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MG1: in fact, a new term needs to make its way into the American dictionary. Trump............ he's such a "Trump" = ultimate insult. Like, "yray, you're such a trump."
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I usually don't side with the protestors once they start fighting the cops, but the point blank shot was definitely not justified. You can see the officer run in, kick the protestor and then aimed and fired.
However, I do think the police officer was trying to help his colleague who was getting stomped.
It is, it's how normal people think and I feel pretty good about feeling that I shouldn't attack a cop even if he/she is a complete prick because you know I may be shot and killed but it's ok because I'm fighting the good fight right? fuck you
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badhobz
I’m surprised more people haven’t been killed already.
I remember you posting about China awhile and I just want to add to it.
As I mention I went back to visit my mom and dad's relatives back in Nov 2018 in a 3/4 tier city and everything was kinda of crappy.
Now fast forward to Sept 2019 went back to Beijing with my wife to visit her family (last time I was in Beijing before this trip was in 2014) and man things change so much. When comparing Beijing to Vancouver, Vancouver have no change one bit. There are so much more restaurants, malls, theaters, things to do in Beijing. We could literally order mid night snack at 2am and have to delivery to your apartment in 10mins. Restaurants and bars open till 4am sometimes even 24/7. And food is cheap and good and best of all none of the tipping crap we have in Vancouver.
There are also public washroom everywhere. Although they are not the seated ones we used to have in Van you literally don't have to hold your shit/pee in there are washroom every few blocks and to my surprise is actually very clean and well maintained. Everyone and their mom owns a car or two. There are subway everywhere so going out doesn't mean you have to drive (which you really don't coz there are traffic jam everywhere). Using wechat pay to pay for things is so much more easier than using cash or credit card (first time I been about to do this since my wife add money to my wechat and alipay). With a little above middle wage salary you can live a very very confortable life in Beijing. Literally my wife took me spa, facial, have my feet clean for like $300 RMB and that includes cupping! Try that in Van and you are paying close to $1000RMB if not more. Service is good too in Beijing. We had our wedding lunch there and basically we got double the red bad money then what we go in Van (had 2 weddings coz her family is in Beijing). The middle class is growing a lot in China and lot's of people are happy about it. Also is not just money is the improvement of life and quality. I mean they have unlimited data plan for dirt cheap, bike sharing for cheap (something like 5RMB for 30mins and after you are done you can just like the bike and leave it there).
Now there are some negatives to it as well. Too many cars lead to major traffic jam. Also with too many cars there are issue with parking. In apartment complex is next to impossible to find parking since people like to park for free. Is pretty much free for all and you see cars park on side walks. There are literally no rules for crossing the cross walk. You have be look out for people turning left and right on the the corsswalk. Too many people so taking the subway is a nightmare during rush hour. Is also very loud with people talking, cars horning, construction etc etc. Security is also very tight in every subway station your bag have to go through x ray and they search you. If you have a drink they might ask you to take a sip as well.
But overall China's middle class population is doing very well and growing so I can see they don't really care what's happening in HK.
Hong Kong people think Mainlanders are brainwashed. Truth is when government creates an environment that enables you and you family/ relatives to prosper, that is all that matter for the average person. That is not brainwashed. Brainwashed is like North Korea when the whole country is broke AF.
Talking to educated people, college students from the top school Beida or Tsinghua, you'd be hard pressed to find one that believes in that brainwashed nonsense. The young and educated generation there ooze energy and optimism, which is what you want. Chineses are proud people, you aint brainwashing nobody there.
Nobody will even say anything unless US step up. But what exactly the US is going to do. Help a region renege on a previously agreed upon deal and for them to become independent? That isn't a good look. That's just asking for war, which nobody wants. You think US will give up Alaska or Texas up if somebody ask? They'd be sending in the army and the national guard. I doubt they are going to lift a finger. Takes time but sooner or later Hong Kong will be fully under China.
There are so much more restaurants, malls, theaters, things to do in Beijing. We could literally order mid night snack at 2am and have to delivery to your apartment in 10mins. (first time I been about to do this since my wife add money to my wechat and alipay).
Once you land, you don't even need to buy an Octopus card / Compass card, it just gets loaded onto your cell phone. For the entire 5 days, never touched physical coins / bills. From entrance fees, eating out, taxi and even freaking night market when things are 1-10 dollars CDN, zero.
