Hong Kong extradition protests

[twdm]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i'm merely saying it's idiotic to call others hypocrites if they can't have an open, pragmatic mind about something abroad that they can relate to

your sentiment is as ridiculous as asking people to move away from HK at the drop of a hat even if they were born there with all family/social ties or to ask Vancouver folks to move away if housing/living is so expensive instead of complaining or work harder

bitch please, this is a Vancouver-based forum...you want a .hk subforum ask for one or hit the ignore/back button if you dont want to read our Canadian input

Bitch please, go bring your Chinese flags and support Meng Wangzhou.

There's a reason why there are stereotypes against mainland chinese. They take their oaths as Canadian citizens, but when the CCP calls, they all line up to collect their 50 cents instead of protecting Canadian values of open and democratic governance. They feel like abuse of power is something to be proud of.

From your posts, I really question if you're fit to live in Canada. I would challenge you to openly post your opinions on facebook to your Canadian friends without the safety of anonymity. Let others see what you truly are. I know I wouldn't be afraid.

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i'm merely saying it's idiotic to call others hypocrites if they can't have an open, pragmatic mind about something abroad that they can relate to

your sentiment is as ridiculous as asking people to move away from HK at the drop of a hat even if they were born there with all family/social ties or to ask Vancouver folks to move away if housing/living is so expensive instead of complaining or work harder

Your post doesn't make sense at all. How is it even the same? How does he relate to having his freedoms guaranteed by law taken away from him? How does he relate to having a prosperous home being destroyed everyday by a government hell-bent on marginalizing it? Hong Kong is a symbol of western prosperity in spite of the CCP. Why do you think it wants it to fail? Why would it keep trying to pass laws that it knows the people would not accept?

Telling someone to move to his ideal home with"wonderful governance", "amazing freedoms", "amazing economy" etc etc is the same as telling someone to leave their ideal home because of economic troubles? Really, stop while you're ahead. Logic isn't your strong suit.

[twdm]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

don't even respond to him bro. This guy's a few protesters short of an occupy movement.

First, he tells me to go back to China, and then he calls me and my family pussy and says we have a history of taking shit up our asses . Classic internet troll.

You and your family are pussies. Shall I count out the times you took it up the ass?

1. Grandparents got all their shit stolen when the communists invaded; took it up the ass
2. Sent half their family to the gulags and probably raped and murdered after; took it up the ass
3. Grandparents re-educated during cultural revolution and was "never the same"; took it up the ass

After all that, you can still find it in your heart to support this regime in the safety of a democratic country. Your asshole must be pretty loose.

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Unless the country experiences some fundamental reforms in environmental protection, consumer protection, health and education, certain basic freedoms, etc that we have here in the west, it just doesnt appeal to me."

This is exactly what Hong Kongers are trying to defend. We have shown our opposition time and time again and instead of being a pussy like you, we back up our words.

Things we have accomplished:
1. Repeal of 2003 National security law
2. Repeal of Moral and National education classes (which was basically propaganda trying to wash out the Chinese government's crimes against humanity)
3. Paralyzed the government in 2014
4. Delay of the current extradition bill

Things you have accomplished:
1. Spreading your buttcheeks

[Traum]

China never immediately sacks a failed official for failing to handle a major task or crisis. To them, doing so is the same as admitting fault and showing weakness, and they never admit to being wrong or show weakness. If any sacking were to take place, that will happen a few months down the line. In China, the official will officially get sacked. In Hong Kong, the CEO will probably resign himself (Tung Chee Hwa style) -- ie. citing some lamea$$ excuse.

I'd have to disagree with your statement / comment that people engaging in violent acts, including the police, will get charged. I would never for a minute believe her that the government would proactively charge their officiers. They will do whatever they can do drag out the investigation process for as long as possible, hoping that the suing individuals will find it too expensive / exhausting to continue pursuing with pressing charges. This is exactly what happened with that "arm extension" Inspector who was caught on video beating on an innocent public who was already walking away. That time the inspector got charged, but only because public pressure was far too great, and the evidence totally undeniable and the police officer easily identifiable.

