I agree, they should just continue to do peaceful marches. When the cops show up with pepper spray and tear gas, purposefully aiming at heads, shooting eyes out, and cracking their skulls open with batons, they should just go home and maybe try again the next day. That will definitely be effective. SeemsGood

Possible that BNO passport holders will be able to GTFO is HK is invaded and conquered. Good for them!

Looks like transportation is shut down again. Harbor crossing closed, most buses not running. My wife is getting ready for work but I told her to wait and see what happens with the MTR. Her sister is out there now, MTR is barely moving and now cops are telling people to get off the train before it crosses harbor, so she'll have to make her way home now.

3 days in a row, city shut down.

This is worth reading IMO

So a while back you defended the protester’s actions saying they are instigated by cops or they are undercover cop pretending to be protesters. Now you are defending their actions saying it is the only way to effectively get what they want or their message across? Kind of hard to take you seriously when you say you aren’t pro-protester.

By the way, the video that you posted where you said a protester was taking hostage by a cop, I’m not sure if I would call that taking hostage. The guy literally walked towards the cop, all the way to where the cops gun is pointed at his chest. I can’t comment whether the cops action is justified, but if a cop draw a gun on me, my first action definitely won’t be to walk right up to it.

I'm saying, what is your alternative? They can't peacefully protest, they literally aren't allowed to. They can't assemble, it's illegal now. They can't wear masks, it's illegal now. They can't walk in groups, they can't go to school in groups. They can't even play basketball. They can't go for lunch during work. Cops attack and harass them at any given time. Doesn't matter if they're wearing black or a business suit or a school uniform. Carrie Lam said they have no stake in society. She said protesters are the enemy of "the people".

So that didn't work. What's the next step? Disrupt the city. Push it one step further. If they didn't listen to peace, maybe they will listen to money.

They are trying to get something done, forcing the government's hand. Either make the government actually negotiate the demands (many of which are already written into law but are being ignored), or make them invade with military force. Either way, sitting around bashing MTR and triad store windows wasn't enough, so they started disrupting the whole city.

Do I like it? Of course not.It's disrupting my life and the lives of many people. Do I understand it? Of course I do! They are fighting for their future. All I have to do is stop and think, what if I were them. Not enough people do that, we saw it in the Don Cherry thread as well. I don't know why so many people here lack the ability to empathize with people who are in worse conditions than they are. Maybe they just don't care. And that's fine, but if you don't care, you shouldn't be arguing against them. If you want to argue, at least have an open mind, and try to think from the perspective of the oppressed.

You're absolutely right this thread isn't about anyone in particular, but it kind of went that way when you constantly criticized people from the beginning who don't see the objective of the protest, or who can't see this ending well, accomplishing anything significant, or moving in a positive direction.

You were one of the few (or the one) who advocates for a peaceful protest and defended their actions, but now it seems you advocate for more aggressiveness? Kind of seems like you're going back on your own words.

edit:

I feel bad for the people living in Hong Kong. At this point, I'm not sure if fighting for what is right is equal to what is best for the people there.

Yes, I believe that's the only way. This lawlessness they're creating is only allowing the police to act more and more aggressively.

Remember, Hong Kong belongs to everyone. It belongs to Carrie, it belongs to the police, it belongs to the protestors, it belongs to every other citizens who've been affected by it. Hell, it belongs to SkinnyPupp. It's everyone's home.

The goal of a peaceful protest to to win the hearts of everyone that what you're fighting for is worth dying for. You hope from top to bottom, everyone will begin to see that what these young people are striving for is for the greater good of Hong Kong. Not fucking trashing MTR where everyday ordinary citizens requires to use in order to make a living. The fucking rich and powerful doesn't use the MTR.

Lastly, killing Hong Kong's economy won't do anyone good. If China is the one in the way, do you actually thinks China cares about Hong Kong? It's a matter of time a Chinese city will replace Hong Kong's importance. The historic importance of Hong Kong as a port city is already being replaced with the ports in the pearl delta.

it's already gone that way, that's why there are no fucks given

I'm not advocating anything, I'm explaining why people are doing what they're doing. I'm trying to get people to see from different perspectives, since like I said, I think many people here lack that ability (or refuse to use it), which is shocking to me as a Canadian.

