Hong Kong extradition protests

[twitchyzero]

why would they do that?

i was told mainlanders are brainwashed by the pundits in this thread

[SkinnyPupp]

Here's a more recent one (1 day ago)

Twitter

As for why they're doing this, do you really need to ask? Like I said before, these people aren't as "brainwashed" or "stupid" as the pro-fascists think. Chinese people generally want the same things we all want. It's idiotic (and IMO kind of racist) to assume people want to live under the thumb of tyranny because of their ethnicity. I will always argue that. They are currently being beat down, oppressed, and mostly kept in check. But that won't last forever. Especially once the money dries up.

[SkinnyPupp]

Protester gets charged with attacking a cop, but in court was able to prove that the cop was the one who attacked him. Charges were dropped. Unsure if they will now charge the cop with assault.

So cops are attacking people and arresting them for it. Thank god there is so much footage out there.

Chan claimed Pak had threatened to “make him pay” while he was detained at Mong Kok Police Station for questioning. He said he did not dare to join the protests after his arrest. “But of course, for now, I will stand up again and continue the struggle,” the chef added.

Powerful HKer

[whitev70r]

Nobody particularly troubled by this ??? Trump tweeted this after signing law protecting HK protesters. HK Protesters, you sure you want to use this guy as a poster child for your movement?

Twitter

[SkinnyPupp]

Trump is great bait m8. I rate him 8 out of 8.

[320icar]

^^ can you Coles notes thenlast 3 video posts for those whities in the chat? Cuz I have no idea what’s going on

[SkinnyPupp]

Cop decides to take pot shots at protesters with his pepper ball gun, as another cop tries to stop him:

Twitter

Too late, he shot this girl in the eye

Twitter

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by 320icar

^^ can you Coles notes thenlast 3 video posts for those whities in the chat? Cuz I have no idea what’s going on

Coles Notes:

-People in China have no rights
-So the government does whatever the fuck they want
-But that doesn't mean the people still don't get pissed off
-In this case, the govt built a crematorium in the middle of their town
-People took the streets
-Cops cracked skulls
-People continue to take the streets

This is a common occurrence throughout China, but footage rarely gets out. I think the HK movement is opening more eyes, and more of this info is getting out. Also the Chinese govt has been getting more and more leaky lately.

[yray]

they just want to keep starting shit

inb4 Guangdong separatism

[twdm]

In b4 China is so great now, why can't they deal with the park-turned-into-crematoria?

[threezero]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Coles Notes:

-People in China have no rights
-So the government does whatever the fuck they want
-But that doesn't mean the people still don't get pissed off
-In this case, the govt built a crematorium in the middle of their town
-People took the streets
-Cops cracked skulls
-People continue to take the streets

This is a common occurrence throughout China, but footage rarely gets out. I think the HK movement is opening more eyes, and more of this info is getting out. Also the Chinese govt has been getting more and more leaky lately.

Here's the thing with how government works in China. It works much like the old dynasties day. Each region is theoritically ran independantly by the local government that reports to the central governement.

Unlike the states and even Canada. There isn't really a clear divide in responsibilites and finance. The central government grants each region specific amount of money in relation to their GDP, population and the overall directive of the central government for that city (like how shenzhen was injected with alot of money)

China is a big country with a lot of people. There is a saying in China "The mountain is far but the king is even farther away". The central governement lets the local government do their thing as long as everybody is relatively satisfy and everything is going in the right direction. Because of the disconnect and the fact there are just so so so many region and people to govern. Local government can get in over their head and corrupt more than they can handle.

Local unrest like this happens when local government has clearly take more than they can swallow and anger the population. Once actual unrest happens, the suppression of news coverage is to prevent further unrest while they reshuffle the local governement. Somebody will be responsible for this, they might be can/jailed or even executed. CCP have no mercy when it comes to paving the way for stablity.

These guys are protesting against a very specific thing and usually when it gets this bad they will get their wish. Local official will be found responsible. Central government remove the dude and everybody is calm again. What HK is protesting for is first world probelm compare to these guy. Do you really think China gets this big by constantly killing everybody that protest? Like said before, Chinese history is filled with kings being overthrown by peasants. It a balancing act you can never lean on either side too much or it will all topple over.

They are just as hard on their own governmental officials as they are on political dissent.

The less than impartial judicial system works both way, they use it to dispose of political dissent and they also use it to quickly dispose of their own guys that step out of line and can't handle a position of power.

Continous civil unrest is not the norm in China. Despite effort in censorship, the word does get around. The central government knows better than to let things stew until it becomse unsolvable. 90% of the time unrest is due to mismanagemnet by a local government and it will be resolve relatively quickly.