Heck, even when the DD app on taxi, the guy refunded me 2 dollars cause it was longer than expected.
Yup,it's amazing how China has been able to do that solely cause of that one app is incorporated so well within its ecosystem. Our FB + youtube + google + platforms are all private with separate IP, Western culture wouldn't be able to do what China is able to do with a flick of a switch (largely due to Tencent & gov't backing).
Are people in China brainwashed is a good debate. Top five remaining Communist countries in the world are China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and
Vietnam. Someone was right, I would consider N Korea being brainwashed, China is more like... limit to access to information, per say but I wouldn't classify they as a brainwashed country.
Hong Kong people think Mainlanders are brainwashed. Truth is when government creates an environment that enables you and you family/ relatives to prosper, that is all that matter for the average person. That is not brainwashed. Brainwashed is like North Korea when the whole country is broke AF.
Talking to educated people, college students from the top school Beida or Tsinghua, you'd be hard pressed to find one that believes in that brainwashed nonsense. The young and educated generation there ooze energy and optimism, which is what you want. Chineses are proud people, you aint brainwashing nobody there.
Nobody will even say anything unless US step up. But what exactly the US is going to do. Help a region renege on a previously agreed upon deal and for them to become independent? That isn't a good look. That's just asking for war, which nobody wants. You think US will give up Alaska or Texas up if somebody ask? They'd be sending in the army and the national guard. I doubt they are going to lift a finger. Takes time but sooner or later Hong Kong will be fully under China.
I don't think it's a matter of brainwashing, but instead mainlanders living in a constant state of fear of falling into the hands of China's arbitrary judiciary system where the courts are subordinate to the communist party. Imagine being constantly monitored and ranked on a social credit system, living in fear of being blacklisted having your life ruined or thrown in jail
brainwashing the middle class/eduated? of course not
exert a great degree of influence through propaganda, social rating, censorship? hell yes
texans/alaskans have the right to vote and the majority of them aren't asking to break off from the USA
where as many of these HKers are begging for external support
This isn't like protesting in Canada, they aren't protesting against a pipeline or gay rights, they are protesting to defend their democracy which is quite clearly under attack by the PRC.
The protesters in HK have typically been extremely well behaved during past protests (Think back to the Umbrella Revolution of 2014), the violent and destructive protests occurring as of late are not indicative of a people that have somehow turned evil over the past 5 years, it's indicative of the desperation felt by the people of HK and the belief that extreme force applied by the HK police needs to be met by extreme resistance.
I don't know how anyone can side with the PRC on this.
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They are wantonly destroying the city, and attacking police viciously, they aren't protesting, these are just groups of anarchists hiding within peaceful protesters.
You can't conflate the cause of the protesters with these kids who are simply out to wreak havoc, its a disservice to their cause.
You can't expect the police to sit back and allow
a) the city be destroyed
b) fellow officers, and themselves, to be beaten
Even then, the police have been restrained in their response, that officer fired off one shot, he didn't unload his firearm as we'd expect, and even after that fact, these guys still threw a molotovs in the middle of the police
This isn't like protesting in Canada, they aren't protesting against a pipeline or gay rights, they are protesting to defend their democracy which is quite clearly under attack by the PRC.
The protesters in HK have typically been extremely well behaved during past protests (Think back to the Umbrella Revolution of 2014), the violent and destructive protests occurring as of late are not indicative of a people that have somehow turned evil over the past 5 years, it's indicative of the desperation felt by the people of HK and the belief that extreme force applied by the HK police needs to be met by extreme resistance.
I don't know how anyone can side with the PRC on this.
Despite all the name calling. I dont think anyone here is actually siding with the PRC from the perspective of a Hong Kong resident.
Most people jumping in defense of PRC was in the context of Mainland living, and mainlander being call brainwashed. But yea, trying to see from the other perspective and you will be call a facist.
Discussion about police behaviour on this thread has alot of back and forth. Mostly specific to the incident being discuss, protestor has been in the wrong. Police has also been in the wrong. It seems like you will be call a facist or Chinazi if you dont agree 100% with everything happening in the protest and excuse every wrong doing by the protestor.
Nobody here has claimed that PRC has impeccable history, or a just judicial system.