The HKPD chief has already been very defiant on arresting and laying charges on his officers. It'll be interesting to see how HK deals with the glut of video evidence showing widespread police brutality in the recent protests.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Carrie Lam just had a press conference. TLDR:

- The bill will not be officially withdrawn or retracted. But she basically said they'll let it sit paused until next July when it expires

- She and the Police Chief no longer consider Wednesday's protest a "RIOT". They say that some people were violent, but it wasn't a riot, and won't be charging people for being there. Only people who were actually doing violent things will be charged. This includes the police, and she reiterated several times where people can report police brutality.

- She is not stepping down. She wants "another chance" to make things right.

So I was wrong that they'd dump her with the bill, but it looks like they at least stopped this specific bill from passing.

They're definitely going to think twice about trying that again.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Traum

China never immediately sacks a failed official for failing to handle a major task or crisis. To them, doing so is the same as admitting fault and showing weakness, and they never admit to being wrong or show weakness. If any sacking were to take place, that will happen a few months down the line. In China, the official will officially get sacked. In Hong Kong, the CEO will probably resign himself (Tung Chee Hwa style) -- ie. citing some lamea$$ excuse.

I'd have to disagree with your statement / comment that people engaging in violent acts, including the police, will get charged. I would never for a minute believe her that the government would proactively charge their officiers. They will do whatever they can do drag out the investigation process for as long as possible, hoping that the suing individuals will find it too expensive / exhausting to continue pursuing with pressing charges. This is exactly what happened with that "arm extension" Inspector who was caught on video beating on an innocent public who was already walking away. That time the inspector got charged, but only because public pressure was far too great, and the evidence totally undeniable and the police officer easily identifiable.

The HKPD chief has already been very defiant on arresting and laying charges on his officers. It'll be interesting to see how HK deals with the glut of video evidence showing widespread police brutality in the recent protests.

I think they're already sort of setting it up, by distancing her from the rest of the Party in respect to this bill. They are saying that she tried to push this bill in too fast, and went about it the wrong way. Of course we know that this isn't true at all, she only does what she's told, but the fact that they are explicitly pinning this on HER shows that they want her to take the brunt of the blame. People are still calling for her to step down, which is exactly what they want - they think it protects their image (lol). They're all hoping to be able to ride out the rest of her term, but if people are loud enough about it, I think she'll have to "volunteer" to step down.

Remember, the Party has absolutely no idea how to govern in a place where people are used to having free thought for generations. They don't realize how utterly ridiculous their propaganda looks. We look at their fake news reports and literally laugh out loud. Then we talk to our mainland relatives and get their perspectives, and practically cry because they are so brainwashed. When they try the propaganda here, it sticks out so much, because you can tell they don't know how to communicate with free thinking people.

And yeah unfortunately post 1997, the police force is not as accountable as it once was. They went from being a typical rotten corrupted police force through the 60's and 70's, to completely cleaned up and among the best forces in the world in the 80's and 90's. What a turnaround! I am so proud of my wife's uncle to be a top police official during that time. And now they are the government's tool of destruction

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by twdm

Bitch please, go bring your Chinese flags and support Meng Wangzhou.


From your posts, I really question if you're fit to live in Canada.

I would challenge you to openly post your opinions on facebook to your Canadian friends without the safety of anonymity. Let others see what you truly are. I know I wouldn't be afraid.

i'm one of the first here to encourage others to drop it like it's hot when Google Nexus used Huawei for hardware, but okay i'll start promoting organ harvesting just because it's more convenient for your argument

am I fit to live in Canada? I don't know i like to criticize the current govt from Moonbeam to teacher-on-call Trudeau, but sounds ironic that you have an opinion from HK about a Canadian living in Canada if you're frowning upon my take of the CCP from Canada...i thought HK isn't part of China, so why do you care so much?

yeah bruh social media is srs biz...i should spam my feed/gallery with my pride for the CCP! see you there Oct 1 and let the flags fly high!

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by twdm

You and your family are pussies. Shall I count out the times you took it up the ass?

