing all the things they think are unfair and unjust, except they dont realise that that'll never happen, because being the top 3 is more important than what they think or feel or anything. it's more important than their lives. literally.
it's the nature of the game everyone's forced into.
take a step back and just look at anything, being top 3 of anything in the world. imagine if you were... how many haters and other people are trying to take you down? blaming anything and everything on whatever actions you do. spreading lies and propaganda. sure some of your shit might be good, some may be actually bad... but it got you to the top 3.
there's nothing you can say, or do, or anything... to anyone that's the top 3 of anything, to make them stop trying to stay up there.
their philosophies and ideals and actions that got them up there.
like telling mike tyson he's a retarded woman beater when he was the world champ. you're just gonna get beat. u know why? cuz he's was top 3 of his shit. and when you're top 3, you can't be wrong, because the game is staying top 3 and your mentality and methods work. the only people that can potentially beat you are the other 2 people with you. not anyone else. and they know that. and no member of the top 3 is willing to risk their shit fucking with another top player, cuz they could get knocked down out of the top league. the most they'll do is shit talk each other. until they actually step on each other's toes, physically... then they might fight... maybe.
but as long as you're just dealing with your own internal shit, as a top 3 player, no ones gonna interfere. and you'll always win... and if the game gets too hard, you just stretch the timeline another 1-3 generations, you'll just win later. lol.
I think Japan is a bad example. they're pretty well known for the atrocities they commit when they're an invading force.
defiitely trampling on human rights of other asian countries
if you look at any top 3 super power nations/empires on any timeline in recorded history... you'd kinda see the same shit.
and the only way you can rise to the top 3 is through manipulation, twisting arms, and breaking knee caps... because the game you play means if you don't do those things, someone else will do it to you and climb above you to sit with the other top 2.
when you get to that size and power, you flop your big belly into other people's faces unintentionally. you're too big to not matter. some people will hate you just for being you. but they're too stupid to realise, if they ever made it to the top 3, they'd be doing the exact fucking same thing, but their own way... but just as brutal and manipulative.
they'll want you to stop doing all the things they think are unfair and unjust, except they dont realise that that'll never happen, because being the top 3 is more important than what they think or feel or anything. it's more important than their lives. literally.
it's the nature of the game everyone's forced into.
take a step back and just look at anything, being top 3 of anything in the world. imagine if you were... how many haters and other people are trying to take you down? blaming anything and everything on whatever actions you do. spreading lies and propaganda. sure some of your shit might be good, some may be actually bad... but it got you to the top 3.
there's nothing you can say, or do, or anything... to anyone that's the top 3 of anything, to make them stop trying to stay up there.
their philosophies and ideals and actions that got them up there.
like telling mike tyson he's a retarded woman beater when he was the world champ. you're just gonna get beat. u know why? cuz he's was top 3 of his shit. and when you're top 3, you can't be wrong, because the game is staying top 3 and your mentality and methods work. the only people that can potentially beat you are the other 2 people with you. not anyone else. and they know that. and no member of the top 3 is willing to risk their shit fucking with another top player, cuz they could get knocked down out of the top league. the most they'll do is shit talk each other. until they actually step on each other's toes, physically... then they might fight... maybe.
but as long as you're just dealing with your own internal shit, as a top 3 player, no ones gonna interfere. and you'll always win... and if the game gets too hard, you just stretch the timeline another 1-3 generations, you'll just win later. lol.
it's. clear. as. mud.
it's almost as if there's some sort of ceiling. Like it's cyclical
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
I thought this article was pretty interesting. Objectively, it highlights how big the chasm is between the two sides, even when there are no anger or yelling or violence.
However, sometime after reading it, I'm not sure if Victor Feng is all that representative of the pro-China camp. He speaks of country/community first, and individual last. It doesn't seem always true considering the negative news that has come from China such as the milk powder issues, the fake rice, fake eggs, capital flight, etc. I definitely don't equate those six figure supercar drivers with parent money being very country/community first.
CCP always talking about hong kong Independence was the cause of the protest... now its really starting to go that way
__________________ There's a phallic symbol infront of my car
Quote:
MG1: in fact, a new term needs to make its way into the American dictionary. Trump............ he's such a "Trump" = ultimate insult. Like, "yray, you're such a trump."
bcrdukes yray fucked bcrdukes up the nose
dapperfied yraisis
dapperfied yray so waisis
FastAnna you literally talk out your ass
FastAnna i really cant
FastAnna yray i cant stand you
I thought this article was pretty interesting. Objectively, it highlights how big the chasm is between the two sides, even when there are no anger or yelling or violence.
However, sometime after reading it, I'm not sure if Victor Feng is all that representative of the pro-China camp. He speaks of country/community first, and individual last. It doesn't seem always true considering the negative news that has come from China such as the milk powder issues, the fake rice, fake eggs, capital flight, etc. I definitely don't equate those six figure supercar drivers with parent money being very country/community first.