Notice how none of this applies to HK?

[bigzz786786]

^best and most accurate description of China's government involvement between people, regions, and local policies

.......in b4 skinnypup calls you pro ccp

[highfive]

That post definitely deserved a $1.00! double 50 cents! lol

Can't agree more with threezero.

[BIC_BAWS]

https://www.richmond-news.com/news/c...ool-1.24025645

China-Hong Kong tensions spill into Richmond high school

“Do you know how many Chinese people have sacrificed their lives for establishing the People’s Republic of China?” it continues.

The letter states that the proposed extradition law, which has been the subject of months-long protests in Hong Kong, was put forward because judges in Hong Kong are followers of Britain and let criminals get away without being punished.

A photo of the letter was posted on Facebook and Twitter by writer Henry Lam, resulting in an online backlash.

The letter states that without the communist party, there wouldn’t be a “new China,” and that Hong Kong would still be “trampled” under the British.

The letter calls Hongkongers “despicable and cowardly,” adding, “We treat you so well, you are still ungrateful.”

“The purpose of this letter isn’t to frighten you or intimidate you, we just want to give you a history lesson and let you know all the consequences,” it states.

This incident follows an online uproar at Steveston-London secondary earlier this fall after a teacher showed trailers from a Chinese government film made to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China as part of a Mandarin language class.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by threezero

Here's the thing with how government works in China. It works much like the old dynasties day. Each region is theoritically ran independantly by the local government that reports to the central governement.

Unlike the states and even Canada. There isn't really a clear divide in responsibilites and finance. The central government grants each region specific amount of money in relation to their GDP, population and the overall directive of the central government for that city (like how shenzhen was injected with alot of money)

China is a big country with a lot of people. There is a saying in China "The mountain is far but the king is even farther away". The central governement lets the local government do their thing as long as everybody is relatively satisfy and everything is going in the right direction. Because of the disconnect and the fact there are just so so so many region and people to govern. Local government can get in over their head and corrupt more than they can handle.

Local unrest like this happens when local government has clearly take more than they can swallow and anger the population. Once actual unrest happens, the suppression of news coverage is to prevent further unrest while they reshuffle the local governement. Somebody will be responsible for this, they might be can/jailed or even executed. CCP have no mercy when it comes to paving the way for stablity.

These guys are protesting against a very specific thing and usually when it gets this bad they will get their wish. Local official will be found responsible. Central government remove the dude and everybody is calm again. What HK is protesting for is first world probelm compare to these guy. Do you really think China gets this big by constantly killing everybody that protest? Like said before, Chinese history is filled with kings being overthrown by peasants. It a balancing act you can never lean on either side too much or it will all topple over.

They are just as hard on their own governmental officials as they are on political dissent.

The less than impartial judicial system works both way, they use it to dispose of political dissent and they also use it to quickly dispose of their own guys that step out of line and can't handle a position of power.

Continous civil unrest is not the norm in China. Despite effort in censorship, the word does get around. The central government knows better than to let things stew until it becomse unsolvable. 90% of the time unrest is due to mismanagemnet by a local government and it will be resolve relatively quickly.

Notice how none of this applies to HK?

Yup you explained it quite well. It's good to see people are still coming to this thread, despite efforts by some to ruin it. Don't listen to that fool who said I would see this as being pro China. If anyone reads my posts and doesn't think I am completely reasonable, they are being intentionally obtuse, or just a jerk.

While this protest did not directly "apply to HK", people were nonetheless chanting slogans based on HK slogans, and calling for solidarity with HK people, based on both having Guangdongese backgrounds.

BTW the crematorium has been cancelled, and 200 protesters have been released from prison. I'm sure some heads will be rolling after this.

I will restate my main point, since some people seem to have missed it: These protests are becoming more public than ever. These social unrest movements may not directly "apply to HK", they are certainly occurring, and are being influenced by the movement here. China is crushing as much info as they can, but they can't get it all.

[twdm]

I think it is important to note how quick the government responded after people took to the streets. I would like to invite all the CCP apologists to analyze all the unpopular decisions the HK government bulldozed through even against the people's wishes.

They bulldozed the national anthem bill. They bulldozed the co-location bill. The extradition bill took 4-5 months and hundreds of beatings to even just withdraw.

Do you think it would've come to this if Carrie Lam withdrew the bill within a week of the first set of marches?

[threezero]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I will restate my main point, since some people seem to have missed it: These protests are becoming more public than ever. These social unrest movements may not directly "apply to HK", they are certainly occurring, and are being influenced by the movement here. China is crushing as much info as they can, but they can't get it all.