1. Grandparents got all their shit stolen when the communists invaded; took it up the ass
2. Sent half their family to the gulags and probably raped and murdered after; took it up the ass
3. Grandparents re-educated during cultural revolution and was "never the same"; took it up the ass

After all that, you can still find it in your heart to support this regime in the safety of a democratic country. Your asshole must be pretty loose.

Indigenous population that have kids with Caucasians, yet celebrates indigenous art/culture;
privileged pussies

African-Americans working in the US government that posts about MLK day;
wow please think about your ancestors from 300 years ago, don't be a pussy

Vancouver native playing for the Boston Bruins that has a house in Vancouver;
bring lube cause you're a pussy

i like where this is going!

[twdm]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

Indigenous population that have kids with Caucasians, yet celebrates indigenous art/culture;
privileged pussies

African-Americans working in the US government that posts about MLK day;
wow please think about your ancestors from 300 years ago, don't be a pussy

Vancouver native playing for the Boston Bruins that has a house in Vancouver;
bring lube cause you're a pussy

i like where this is going!

I think there's no point showing you the flaws in your arguments, but I'll try one last time.

Indigenous populations are generally respected and the government has tried to make amends. They acknowledged and apologized for their past actions.

African americans are generally respected and the government has apologized for their past and made changes to eliminate discrimination.

I have no clue what point you are making with the last comment.

Compared to the chinese government who killed millions of Chinese during the cultural revolution, killed chinese in Tiananmen, tibet, falun gong, xinjiang etc etc. Denies anything ever happened, and the killings are still ongoing. How does it even compare?

The same government tells people to stop dwelling in the past when it comes to killing its own citizens, but tells japan to apologize every year for something that happened even further in the past.

[trd2343]

For those who support the protest, may I ask, what have you done so far to show support? Have you participated in the protest? If you didn't, why didn't you?

I agree that people of Hong Kong have a right to fight for their freedom, but I also think their effort is futile. I don't think anyone here is supporting CCP and praising them as the greatest thing.

But if someone's grandparent are pussies for taking it in the ass when CCP raped them, then these 2 million protesters are pussies as well. They should be protesting right at Beijing's gate, not on the safe street of Hong Kong. I can assure you that Xi's isn't shitting his pants or losing sleep over this protest. China will get what they want. Unless people of Hong Kong are prepared to put their lives on the line, literraly, like soliders in war. Why do people have to pay for such a high price for freedom? It's like asking why are Africans subject to slavery. It's an unfair world.

[whitev70r]

This 'extradition' happens anyways ... with or without a law.

Has everyone forgotten about the Booksellers in Causeway Bay already?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causew...disappearances

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by trd2343

For those who support the protest, may I ask, what have you done so far to show support? Have you participated in the protest? If you didn't, why didn't you?

Well, if my HK Facebook friends are anything to go by they've all changed their profile picture to black. But they've also continued posting fancy food pictures, no doubt paid for by their high powered careers dependent on continued access to the Mainland.

[bcedhk]

Hopefully the protest this friday/saturday will remain peaceful.

But at the same time, based on the half-ass responses and apologies given by the CE, CP, and SS (he sounds and look senile), I wouldn't be surprised if some will resort to anger/violence...

[SkinnyPupp]

I wish they wouldn't push so hard on Lam stepping down. They must realize she is utterly irrelevant.

Also they should realize that not literally retracting the bill is just a way to save face. They have effectively retracted the bill.

They won this round, big time. They're going against the biggest 'face savers' in the entire world (I'm sure most people know what that means) and they still got what they wanted. It's actually kind of amazing!

This isn't to say they won't have to do it again for some other reason. They've done it before, and will have to do it over and over until 2047. But they won this round. The other side just doesn't want to admit it, and they never will.

[SkinnyPupp]

Another bill was "delayed" today. In case you were wondering what this was, the Beijing government wants to make it illegal to make any other noises or show any disrespect when the China national anthem is being played.

This is in reaction to when the anthem is played before soccer games, where people use their democratic rights to show displeasure towards China by booing the anthem.

