737 Boeing crashes in Iran

[underscore]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

These people are DEAD man! Do you not think that the victims and their families would prefer to be alive and deal with those hardships than the alternative?! What a truly stupid statement, get some perspective.

Of course they do, but they don't get the convenient hindsight you have now. You talk about perspective and risk mitigation as if the potential for the plane to be shot down was the only risk to mitigate. My point (that apparently I didn't make clear enough) was that the alternatives to being on that plane have their own high risks given the location. This isn't getting stuck in a busy airport during the holidays, or choosing not to get on a plane from Seattle that you think looks a bit sketch, this is trying to GTFO of a country that President Spray Tan is wanting to commit war crimes against. When I say getting a later flight it's not just a matter of what flight to get on later that day, there may not be any other flights period if someone decides to shut everything down. When I say finding somewhere to stay it's not grab a cab to the nearest hotel or sleep in the airport, it's hoping you're not going to be somewhere hit by retaliatory action when some people are itching to turn the entire country you're in to glass.

They took a risk, some probably more knowingly than others, and unfortunately they were killed. But if the plane hadn't been shot down and someone opting not to get on it gets stuck in Iran people would be saying they were stupid not to leave when they had the chance.

[vitaminG]

Been listening to coverage on radio. CBC basically has some guy blaming Trump for this. That pls Trudeau making a point of saying Iran did it unintentionally. Meanwhile Iran doing all it can to deny and cover up. Never been a Trudeau fan but this is disgusting.

No such thing as unintentionally or accidentally shooting down a commercial plane. Iran negligently killed dozens of Canadians.

Same country that has imprisoned and murdered Canadian journalists. We don't have an embassy there for a reason. Can't believe anyone would try to excuse Iran

[StylinRed]

Every leader is saying it was likely by accident, even Trump.... Bcuz if it was a missile, it most certainly was unintentional

[westopher]

But how will that narrative allow Canadians that “never liked him” to place blame upon Trudeau?

[vitaminG]

You don't shoot down a commercial plane by accident, it's either stupidity or intent. If Trudeau had any balls he'd say something

[westopher]

This is a big boy situation. Spouting off has consequences, and I’m quite happy we have a leader that will take that into consideration before any more innocent lives are lost as a result.
A couple days from now is when we can actually have a level headed opinion on how things have been or will be handled.

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by underscore

Of course they do, but they don't get the convenient hindsight you have now. You talk about perspective and risk mitigation as if the potential for the plane to be shot down was the only risk to mitigate. My point (that apparently I didn't make clear enough) was that the alternatives to being on that plane have their own high risks given the location. This isn't getting stuck in a busy airport during the holidays, or choosing not to get on a plane from Seattle that you think looks a bit sketch, this is trying to GTFO of a country that President Spray Tan is wanting to commit war crimes against. When I say getting a later flight it's not just a matter of what flight to get on later that day, there may not be any other flights period if someone decides to shut everything down. When I say finding somewhere to stay it's not grab a cab to the nearest hotel or sleep in the airport, it's hoping you're not going to be somewhere hit by retaliatory action when some people are itching to turn the entire country you're in to glass.

They took a risk, some probably more knowingly than others, and unfortunately they were killed. But if the plane hadn't been shot down and someone opting not to get on it gets stuck in Iran people would be saying they were stupid not to leave when they had the chance.

I understand your point and we could go back and forth on what-ifs until we're blue in the face. The basic fact remains that this aircraft never should have taken off and I point blame squarely on the airline and controllers for putting it in danger in the first place. Its flight path was directly at an AA battery on the outskirts of Tehran immediately after they attacked American positions in Iraq. Putting a civilian aircraft there is grossly negligent.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by vitaminG

You don't shoot down a commercial plane by accident, it's either stupidity or intent. If Trudeau had any balls he'd say something

This seems like an apt moment to make use of the phrase "okay boomer"

[68style]

Man those pilots are friggin heroes, managing to even take control to turn a plane that eviscerated around as much as they did... what a shit way to go

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

I understand your point and we could go back and forth on what-ifs until we're blue in the face. The basic fact remains that this aircraft never should have taken off and I point blame squarely on the airline and controllers for putting it in danger in the first place. Its flight path was directly at an AA battery on the outskirts of Tehran immediately after they attacked American positions in Iraq. Putting a civilian aircraft there is grossly negligent.

This is mostly the point I poorly attempted to make. Did they choose to fly because the money was worth the risk, was it some noble effort knowing these people had little to know chance of getting out any other way, or did they believe in a false sense of safety in there being no chance the Iranians would attack a civilian plane, or some other possible motive?