Unfortunately that not what is going on. Protesting in China has been going for as long as I can remember. I was born in Guangzhou and I clearly remember as a ween little kid hearing about protest where people are protesting X thing that the local government or even certain corporation does that ended up causing outrage and protest erupts. Its always directed an a specific action most likely as a direct result of corruption on a local basis. It was all by word of mouth back than, what has change is the uncontrollable raise of internet and how it is virtually impossible to suppress news like they can back in the old days, even with internet censorship.

The reason why I brought up how government operate is that these protest are almost always directed at a local government, It is a cry to a higher power (central government) to clean up the mess. The local government in Guangdong has change hands more time than than years I've been alive. The protests have always been suppress in the news, but the punishment of the government official are always broadcast as loud as possible. The people in general still have trust in the central government.

This protest is not like the other protest. What Hong Kong is protesting for is fundamentally completely different from all the pocket of protest you are seeing in China. I think I am beating dead horse in saying that China is a big country with a lot region/people and consequently alot of different problems. One problem they do not have is the unity of the people in recognizing the CCP as a sovereign authority. For reason stated again and again, if there are any genuine supporter of the Hong Kong movement in China. They are definitely the minority and they are not actively protesting on the street as a direct result of what is going on in Hong Kong.

Guangdong is also no longer a predominately cantonese speaking province anymore. For the past two generation, Guangdong has been populated by more and more "outsider" as they call them that either doesn't speak cantonese or speak a heavily accented version of cantonese. Guangdonger's deepest connection to Hong Kong happened couple generations ago where many people from the province fled to Hong Kong to seek a better financial future due to the proximity of the area to Hong Kong (cue stories of uncles and aunties that died trying to swim to Hong Kong). The tie is getting weaker as weaker and Guangdong picks up economically and as it is continuously populated by people from other province.

For generations Guangdong is the only province with access to filtered Hong Kong television. Maybe this is why they get more snippet of information and empathy compare to other provinces. There was whole movement in guangzhou about a decade ago during the first influx of out of provincer that start planting their roots in Guangdong, the guangdonger were upset that their cantonese culture is slowly being erase. Shit like that is definitely relatable, but because Hong Kong's protest has essentially turned into an anti-China/ independence movement, there is little to no support from anywhere in the mainland Guangdong or otherwise.

[threezero]

Originally Posted by twdm

I think it is important to note how quick the government responded after people took to the streets. I would like to invite all the CCP apologists to analyze all the unpopular decisions the HK government bulldozed through even against the people's wishes.

They bulldozed the national anthem bill. They bulldozed the co-location bill. The extradition bill took 4-5 months and hundreds of beatings to even just withdraw.

Do you think it would've come to this if Carrie Lam withdrew the bill within a week of the first set of marches?

I think whether Carrie Lam has any actual power is still up for debate. Her administration definitely done goof. If Hong Kong is really just another Chinese city. Carrie Lam would of been canned long long time ago and the central government would have intervene in there own ways and situation would not have escalated to what it is today.

One country two system is something completely new to China, heck even to the whole world. China clearly imagine things going a different way and things has not work out like they thought it would.

Giving Hong Kong the true democracy they demand is basically forfeiting CCP's sovereignty in Hong Kong.

Everybody is both right and wrong in this wrong mess. On a local level, Hong Kong's demand is straight forward and it is not wrong to demand what was promise. However on a much higher level, it is not as simple as black and white.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by threezero

Unfortunately that not what is going on. Protesting in China has been going for as long as I can remember. I was born in Guangzhou and I clearly remember as a ween little kid hearing about protest where people are protesting X thing that the local government or even certain corporation does that ended up causing outrage and protest erupts. Its always directed an a specific action most likely as a direct result of corruption on a local basis. It was all by word of mouth back than, what has change is the uncontrollable raise of internet and how it is virtually impossible to suppress news like they can back in the old days, even with internet censorship.

The reason why I brought up how government operate is that these protest are almost always directed at a local government, It is a cry to a higher power (central government) to clean up the mess. The local government in Guangdong has change hands more time than than years I've been alive. The protests have always been suppress in the news, but the punishment of the government official are always broadcast as loud as possible. The people in general still have trust in the central government.

This protest is not like the other protest. What Hong Kong is protesting for is fundamentally completely different from all the pocket of protest you are seeing in China. I think I am beating dead horse in saying that China is a big country with a lot region/people and consequently alot of different problems. One problem they do not have is the unity of the people in recognizing the CCP as a sovereign authority. For reason stated again and again, if there are any genuine supporter of the Hong Kong movement in China. They are definitely the minority and they are not actively protesting on the street as a direct result of what is going on in Hong Kong.