Yes, they want to be able to throw Hong Kong people in jail for disagreeing with them. They literally were trying to put this into law in Hong Kong.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...government-put

[Tim Budong]

the anthem thing is hilarious to me

[whitev70r]

Can someone explain why China HAS to play nice for 50 years? Please don't say because they made some sort of promise in 1997.

What do you think will happen to those who bought property at UBC Endowment lands after 99 years?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Can someone explain why China HAS to play nice for 50 years? Please don't say because they made some sort of promise in 1997.

What do you think will happen to those who bought property at UBC Endowment lands after 99 years?

It's literally in the constitution

[twitchyzero]

and?

continued killings? you think US are saints now and the violence has stopped? do you think they call a day of mourning and cry on national TV like Justin Trudeau when the drone strikes hit innocents or more Mexican kids die in detention?

might i add:

Japanese education system still skews WWII facts...afaik their govt never apologized for all the massacre/raping

Nationalists in Taiwan enforced one of the longest martial laws in history, was responsible for the 228 massacre and hasn't apologized

does that mean these authorities have contributed only grief and had zero factor in developing their countries into the Asian Tigers? and those who live in Canada can't make comments about so?

things are not perfectly black and white so i cant offer you any empathy when you're this dense: people are not pussies because they were raped/had possessions taken when threatened with a bayonet after watching their family members get killed...many of the elites/intellects were killed first

let's be clear here:

i'm for the people of HK to fight what little freedom they have left against a regime hungry for more influence

but this is not an opportunity to call Mainlanders subhumans for hoarding baby formulas/pissing on the street and it's certainly bullshit to invalidate outsiders' perspective as being hypocritical for events that happened before they were even fucking born and because they don't live in HK (on a fucking Vancouver forum of all places)

if it's more the latter then i suppose i'll continue being skeptical at HK's future from my 'safe, prievileged, first-world, <insert more hurt adjective>' country

Originally Posted by twdm

Indigenous populations are generally respected and the government has tried to make amends. They acknowledged and apologized for their past actions.

African americans are generally respected and the government has apologized for their past and made changes to eliminate discrimination.

I have no clue what point you are making with the last comment.

Compared to the chinese government who killed millions of Chinese during the cultural revolution, killed chinese in Tiananmen, tibet, falun gong, xinjiang etc etc. Denies anything ever happened, and the killings are still ongoing. How does it even compare?

The same government tells people to stop dwelling in the past when it comes to killing its own citizens, but tells japan to apologize every year for something that happened even further in the past.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Well, if my HK Facebook friends are anything to go by they've all changed their profile picture to black. But they've also continued posting fancy food pictures, no doubt paid for by their high powered careers dependent on continued access to the Mainland.

timing couldn't be more perfect; just had one with the HK filter on profile pic publicly shaming her own vancouver-born husband for being privileged

the cringe was strong

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

and?

continued killings? you think US are saints now and the violence has stopped? do you think they call a day of mourning and cry on national TV like Justin Trudeau when the drone strikes hit innocents or more Mexican kids die in detention?

might i add:

Japanese education system still skews WWII facts...afaik their govt never apologized for all the massacre/raping

Nationalists in Taiwan enforced one of the longest martial laws in history, was responsible for the 228 massacre and hasn't apologized

does that mean these authorities have contributed only grief and had zero factor in developing their countries into the Asian Tigers? and those who live in Canada can't make comments about so?

things are not perfectly black and white so i cant offer you any empathy when you're this dense: people are not pussies because they were raped/had possessions taken when threatened with a bayonet after watching their family members get killed...many of the elites/intellects were killed first

let's be clear here:

i'm for the people of HK to fight what little freedom they have left against a regime hungry for more influence

but this is not an opportunity to call Mainlanders subhumans for hoarding baby formulas/pissing on the street and it's certainly bullshit to invalidate outsiders' perspective as being hypocritical for events that happened before they were even fucking born and because they don't live in HK (on a fucking Vancouver forum of all places)

if it's more the latter then i suppose i'll continue being skeptical at HK's future from my 'safe, prievileged, first-world, <insert more hurt adjective>' country