[Mikoyan]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

This tweet certainly raises eyebrows: https://twitter.com/HassanRouhani/st....1578385178334

The AA batteries would have been on the highest alert anticipating American aircraft. There are a lot of factors here, and they would have been tracking anything in the sky within range. It could have been something as simple as PS752 squawking the wrong code, or identifying, and the launch may have actually been automatic. Those are details we will probably never know. It doesn't change the outcome for the victims but there's a big difference for the families between an accident and a mistake. It's a very sad and angering situation.

Flight left an hour late too. They might. Not have expected a commercial flight at that time either. No question whomever was running the battery screwed up.

[mikemhg]

Jesus Christ, I can't believe some people would think this was done on purpose.

Why the fuck would Iran target a Ukrainian plane?

They literally launched missiles at a Iraqi/US base, giving them ample warning, and not killing a single person. You think they would then shoot down an airliner for shits and giggles?

This is why we get into these stupid wars, people don't use common sense.

I guarantee what likely occurred as someone else mentioned, missile defense systems were activated to anticipate any American retaliation, unfortunately that plane was targeted as a result.

It's very unfortunate, but I agree somewhat with JD13, I don't blame the passengers, but damn that plane should not have been in the air at that particular time, terrible circumstances.

What is Trudeau supposed to say? LOL. We're still ironing out the details of what even occurred here, I feel like we're in the lead up to Iraq all over again here ffs, what is with some people's amnesia?

[twitchyzero]

'don't let this distract you from Trump's impeachment' or 'Trudeau please grow balls' comments are ridiculous at such critical time

sure Trump withdrawing from the nuclear plan didn't help and reignited this chain reaction but if you really want to blame our ally then it should be on the Bush dynasty for installing so many bases out that way

what we should be doing is blasting Iran for trying to cover this up, the blood is on their hands and they should answer to the number of Canadian innocents lost

[Hondaracer]

i feel like just saying it was an accident or unintentional seems like such a cop out, or at the very least, does not do this situation justice.

it wasnt simply an accident like somone forgot to set your parking brake and you rolled into the vehicle in front of you. You had an AA battery pointed towards the civilian airport and shot at a comercial plane taking a normal departure route..

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by 68style

Man those pilots are friggin heroes, managing to even take control to turn a plane that eviscerated around as much as they did... what a shit way to go

Not sure if it's accurate, or even true, but a witness said it looked like the plane also turned so that it'd crash into a field rather than a densely packed residential area. Just picturing that gets quite emotional

[twitchyzero]

outcome of the '88 killings: US paid out the victims

outcome of the 2014 killings: nothing??

outcome of this: Canada/Iran probably gonna do jack shit as well

think about all the Persians in Vancouver and beyond...must be a gut-wrenching feeling for them to watch all this unfold

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

i feel like just saying it was an accident or unintentional seems like such a cop out, or at the very least, does not do this situation justice.

it wasnt simply an accident like somone forgot to set your parking brake and you rolled into the vehicle in front of you. You had an AA battery pointed towards the civilian airport and shot at a comercial plane taking a normal departure route..

fog of war

the cases of friendly fires are chilling...even when their command is to hold off while targets are being confirmed..they've already made up their mind to pull the trigger

[PeanutButter]

Originally Posted by vitaminG

You don't shoot down a commercial plane by accident, it's either stupidity or intent. If Trudeau had any balls he'd say something

Is an accident and stupidity mutually exclusive?

[hud 91gt]

How are you all confirming Iran is the one who made the mistake? Could a “mistake” have been just as easily made by the US?


Everyone stop jumping to conclusions. Pretty upsetting for everyone involved. I’m sure everyone on board just wanted to get the hell out of there. The crew was just trying to get home. Scary stuff.

[donjalapeno]

Definitely looks like it was shot down.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/v...mid=tw-nytimes

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

How are you all confirming Iran is the one who made the mistake? Could a “mistake” have been just as easily made by the US?

Radar data, IR signatures, and intercepted radio transmissions. Fired from an SA-15 aka TOR M1, IRGC unit, four man crew, one officer. Americans were staring right at Tehran when it happened.

[boostfever]

I just got back from Tehran in mid-November
and I was just talking to my travel agent last week, she suggested the Kiev stop is quite popular now as European flights are very limited to Tehran. No airliners other than Lufthansa are flying to Tehran since a couple years ago.
I'll have to go back pretty soon too..

[twitchyzero]

you could try US Navy which will soon start service to Tehran

[Mikoyan]

I hear the Air Force has door to door drop off service.
https://giphy.com/gifs/stanley-kubri...-uH27sheFg9One

[Hondaracer]

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

You had an AA battery pointed towards the civilian airport and shot at a comercial plane taking a normal departure route..

Iran Air 655 anyone?