Guangdong is also no longer a predominately cantonese speaking province anymore. For the past two generation, Guangdong has been populated by more and more "outsider" as they call them that either doesn't speak cantonese or speak a heavily accented version of cantonese. Guangdonger's deepest connection to Hong Kong happened couple generations ago where many people from the province fled to Hong Kong to seek a better financial future due to the proximity of the area to Hong Kong (cue stories of uncles and aunties that died trying to swim to Hong Kong). The tie is getting weaker as weaker and Guangdong picks up economically and as it is continuously populated by people from other province.

For generations Guangdong is the only province with access to filtered Hong Kong television. Maybe this is why they get more snippet of information and empathy compare to other provinces. There was whole movement in guangzhou about a decade ago during the first influx of out of provincer that start planting their roots in Guangdong, the guangdonger were upset that their cantonese culture is slowly being erase. Shit like that is definitely relatable, but because Hong Kong's protest has essentially turned into an anti-China/ independence movement, there is little to no support from anywhere in the mainland Guangdong or otherwise.

Yup exactly. Nothing new is going on.Things do evolve over time though, and what is new is the amount of info coming out. People care about this shit now, as China is under a growing amount of scrutiny.

As far as Guangdong no longer being Cantonese... I don't know about now, but about 10 years ago I went on a road trip of the region, staying at towns and villages throughout. We were pretty blown away by how prevalent the Cantonese culture still was, and how far we could get just speaking canto. Not talking about HK tourist hotspots like SZ and GZ either. You might be surprised by how strong the Cantonese culture is, but to me the fact that it stood up (at least 10 years ago) to generations of mass migration and cultural influence (sometimes forced) is quite telling. I think it's a pretty proud culture, and will never really disappear, unless forcibly. Hell, HK itself being so different from China is a major reason why the CCP is stumped as to how to get them to integrate. They think they can just force it, but look at what's happening...

Anyway, I am just going by the reporting - people were using HK slogans in last week's protests, and obviously some people are going to be influenced by them. Maybe it's fake news though who knows

Also I have to correct you that this movement isn't a separatist movement, except for a few fringe people. It's a self-determination movement - something every human wants. They were promised universal suffrage in their constitution, and have been fighting to not have it ignored for over 20 years now. The extradition kicked off this current movement, but this basic thing is what keeps it going (along with continuing disgusting actions by the police)

Also, to not have to reply separately, One Country, Two Systems was something that could have worked, and obviously it wasn't a huge deal until pretty recently when someone took over the CCP. We'll see what people think of it with the results of Taiwan's election, as there are still people who want to join China or at least be closer to them. The CCP's failure with HK will convince a lot of people that even if they were being pragmatic about it, they now know that it isn't feasible with that guy running the party.

[threezero]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

As far as Guangdong no longer being Cantonese... I don't know about now, but about 10 years ago I went on a road trip of the region, staying at towns and villages throughout. We were pretty blown away by how prevalent the Cantonese culture still was, and how far we could get just speaking canto. Not talking about HK tourist hotspots like SZ and GZ either. You might be surprised by how strong the Cantonese culture is, but to me the fact that it stood up (at least 10 years ago) to generations of mass migration and cultural influence (sometimes forced) is quite telling. I think it's a pretty proud culture, and will never really disappear, unless forcibly. Hell, HK itself being so different from China is a major reason why the CCP is stumped as to how to get them to integrate. They think they can just force it, but look at what's happening...

Anyway, I am just going by the reporting - people were using HK slogans in last week's protests, and obviously some people are going to be influenced by them. Maybe it's fake news though who knows

You might be right about the town and village being still predominately cantonese. I havn't been to the village side since the early 90s. It make sense the influx of out of provincer is only to the major city for jobs. I'm a city boy

Propganda is in full force in both mainland and in Hong Kong. I wouldn't believe everything you are reading especially now and if it comes from Epoch News and its assocation it is even more bullshit. Hong Kong protest is an isolated movement in China (if one still consider Hong Kong part of China). The five demand and what is going on in Hong Kong is not something that resonates with mainlander.

[danned]

[SkinnyPupp]

Six months later...

Streamable

Twitter

[6793026]

I can't wait to get to HK and participate. Protest like this, i got zero problems with. Looking forwards to joining to see what's going on.

I think the independent investigation will happen as there are a stop of violence.. we'll see if that's true when I get there.

[SkinnyPupp]

Some idiots lit fires at the courts again, and protesters put them out. Someone needs to talk to these fuckers that a fair court system is what they're fighting FOR. It's like the only institution that HK has going for it, that China can't influence. They can ignore it, but they can't influence it.

[Alpine]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/co...o_not_take_it/

Oops? lol.