Some of the so called "facist" here has spoken out against police action, the injustice of various CCP intervention. Apprantly it doesn't matter as long as you still agree with anything CCP = facist china lover. Difference of opioion and the ability to agree to disagree is the foundation of freedom of speech?
Emotion and tension is so high right now in HK any discussion that doesn't fit the general narrative of "Fuck China Fuck the Police" will be label as a traitor, chinazi or worse lynch in public.
My parents lived through the cultural revolution, and what is happening in HK is exactly like that was happening on the cultural revolution days. Agree with me or go the hell
Hong Kong people think Mainlanders are brainwashed. Truth is when government creates an environment that enables you and you family/ relatives to prosper, that is all that matter for the average person. That is not brainwashed. Brainwashed is like North Korea when the whole country is broke AF.
Talking to educated people, college students from the top school Beida or Tsinghua, you'd be hard pressed to find one that believes in that brainwashed nonsense. The young and educated generation there ooze energy and optimism, which is what you want. Chineses are proud people, you aint brainwashing nobody there.
Nobody will even say anything unless US step up. But what exactly the US is going to do. Help a region renege on a previously agreed upon deal and for them to become independent? That isn't a good look. That's just asking for war, which nobody wants. You think US will give up Alaska or Texas up if somebody ask? They'd be sending in the army and the national guard. I doubt they are going to lift a finger. Takes time but sooner or later Hong Kong will be fully under China.
The notion of being "brainwashed" in China is not about to think in a particular way. Quite contrary... it's about NOT to think in a particular way.
The whole education system, as well as society as a whole, is to have a moral value of not to question. They don't promote (and dare I say they even discourage) critical thinking, freedom of many kinds and even selfism.
It's all about the GREATER GOOD, the country and recently, the CCP.
This creates huge social problems where people care NOTHING but money and power. There is no compassion for others. One just keeps it to him/herself.
There is a REASON why with all the competition (academically) in their education system (my son is scratching his balls everyday when he gets home from schools, my friend's kid, also in grade 2 like my son studies everyday until midnight) and YET very few, if any, major breakthroughs/innovations in science come from China. Because academias can't think by themselves. Everything is about what their boss/upper authorities want to see/hear them do.
Money doesn't buy one's happiness... and to an extent, also doesn't measure the success of one. Nevertheless, that's not the case in China.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe
There is a REASON why with all the competition (academically) in their education system (my son is scratching his balls everyday when he gets home from schools, my friend's kid, also in grade 2 like my son studies everyday until midnight) and YET very few, if any, major breakthroughs/innovations in science come from China. Because academias can't think by themselves. Everything is about what their boss/upper authorities want to see/hear them do.
A sign of innovation of a nation is the number of patents filed, and China files twice as many as the US. Granted that's not the greatest measure, as there are many things to consider when it comes to patents, like the quality of them, if they're actual new inventions, or merely slight changes to what's already made, etc, etc, but still, it's a sign that the engine is churning
I remember you posting about China awhile and I just want to add to it.
As I mention I went back to visit my mom and dad's relatives back in Nov 2018 in a 3/4 tier city and everything was kinda of crappy.
Now fast forward to Sept 2019 went back to Beijing with my wife to visit her family (last time I was in Beijing before this trip was in 2014) and man things change so much. When comparing Beijing to Vancouver, Vancouver have no change one bit. There are so much more restaurants, malls, theaters, things to do in Beijing. We could literally order mid night snack at 2am and have to delivery to your apartment in 10mins. Restaurants and bars open till 4am sometimes even 24/7. And food is cheap and good and best of all none of the tipping crap we have in Vancouver.
There are also public washroom everywhere. Although they are not the seated ones we used to have in Van you literally don't have to hold your shit/pee in there are washroom every few blocks and to my surprise is actually very clean and well maintained. Everyone and their mom owns a car or two. There are subway everywhere so going out doesn't mean you have to drive (which you really don't coz there are traffic jam everywhere). Using wechat pay to pay for things is so much more easier than using cash or credit card (first time I been about to do this since my wife add money to my wechat and alipay). With a little above middle wage salary you can live a very very confortable life in Beijing. Literally my wife took me spa, facial, have my feet clean for like $300 RMB and that includes cupping! Try that in Van and you are paying close to $1000RMB if not more. Service is good too in Beijing. We had our wedding lunch there and basically we got double the red bad money then what we go in Van (had 2 weddings coz her family is in Beijing). The middle class is growing a lot in China and lot's of people are happy about it. Also is not just money is the improvement of life and quality. I mean they have unlimited data plan for dirt cheap, bike sharing for cheap (something like 5RMB for 30mins and after you are done you can just like the bike and leave it there).
Now there are some negatives to it as well. Too many cars lead to major traffic jam. Also with too many cars there are issue with parking. In apartment complex is next to impossible to find parking since people like to park for free. Is pretty much free for all and you see cars park on side walks. There are literally no rules for crossing the cross walk. You have be look out for people turning left and right on the the corsswalk. Too many people so taking the subway is a nightmare during rush hour. Is also very loud with people talking, cars horning, construction etc etc. Security is also very tight in every subway station your bag have to go through x ray and they search you. If you have a drink they might ask you to take a sip as well.
But overall China's middle class population is doing very well and growing so I can see they don't really care what's happening in HK.
lol, good job comparing a cluster of cities with a pop of 2.5m to a city of 21.5m.. of course there is going to be a lot more stuff.. there is nearly 10x the people...
I remember you posting about China awhile and I just want to add to it.
As I mention I went back to visit my mom and dad's relatives back in Nov 2018 in a 3/4 tier city and everything was kinda of crappy.
Now fast forward to Sept 2019 went back to Beijing with my wife to visit her family (last time I was in Beijing before this trip was in 2014) and man things change so much. When comparing Beijing to Vancouver, Vancouver have no change one bit. There are so much more restaurants, malls, theaters, things to do in Beijing. We could literally order mid night snack at 2am and have to delivery to your apartment in 10mins. Restaurants and bars open till 4am sometimes even 24/7. And food is cheap and good and best of all none of the tipping crap we have in Vancouver.
There are also public washroom everywhere. Although they are not the seated ones we used to have in Van you literally don't have to hold your shit/pee in there are washroom every few blocks and to my surprise is actually very clean and well maintained. Everyone and their mom owns a car or two. There are subway everywhere so going out doesn't mean you have to drive (which you really don't coz there are traffic jam everywhere). Using wechat pay to pay for things is so much more easier than using cash or credit card (first time I been about to do this since my wife add money to my wechat and alipay). With a little above middle wage salary you can live a very very confortable life in Beijing. Literally my wife took me spa, facial, have my feet clean for like $300 RMB and that includes cupping! Try that in Van and you are paying close to $1000RMB if not more. Service is good too in Beijing. We had our wedding lunch there and basically we got double the red bad money then what we go in Van (had 2 weddings coz her family is in Beijing). The middle class is growing a lot in China and lot's of people are happy about it. Also is not just money is the improvement of life and quality. I mean they have unlimited data plan for dirt cheap, bike sharing for cheap (something like 5RMB for 30mins and after you are done you can just like the bike and leave it there).
Now there are some negatives to it as well. Too many cars lead to major traffic jam. Also with too many cars there are issue with parking. In apartment complex is next to impossible to find parking since people like to park for free. Is pretty much free for all and you see cars park on side walks. There are literally no rules for crossing the cross walk. You have be look out for people turning left and right on the the corsswalk. Too many people so taking the subway is a nightmare during rush hour. Is also very loud with people talking, cars horning, construction etc etc. Security is also very tight in every subway station your bag have to go through x ray and they search you. If you have a drink they might ask you to take a sip as well.
But overall China's middle class population is doing very well and growing so I can see they don't really care what's happening in HK.
They are wantonly destroying the city, and attacking police viciously, they aren't protesting, these are just groups of anarchists hiding within peaceful protesters.
You can't conflate the cause of the protesters with these kids who are simply out to wreak havoc, its a disservice to their cause.
You can't expect the police to sit back and allow
a) the city be destroyed
b) fellow officers, and themselves, to be beaten
Even then, the police have been restrained in their response, that officer fired off one shot, he didn't unload his firearm as we'd expect, and even after that fact, these guys still threw a molotovs in the middle of the police
How anyone can condone that is just mad
Protesters are targeting 3 things with their destruction:
-Police and police property
-Confirmed fascists and their property (including government facilities - MTR stations)
-Triads and their property
No members of the public are in any danger from the protesters, unless they declare themselves as fascists. Being a fascist in a liberal revolution, of course you're going to be targeted. This protest has been extremely non violent in terms of surrounding property and random citizens. The only stores th at get vandalized are fascists, the only cars that get vandalised are people who try to run over protesters.
When someone declares themselves as fascist publicly (such as Maxim's and Yoshinoya) they are declaring war on the protesters... So their property gets targeted. Not the employees, mind you, most of whom are definitely supporting the movement as average citizens.
When triads go out to attack people, they are going to fight back.
When police go out to attack people, they are going to fight back. Remember, this isn't Canada or UK where the police are still considered civil servants that follow the rule of law. Right or wrong, I'm not one to judge, but they are considered terrorists who are out to injure/degrade/sexually assault citizens. They collude with triads to harm citizens. There are new cases every day of all this happening.
So what's the solution? When the police deliberately call an assembly illegal, in order to be able to arrest people, all it does is ensure only the most extreme protesters show up. They aren't preventing any vandalism from happening. And again, there's no violence against citizens, so they aren't preventing that either.
All they're doing is going out there to crack skulls, tear gas, pepper spray, dye water canons, and in turn they get ganged up on when separated from their ranks. And from there, they escalate it to using live rounds on people.
Obviously the police aren't accomplishing anything in terms of lowering violence, preventing vandalism to fascist property, or even huge marches. All they're doing is providing targets for violence, and now putting peoples' lives at risk since they started using live rounds.
My solution, at least they should CONSIDER, just don't go out at all when there's a protest. Let the protesters do their march, don't show up. People will go home, don't show up. Some people will stay really late, looking for a fight. They may even destroy fascist and government property. Don't show up. Remember, they're going to do this anyway. They'll leave eventually. No cops get poked with poles, no protesters get shot or beaten. Some fascist property gets their windows broken and spray painted (which happens anyway). Much more peaceful in my opinion.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp
There's not many people here, so racism really stands out. PS Don't be mad because a white guy knows more about China than you do
Unless he edited it, a 'laowai' isn't racist, or derogatory, it just means foreigner (laoxiang would mean someone from your hometown) though, I suppose the way he said it, could be construed as being negative.. oO
Unless he edited it, a 'laowai' isn't racist, or derogatory, it just means foreigner (laoxiang would mean someone from your hometown) though, I suppose the way he said it, could be construed as being negative.. oO
Racism is all about context. When you call someone a "fucking laowai" and degrade them, it's racist. Degrading someone's knowledge or opinion because of their race is just about as bad as it gets.
I don't want it to be, and I thought about it for a while before editing, but that is not acceptable here. No ban, no timeout, just an edit and a warning. I hope we can all get along
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp
No members of the public are in any danger from the protesters, unless they declare themselves as fascists. Being a fascist in a liberal revolution, of course you're going to be targeted. This protest has been extremely non violent in terms of surrounding property and random citizens. The only stores th at get vandalized are fascists, the only cars that get vandalised are people who try to run over protesters.
When someone declares themselves as fascist publicly (such as Maxim's and Yoshinoya) they are declaring war on the protesters... So their property gets targeted. Not the employees, mind you, most of whom are definitely supporting the movement as average citizens.
When triads go out to attack people, they are going to fight back
You're basically saying all attacks are justified, and any innocents that are caught up, or victims of violence, aren't innocent.... Uh... Yeah no, that's not how thiggs work
And also, ignoring the fact that people have been beaten after being falsely accused:
But at times the tactics on both sides made little sense and threatened to spin out of control. Petrol and smoke bombs alike were sometimes hurled inexpertly, seriously endangering reporters and passers-by.
...
Then in Wan Chai, protesters decided to set a bonfire right in front of a petrol station that was sandwiched between residential blocks - it was quickly put out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp
Racism is all about context. When you call someone a "fucking laowai" and degrade them, it's racist. Degrading someone's knowledge or opinion because of their race is just about as bad as it gets.
I don't want it to be, and I thought about it for a while before editing, but that is not acceptable here. No ban, no timeout, just an edit and a warning. I hope we can all get along
Yeah I agree I just hope ya didn't think that the term was racist in itself
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