I thought that was a great article as well and the two camps fundemantal difference of value (individual first vs nation first) is definately why both sides have trouble understand each other.
consumer product issue is a national issue and it is treated as such once discovered by the public. Why does dubious business practice such as fake food/product happens alot in China? Well it can be argue that they are indirectly following a national goal dictated by the CCP, which is economic progression with limited restriction. Figure out how to make money first and than work out the details later. Basically Chinese economy in a nutshell. As for rich kids showing off their parent's money. Let be objective here, chinese kids are not the only one does this. This seems to be a common behaviour of a financially spoiled child.
In terms of capital flight, if you looks at it from the point of view of these people. It is a matter nation > and than individual. Those that are moving their capital aboard, did ride the gravy train with CCP from poverty to properity. What you are are seeing now is them taking care of the individual after they have contribute in their way to the nation for the past several decades.
Even within this thread you can see the exact same divide when talking about specific incident.
For example on the numerous police brutality incidents
Pro-democracy:
-Police excessive force is erroding personal rights, it is not safe for individual hongers on the street anymore.
Pro-china:
-Rioter are breaking down the stablitiy of the society, breaking public properties and seperating a nation. And police (even if they acted inapprioritate) was responding to these.
CCP knows their people and thus they feed them the apporiate information to incite an reaction. AKA highlighting how Hk is affecting the nation.
Just the same Honger are using the same method to incite an reaction from the western crowd that like them also hold individuality above nationality.
I thought that was a great article as well and the two camps fundemantal difference of value (individual first vs nation first) is definately why both sides have trouble understand each other.
consumer product issue is a national issue and it is treated as such once discovered by the public. Why does dubious business practice such as fake food/product happens alot in China? Well it can be argue that they are indirectly following a national goal dictated by the CCP, which is economic progression with limited restriction. Figure out how to make money first and than work out the details later. Basically Chinese economy in a nutshell. As for rich kids showing off their parent's money. Let be objective here, chinese kids are not the only one does this. This seems to be a common behaviour of a financially spoiled child.
In terms of capital flight, if you looks at it from the point of view of these people. It is a matter nation > and than individual. Those that are moving their capital aboard, did ride the gravy train with CCP from poverty to properity. What you are are seeing now is them taking care of the individual after they have contribute in their way to the nation for the past several decades.
Even within this thread you can see the exact same divide when talking about specific incident.
For example on the numerous police brutality incidents
Pro-democracy:
-Police excessive force is erroding personal rights, it is not safe for individual hongers on the street anymore.
Pro-china:
-Rioter are breaking down the stablitiy of the society, breaking public properties and seperating a nation. And police (even if they acted inapprioritate) was responding to these.
CCP knows their people and thus they feed them the apporiate information to incite an reaction. AKA highlighting how Hk is affecting the nation.
Just the same Honger are using the same method to incite an reaction from the western crowd that like them also hold individuality above nationality.
The latter part I agree with you. Both are appealing to an audience they feel has the most chance of listening, it's all a bit targeted. There's a lot of propaganda-esque stuff coming from the protester side as well as the Chinese government, it's just not nearly as blatant.
I however disagree with your capital flight reasoning. To truly buy into the country/community first ideology, they shouldn't be taking that money out of the country. Instead they should be spending that within the country to make it stronger. At least, if you want to enjoy these capital goods, enjoy it within China. I understand taxes are a bitch in China for foreign luxury goods, but that money goes back towards the greater good. By removing that money, you are now "robbing" your own community.
With that in mind, the people who should be enjoying their lives are the parents who have put in the hard work, and have stuck with it from poverty to prosperity. If we really take the communist model to heart, these kids who spend their parent's money haven't paid their dues yet and should not be allowed to enjoy the fruits that other people have worked hard to grow.
Indeed the consumer product scams are a national issue, but it's also again people putting themselves first before the community. They put their fellow countrymen in harm's way so they can profit from it. To an extent, though it's stretching the definition a little, Chinese people crossing into HK and buying up all their milk powder is also putting self above community. For awhile, there was a shortage of formula in HK and that's harming a place they are arguing right now as "part of the country".
China is more capitalist than majority of the western world. And as we all know capitalism and a society that worship economic powerness brings about greed. It is unavoidable
Here comes the problem of governing 1 billion people. Preserving one’s self interest is an intrinsic human quality. It is what make us human. So how does a government mobilize 1 billion people of various educational level and various social class for their common goal and the same time remain the only party in control of the country? You have to open one eye and close one eye. As long as the train is heading in the right direction, hiccups along the way are forgiven in order to reach the destination.
Capital flight actually have nothing to do with tax evasion. It is MUCH easier to evade taxes in China than to try and do the same in many of the western country these capital flees to.
It is about mostly the next generation and leaving an escape path for themselves if things goes sour in China. It doesn’t matter how high you climb in china. You will still be in trouble if you get in the way of CCP. Becuase when it comes down to judgement day in China. CCP/the nation will always win over the individual. Nation always comes before the individual.
Anyhow our of the 1 billion people in China. Those that have capital to flight is still a very very small minority of the population and 99% of the time their wealth is made in China and they have brought some kind of benefit to the society as a whole. Look at princess huawei, she has a couple mansion in Canada. Has a Canadian passport yet nobody in China thought of her as traitor. Instead they made absolutely no comment regarding her oversea capital, all the energy was focus on what her and huawei brought to China and the chinese people. Strange to to think she is a national hero for chinese where majority of the people is unabale to travel aboard and unable to own dual citizenship. She checks everything an individuality society would consider to be a traitor, yet she is not due to huawei’s contribution to the Chinese society and economy.
To add to that Chinese is thriving domestics market. The mainlander you see flashing their money oversea that is just the tip of the iceberg compare to them flashing and using their money within China. If you judge community contribution just as a consumer spending. The 1% of China is a major customer of their own economy.
As for rich kids being asshole. Again this is a parenting issue. An issue that can arise in any society and any ethnicity. They are the outlier of the society and not the norm.
Supposedly he was "asking for it" because he's anti protester
Edit: looks like pro china protesters are also assaulting people, can't link it though, it's on wechat, but that's happening too this weekend
China thugs in blue shirts are all over the city starting fights with protesters and singers. This isn't the occasional nutjob or violent person though, it's organized terrorism.
I think the singing protests are seen as being too peaceful, so forces were sent out to cause problems. And of course, idiots as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed
Supposedly he was "asking for it" because he's anti protester
Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed
Supposedly ppl were trying to steal the Chinese flag, so the pro china protesters started beating em
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,668
Thanked 10,388 Times in 3,914 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
I was gonna repeat myself but thought it'd be redundant so I edited it back, but the first quote u have of mine was my quoting the source I got it from...
Point is protesters are attacking regular civilians...
There's also some nut throwing acid bombs into crowds again
I was gonna repeat myself but thought it'd be redundant so I edited it back, but the first quote u have of mine was my quoting the source I got it from...
Point is protesters are attacking regular civilians...
There's also some nut throwing acid bombs into crowds again
Well if you watch the video, people are grabbing flags because they're being beat with them (and bamboo sticks)
Other altercations are due to people taking pictures up close of protesters faces
Once the violence clears out, people start singing again
In Tin Sui Wai though, people are setting up barricades
China is more capitalist than majority of the western world. And as we all know capitalism and a society that worship economic powerness brings about greed. It is unavoidable
Here comes the problem of governing 1 billion people. Preserving one’s self interest is an intrinsic human quality. It is what make us human. So how does a government mobilize 1 billion people of various educational level and various social class for their common goal and the same time remain the only party in control of the country? You have to open one eye and close one eye. As long as the train is heading in the right direction, hiccups along the way are forgiven in order to reach the destination.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threezero
Capital flight actually have nothing to do with tax evasion. It is MUCH easier to evade taxes in China than to try and do the same in many of the western country these capital flees to.
It is about mostly the next generation and leaving an escape path for themselves if things goes sour in China. It doesn’t matter how high you climb in china. You will still be in trouble if you get in the way of CCP. Becuase when it comes down to judgement day in China. CCP/the nation will always win over the individual. Nation always comes before the individual.
Also agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by threezero
Anyhow our of the 1 billion people in China. Those that have capital to flight is still a very very small minority of the population and 99% of the time their wealth is made in China and they have brought some kind of benefit to the society as a whole. Look at princess huawei, she has a couple mansion in Canada. Has a Canadian passport yet nobody in China thought of her as traitor. Instead they made absolutely no comment regarding her oversea capital, all the energy was focus on what her and huawei brought to China and the chinese people. Strange to to think she is a national hero for chinese where majority of the people is unabale to travel aboard and unable to own dual citizenship. She checks everything an individuality society would consider to be a traitor, yet she is not due to huawei’s contribution to the Chinese society and economy.
To add to that Chinese is thriving domestics market. The mainlander you see flashing their money oversea that is just the tip of the iceberg compare to them flashing and using their money within China. If you judge community contribution just as a consumer spending. The 1% of China is a major customer of their own economy.
As for rich kids being asshole. Again this is a parenting issue. An issue that can arise in any society and any ethnicity. They are the outlier of the society and not the norm.
I find that double standard crazy. It's as if once you contribute enough you can do no wrong. Sounds almost like how a private company is run where you don't have to be responsible for shareholders.
I don't judge community contribution as just that. However the rich didn't become rich by themselves, and spending is a way of giving back. It's true though they do spend a lot local and what we see oversees is the tip of the iceberg.
Yeah it's a parenting issue, but if those kids needed to pay their dues to attain their standing or wealth, it wouldn't be an issue.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