You can either agree or disagree with their actions, as can I. There's not much to be said though, other than "I disagree" unless you can say "they should do it this way, and here's why it will work"

Like when I report that people think cops were behind some of the first vandalism attacks, that's all I was doing - reporting it. I'm not saying I think it was cops (though I always acknowledged the possibility). Or when all these suicide bodies turn up, a lot of people say they are covered up murders. I think that is much less possible, but I'm going to put the info out there. When I refer to cops as terrorists, I am referring to the specific few that are terrorising citizens.

I absolutely wish none of this was happening. I wish the HKSAR would continue to run as "one country, two systems". I wish people could elect their own lawmakers and leaders, and run HK autonomically but WITH China for obvious reasons. Going further, I wish the people of mainland China would eventually get the same rights, and maybe unite with ROC with those rights. Be a world leader with freedom and human rights, and in science and climate change technology, because currently that's all America and they aren't exactly a perfect example of these things. Those are MY opinions, not even talking about police brutality, vandalism and rioting, crazy mainlanders biting ears off and gutting people, or extremist protesters lighting fascists on fire.

I can't see it being a curfew; it's only a certain areas affected. Just like people complaining why do people not get notice on school shutdowns earlier like typhoons? Well.. typhoons affect ENTIRE HK, these "protests" are only affecting core areas which happens to be 10% of HK.

My uncle got stuck in his car for 7 hours from 11PM - 5 AM trying to get home. My buddies who were hammered after a night of partying at LKF is fucked and slept at a bar until 7 AM still trying to get home.

See, this is where you get yourself in trouble. How do you know that person is a fascist? It's one person who disagrees with a group of protesters? How does lighting someone on fire not crazy but an extremist?

Might as well replace "you people" with in referencing to this. lol You people biting this group of "you people" lighting fire on certain "you people".

This guy in particular was trying to block protesters from vandalising an MTR station, chasing after them and fighting with them. He later said they are "not chinese" (a common slogan used by pro communists and mainland fascists) and they were "trying to be british" (a xenophobic slur).

If he was simply disagreeing with them, saying that they are going too far with protests, then I wouldn't call him a fascist. However, he took things his own hands physically, arguing pro communist slogans and xenophobic slurs. That's why I called him a fascist. He's a fascist.

There are several others going against protesters, trying to clear roadblocks and brick piles. I don't call them fascists, because they aren't making political statements. Some of them probably just want to get to work and ignore any issues, etc. I still think it's a bad idea for them to do so, but I don't assume they are pro-fascism just because they're clearing bricks.

Mass sit ins is what they should be doing, skip work too, bring the city to an actual standstill, if you get beat, you get beat, it will actually win over the hearts of everyone globally, if you fight back, or try to murder police, or ppl who disagree with you, you get what we have today (nothing)

Except gingers don't really want to skip work, sure ppl in Central will protest during lunch, everyone else will protest on the weekends, students will protest all the time, cuz they get to skip school... what message does that send to the gov't? Nothing

Look at Palestine v Israel, it's been going on for decades, does the world care? Sort of, not really though

Palestinians fight back, what happens? Everyones like oh /shrug it's their fault for fighting (most of rs takes this stance)

Mass sit-ins = get tear gassed and water cannoned by the police

So what's your next idea?

That shit does not work.

Alternative to what? Solving the crisis in HK? Or helping the protesters get what they are demanding?

The important question is, do you agree with their tactics? Correct if I'm wrong, but your latest posts seems to indicate there's a need for it.

I do sincerely believe you wish for the greater good. However, fail me for the lack of critical thinking, but I have seeing some of your posts as anything but reporting facts or explaining people's actions.

In one of your latest posts in defending the protester's action, I really have difficulty in seeing how you manage to defend protester's action and place all the blame on the cop. Don't get me wrong, I think it's ridiculous that the cop pulled out his gun amongst a crowd of citizen.