Is anyone here calling mainlanders "subhuman"? If so they should be gone

I can only speak for myself, but I am disappointed when I see anyone just go against human rights like nothing matters since it doesn't affect them personally. I don't care if you were born and raised in Canada, or your family fled a tyrannical regime. If you have that opinion, I am going to disagree with you. And unfortunately I see that opinion coming from, well like I said, a place of unchecked privilege from people who SHOULD know better, but choose not to. Some may just be pragmatic about it, and that's fine. But others are actually AGAINST any movement in the direction opposite of tyranny. I just don't get it.

I will say this, political threads are likely to get a bit hostile. Let's keep from calling people "pussies" and "subhuman" ok? I don't want to close threads that get a bit shitty when they have a lot of other good info to offer (something I've put some effort into contributing)

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

timing couldn't be more perfect; just had one with the HK filter on profile pic publicly shaming her own vancouver-born husband for being privileged

the cringe was strong

LOL what? I've yet to see any of my FB friends posting selfies from the protest march. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since all of them have aged out of that group.

But yeah, changing your profile pic to Black, for gay pride or for whatever Western country's flag (that's not the US) hit by a terrorist attack is the laziest form of slacktivism which I despise.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Can someone explain why China HAS to play nice for 50 years? Please don't say because they made some sort of promise in 1997.

What do you think will happen to those who bought property at UBC Endowment lands after 99 years?

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

It's literally in the constitution

When Deng negotiated the 1-country-2-system with Thatcher, Deng's intent and expectations were that in 50 yrs' time, China would have caught up to Hong Kong (and the international community)'s level of prosperity and civility, and then the 2 societies can readily merge into one without major issues. Of course, little did he know that his lack of political reform in China means an assimilation like that is impossible.

Any leasehold land in Canada, or any place that operates under the rule of law, would never have any issues with the leases expiring. The lease expires, and you either re-negotiate to come to a deal of some sort beforehand, or you just pack up and go when the expiration comes. The problem with China is, it is a place that operates on the rule by law princple. That law and justice is not an end goal in itself, but merely a means to achieve whatever desires the current ruler / ruling adminstration desires. So it doesn't matter what kind of contract or binding agreement they have passed or signed, because China will easily ignore their obligations if it is convenient for them to do so. And this is exactly what happened with their WTO obligations.

[320icar]

This thread is kind of insane. Can someone link me or coles notes this ‘bill’ that was shelved?

[Gallardo]

Originally Posted by 320icar

This thread is kind of insane. Can someone link me or coles notes this ‘bill’ that was shelved?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the long and the short of the Bill is:

For certain crimes committed in Hong Kong, the person in question will be sent to Mainland China- to be dealt with and sentenced.

[320icar]

Oh. That’s fucked up.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Gallardo

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the long and the short of the Bill is:

For certain crimes committed in Hong Kong, the person in question will be sent to Mainland China- to be dealt with and sentenced.

Not true. A proper but simplified version of the bill is:

Hong Kong will extradite anyone to Mainland China for trial when the person has broken Mainland Chinese laws that are deemed serious enough for extradition.

The difference is, the crime does not have to be committed in Hong Kong. As long as he is physically in Hong Kong, the bill allows for him to get arrested in Hong Kong, stand trial to see whether the extradition request is justified (but HK courts cannot question the validity of the evidence presented by China for the Chinese charges), and sent to China if the presented evidence looks strong enough to warrant a trial. It is essentially like Meng Wenzhou's case now -- Meng have obviously not broken any Canadian laws, but she is arrested on charges against the US.

And that's what is so fxxked up about it -- Hong Kong cannot question the validity of the evidence presented by China. It can only determine whether the evidence and the purported crime is strong enough to warrant extradition. The fear is, if China wants somebody taken back to China for trial (or whatever other purposes it wants), they will fabricate the necesary evidence for a crime that will require extradition -- eg. rape, tax evasion, embezzlement, etc. Once the target is back in China -- good luck to him.