Terrorist though? Is that your label, or the label you think the protesters are feeling? By the action of the protester that WALKED towards the cop, to the point his chest is on the gun, do you think the protester feel threatened? Scared? If a terrorist points a gun at you, would your first instinct be to walk TOWARDS it?

Hostage? I thought the definition of hostage is that you're taken by force against your will, but why would the protester walk towards the gun?

If your friend is being held hostage, you really think the stupid response is to try to swat the gun away? Wouldn't you agree you would have to be almost mentally handicapped to even think swatting the gun away from a terrorist would be a good idea to save your friend?

I don't think anyone here really minds whether you are pro-protester or not. It's an online forum, everyone can share their opinion.

I really don't want HK to be wiped by CCP and XJP's political aggression, but after seeing some of the radical protesters being insanely aggressive or blocking roads which impacts everyday citizens, it makes me worry about the decreasing sympathy the international community will have for the pro-democracy movement.


Are there any pro-HK protesters condemning these guys or is it just "mob-mentality" at work here?

Something I learned today from my coworkers from HK is that we can't just look at it from the HK POV, we have to be critical about what the China-side & International-side sees as well in order to fullfill the remaining 4 demands.

Most HK people still support what they're doing, even though it's a major inconvenience. People here keep saying "do peaceful sit-ins" and "get support from the international community". Peaceful marches aren't working. Sit-ins aren't working. International statements are ignored. People are ignored and called "enemies".

A while ago we saw peaceful sit-ins in malls, singing songs and chanting slogans. Students lined the entire city with human chains, singing songs and folding peaceful trinkets with paper. What happened? "No stake in society", violent attacks from mentally unstable mainlanders. Then came the police crack downs - pepper spray, violent arrests, tear gas, water cannons. Now when people try to do a peaceful sit-in in a mall or in the streets, it's instantly shut down by riot police. And from there comes the tear gas, affecting children and the elderly. Then the front liner hardcore protesters show up and then comes the fighting back and forth all night.

So it becomes a question of, if you support the 5 demands, even if you can't actually be out there in the streets, and still have to work your 9-5 job, what do you do? Quit telling them to do peaceful sit-ins, because that is a waste of time.

Yeah get beat, get gassed, get arrested, do it everyday tho, let the city go to a standstill, show them tear gas n batons won't stop you

That wins hearts, that wins support, the police won't be able to keep that up without losing international support

Right now some members of parliament/senate of govts around the world wag their finger but that's about it, because ppl aren't completely sold on any plight

Protesters have never done that though, they protest on weekends, go to work on weekdays, they get tear gassed, etc, they fight back, or they instigate, = nothing will happen/come from it

Protesters won't win going the violent route, they don't have what it takes nor do they have the means

What's your alternative to peaceful protests (which haven't worked and are no longer allowed) and financial blocking which is what you're against here?

As for the cop shooting the protester, we don't need to go back and forth.. the video is there, draw your own conclusions. It doesn't matter what you or I think. Obviously it's not a good idea to walk towards someone pointing a gun at you, but it's REALLY wrong to point a gun at someone and shoot people. If you debate that, it means you support shooting everyone you see who is doing something you don't like, even if they aren't threatening you or anyone else at the time.

What's interesting is that for all the daily misuse of tear gas and abuse of force, trying to get protesters to stop blocking traffic is the MOST justifiable way to use it. But instead of that we had a couple cowboy cops march in with guns. (and if you hadn't noticed, this was pretty much the first time we've seen traffic cops have an altercation with protesters who are already in place. The result: one protester shot, several other run over by a cop on a motorcycle).

It's been every day this week, so let's see if your idea works

White collar protests spreading to other financial districts


It's fascinating to see people dressed in office attire, pulling bricks out of the ground to set up road blocks

More fascists


I didn't even want to link these guys, since it seems so over the top with the bad canto and outfits that it's very possibly fake. But you look at their age and who knows...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You, you may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine…