coronavirus discussion

[SkinnyPupp]

There are so many unknowns, there is no "answer" to jump on, but people keep doing it.

Chloroquine is not the "answer" - anecdotally it can help, but still not really proven. Also it does nothing to help people who seem to be affected by it worse than others.

Tons of testing isn't the answer, you have to act upon the test results. Maybe combine it with quarantine facilities and lockdown. Good luck doing that in a country where people value freedom. Proof: Korea

Tracking isn't the answer. "Freedom" loving notwithstanding, you can trace peoples whereabouts, but since it's a "stealth" virus, someone could be infecting hundreds and not know it. Proof: Singapore

Antibody tests aren't the answer. We still don't know for sure if someone can get it twice, and even then, just because you have antibodies doesn't mean you are fully recovered from it. And again you have to DO something with the people who have the antibodies.

Vaccines aren't the answer. The ones needed are still expiremental, and we don't even know the long term complications that may arise. I doubt many people even know how they work, and how RNA vaccines are different from other types of vaccines like attenuated, inactivated, etc.

Coles notes on the frontrunner being tested in Washington (Moderna, backed by Bill Gates) which you can read about here.

They insert RNA of the viral spike protein, the hope being that the body responds to this as a threat, and makes antibodies

No way to test the actual effectiveness of this though, other than getting infected by Covid19

So the goal of this is to give your immune system a boost to fight the virus - not to prevent it from infecting you in the first place.

In other words, even if this vaccine "works" and everyone gets it, people will continue to get Covid-19, and people who are susceptible to it will still be susceptible to it while their body fights it. We've seen it make people very sick, very fast, and all the extra antibodies their body can muster up won't help. Again that assumes that the body responds in this way. It's possible that the RNA will be seen as benign, and ignored completely. That's what they're testing to see now.

That's our best vaccine right now. It doesn't take into account the possibility of people getting sick more than once, which seems to be happening (but not proven - again we go to my main point - everything is brand new to us).

So far the only thing proven, other than literally not leaving your house, is wearing masks. This is the closest thing we have to "the answer" today. The sooner everyone accepts this, the better off we'll be, while an actual "final answer" is found (if that's even possible)

[spoon.ek9]

^ to add to that statement, I and many other coworkers actually feel safer at the hospital than in public because of the low % of compliance when it comes to mask usage, hand hygiene, etc.

let that sink in for a second

[MarkyMark]

Wearing masks only works as far as the people that use them properly. It won't stop people from pulling them down when having a conversation, it won't stop people from going to their friends house and not wearing one, and it won't stop people from just saying "fuck it" and only pull it up when they see a cop because it's the middle of summer and 35C outside.

They haven't even developed a vaccine and were writing it off now? Theres to many unknowns to say masks are the only way to get through this. Sure they'll help the spread right now but no one wants "mask season" as a yearly thing, sorry.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Wearing masks only works as far as the people that use them properly. It won't stop people from pulling them down when having a conversation, it won't stop people from going to their friends house and not wearing one, and it won't stop people from just saying "fuck it" and only pull it up when they see a cop because it's the middle of summer and 35C outside.

They haven't even developed a vaccine and were writing it off now? Theres to many unknowns to say masks are the only way to get through this. Sure they'll help the spread right now but no one wants "mask season" as a yearly thing, sorry.

This is partially true, in that wearing one properly is definitely better than NOT wearing one properly, but even improper wearing is better than not wearing at all.

Also I'm not writing it off. I am just trying to make people be realistic about expectations. Vaccines may or may not help - we don't know. People are acting like "once we get a vaccine tested, we'll be fine. We just need to hold on for 12-18 months!". This is insanely wishful thinking.

So as of today, vaccines aren't the answer. They literally don't even exist. But even once they do, we don't know how effective one would be.

There's only one thing we know absolutely works to prevent huge outbreaks: wearing masks. So as of today, they ARE the answer. Look to masks, not something that doesn't exist, or something like chloroquinine that may or may not work (and only matter once you get the damn virus anyway)

It's difficult why this is such a hard thing to accept, but maybe I'm the crazy one I dunno

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

This is partially true, in that wearing one properly is definitely NOT wearing one properly, but even improper wearing is better than not wearing at all.

How many lives would be saved worldwide if we all wore masks during flu season every year and took these same stay at home precautions? Thousands if not hundreds of thousands probably. We still don't knowing people will die from it. You get your vaccine, the people vulnerable take precautions and it's survival of the fittest after that. Once this initial Covid craze is over whos to say this won't be the same in the years to come?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

How many lives would be saved worldwide if we all wore masks during flu season every year and took these same stay at home precautions? Thousands if not hundreds of thousands probably. We still don't knowing people will die from it. You get your vaccine, the people vulnerable take precautions and it's survival of the fittest after that. Once this initial Covid craze is over whos to say this won't be the same in the years to come?

Who's to say the "Covid craze" will ever be over? Maybe we'll have this along with the flu, every year.

To answer your question: Yes, a lot of flu related deaths would be prevented by wearing masks. And maybe if they become part of daily life, the death rate of flu will go down as well. Of course the death rate is not the only thing to worry about.

If you still don't get the difference between C19 and the flu, and why C19 is worse, do some reading. Start here.



I swear the first thing we need to do to move on is get people to stop talking about the damn flu. They may have some similar symptoms, and flu kills a lot of people, but it's not the same!

If that graph wasn't enough, how about this one comparing 1 month Covid19 to ALL DEATHS in New York over an 8 month period



If people STILL don't get it, and don't understand (or don't accept) the concept of huge spikes of illness being bad, then there's no reason to continue discussing at all *shrug*

[MG1]

Well, I'll tell you one thing. I've never felt better since wearing masks and being a germaphobe. I usually have at least two or three bouts of the cold or flu by this time. I get free flu vaccines, but haven't taken any this year. Nothing, so far, knock on wood.

As for washing hands, I've always washed them after going to the washroom, which is very often being a diabetic. Not hold hands under running water like a lot of people. I actually scrub and use a nail brush whenever I can.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Who's to say the "Covid craze" will ever be over? Maybe we'll have this along with the flu, every year.

To answer your question: Yes, a lot of flu related deaths would be prevented by wearing masks. And maybe if they become part of daily life, the death rate of flu will go down as well. Of course the death rate is not the only thing to worry about.

If you still don't get the difference between C19 and the flu, and why C19 is worse, do some reading. Start here.



I swear the first thing we need to do to move on is get people to stop talking about the damn flu. They may have some similar symptoms, and flu kills a lot of people, but it's not the same!

If that graph wasn't enough, how about this one comparing 1 month Covid19 to ALL DEATHS in New York over an 8 month period



If people STILL don't get it, and don't understand (or don't accept) the concept of huge spikes of illness being bad, then there's no reason to continue discussing at all *shrug*

Dude I don't even disagree with you on a lot of this. What I'm saying is as a society people don't want to live their lives wearing a mask. If it came down to two options, one is mask season, and the other is a vaccine and try to get it so the deaths are down to an acceptable level I'm betting most people will choose option two.

I for one like breathing fresh air and wearing a mask blows. I'm doing everything I can at the moment to stop the spread and will continue to do so, I'm just saying in the years to come I don't agree with your opinion of masks as the future.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Dude I don't even disagree with you on a lot of this. What I'm saying is as a society people don't want to live their lives wearing a mask. If it came down to two options, one is mask season, and the other is a vaccine and try to get it so the deaths are down to an acceptable level I'm betting most people will choose option two.

I for one like breathing fresh air and wearing a mask blows. I'm doing everything I can at the moment to stop the spread and will continue to do so, I'm just saying in the years to come I don't agree with your opinion of masks as the future.

I know I'm just putting it out there for everyone to see

Currently vaccine isn't an option. There are two options: Mask season, or have huge spikes of deaths. I think I'd go with the former.

Wearing a mask does blow. I am not looking forward to having to wear one in the summer time here. And I know a lot of people are against them, to the point of being irrational. But I'll say this - just look back through this thread and we had people saying that they were going to "live life like normal" throughout all this, "Won't stop going to Canucks games" and "still going on that cruise in May" and "I am still going to go to Disneyland in April"

Soon "I won't wear a mask" will be included in these outdated notions. Some people aren't responsible enough to make decisions for themselves (which is normally fine, but in this case thousands of others suffer because of it). They had to have Canucks games, Disneyland, and cruises taken away from them (just like I said would happen when these people argued with me). When it comes to masks, they may not have a say in the matter. If you want to leave your house, better get used to wearing a mask.

Maybe one day masks will be a thing of the past - skies will be clear, an effective Covid19 vaccine will be found, and the economy will recover. Until then, we have to do what is necessary to prevent as many people from dying as possible. That means no Canucks games, no cruises, no Disneyland, and wear a damn mask

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I know I'm just putting it out there for everyone to see

Currently vaccine isn't an option. There are two options: Mask season, or have huge spikes of deaths. I think I'd go with the former.

Wearing a mask does blow. I am not looking forward to having to wear one in the summer time here. And I know a lot of people are against them, to the point of being irrational. But I'll say this - just look back through this thread and we had people saying that they were going to "live life like normal" throughout all this, "Won't stop going to Canucks games" and "still going on that cruise in May" and "I am still going to go to Disneyland in April"

Soon "I won't wear a mask" will be included in these outdated notions. People won't have a choice.

Maybe one day masks will be a thing of the past - skies will be clear, an effective Covid19 vaccine will be found, and the economy will recover. Until then, we have to do what is necessary to prevent as many people from dying as possible. That means no Canucks games, no cruises, no Disneyland, and wear a damn mask

Sure, in the immediate future people should expect to not go on trips, not go to sporting events, pretty much stay home and save your money.

I've literally wrote off the next year of my life as just working, going home, going for walks and using this as an opportunity to save a shit load of cash.

Nothing lasts forever man, to think Covid is the end of how we like to live our lives is a pessimistic view going forward. I for one think we can get through it, figure it out and look back on it as a shitty time that we eventually overcame. Anything less is just depressing.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

^ to add to that statement, I and many other coworkers actually feel safer at the hospital than in public because of the low % of compliance when it comes to mask usage, hand hygiene, etc.

let that sink in for a second

Makes total sense. Kinda like how race car drivers feel safer driving on the track than on public streets!

I was at St Paul’s Hospital today to pick someone up and it felt like a very clean, sterile, controlled environment.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Gumby

I was at St Paul’s Hospital today to pick someone up and it felt like a very clean, sterile, controlled environment.

Wish Burnaby Hospital was like that............... maybe it's gotten better in the last three years. Just saiyan. If something happens to me, I'll end up there. Don't think I'll have a choice.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Nothing lasts forever man, to think Covid is the end of how we like to live our lives is a pessimistic view going forward. I for one think we can get through it, figure it out and look back on it as a shitty time that we eventually overcame. Anything less is just depressing.

Some things do last "forever" though (in relation to humanity anyway)

I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just realistic. We will adapt to this, and life will be different in many ways from now on. As to how we adapt, it depends on a lot of things. The only thing I can say FOR SURE that applies to us NOW is to wear masks. That's it. Don't count on anything else. Hope for it, but don't count on it.

I'm sorry if this is depressing, but I think it would be even more depressing if we put all our hopes on something that didn't pan out, and didn't take important measures during that time which put us in an even worse situation.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Some things do last "forever" though (in relation to humanity anyway)

I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just realistic. We will adapt to this, and life will be different in many ways from now on. As to how we adapt, it depends on a lot of things. The only thing I can say FOR SURE that applies to us NOW is to wear masks. That's it. Don't count on anything else. Hope for it, but don't count on it.

I'm sorry if this is depressing, but I think it would be even more depressing if we put all our hopes on something that didn't pan out, and didn't take important measures during that time which put us in an even worse situation.

Just by watching the news you can tell how people aren't willing to change their lifestyle. While people are doing what they can they are asking "how many more weeks is this going to last?". Yeah they think it's going to end in 'weeks'.

If the government decided to say "Hey guys sorry but this is the new normal, sorry but you can't do the stuff you like to do anymore going forward" it would result in a shit show that's probably even worse than the virus itself.

How would mask season even work? Shut down restaurants a few months every year? Only sell tickets to sporting events with 4 seats vacant inbetween each person while they wear a mask? Stop selling beer at events so no one takes their mask off?

If I believe in anything I believe in billionaires finding a way to stop this shit because it's costing them money.

[GS8]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...eople-n1184616

I just don't even...

[Amuse]

Originally Posted by rb

Living in the tri-cities (port coq, port moody, coq), you will get some of the dirtiest looks while wearing a mask

Times are changing. This week, I see a lot more mask wearers of all nationalities in the tri-cities and in their hardware stores. Home Depot staff, many are wearing masks.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by GS8

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...eople-n1184616

I just don't even...

Twitter

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

I'd certainly hope you are required to wear a mask on a fucking airplane lol, hey let's all sit in a tiny tube of recycled air and hope no one's infected! Even with a mask I wouldn't want to be on an airplane right now.

I can see masks being required to go into a store if they want to really take it to the next level. I'll stand by my opinion that I don't think they'll make everyone who steps outside their house required to wear one.

Not really true.

Yes, a good chunk of air on an airplane is recycled. But there is also an outflow valve a few small children could climb through which is cracked open controlling the pressurization. Why you say? Because there is constantly “fresh” air being pumped in. The outflow valve (door) is used to control the pressurization of the airplane. So up at altitude, you have multiple PSI of air flowing out of said valve. That is a ton of air. The only time the air is really completely recirculated would be when climbing, as the system more or less seals to gain pressurization. Once it reaches that desired level, the air keeps getting pumped in, and yes and it also keeps getting pumped out.

Any recirculated air goes through HEPA filters in the system. If your curious about air flow in an airplane. Ever let one rip in your seat by mistake? It may linger for a second, but that nasty air sure gets cleared out quickly.

It’s a pretty big misconception overall. A lot of people think the door closes on the ground, seals and the same air is used on your 12 hour flight across the Atlantic and your still alive on the other side. No true. Airplanes aren’t that sealed, it take a lot of air to keep them pressurized. Fresh compressed air!


But on the note of antibodies. I do believe it will be the number of antibodies present which will dictate a persons ability to be “immune.” Im betting this is the way we will go.

In Health and Safety, PPE is the last line of defence. It’s a great option, and certainly our only option at this point but that will change.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

But on the note of antibodies. I do believe it will be the number of antibodies present which will dictate a persons ability to be “immune.” Im betting this is the way we will go.

In Health and Safety, PPE is the last line of defence. It’s a great option, and certainly our only option at this point but that will change.

That will only happen if the WHO changes their opinion on antibody testing.
If anyone's wondering why we are following WHO directive to the letter, it's probably because our health officer is a member of their advisory board.
https://www.who.int/about/who_reform...heresa-tam/en/

[UnknownJinX]

IMO, if masks can help everything open back up to a certain extent, I am for it.

The shutdown isn't sustainable and "it saves lives" isn't a good reason when people can't work and put food on the table(or bankrupt the country). The short term solution will be a compromise where we choose the whack-a-mole approach: open things up to a certain extent with some protetive measures(like masks) and hammer down the small outbreaks here and there.

People will die, it's unfortunate, but as long as the virus won't be out of control on a macro scale, it is what it is.

[twitchyzero]

BC govt announced the emergency benefit over 3 weeks ago
still no details...

[Hondaracer]

That’s what all the big financial analysts have been saying for weeks now.

Who cares if your sick when you’re homeless and your family falls apart.

We already see it in the states with the protests and whatnot. People can hope all day long that those who are out protesting are the ones who will get sick and die, but odds are, they won’t be the ones who do.

Franky, In the states at least, it feels like people would be more willing to accept the hospitals he jammed with sick people and have people die than change their habits and wear masks etc.

Sounds like things are working out for Sweden lol:

“ Sweden’s epidemiologist-in-chief, defends this as a failure not of the approach, but of component systems: It turns out Swedish nursing homes are fantastically vulnerable to COVID-19 outbreaks, just like ours. Somali immigrants are hugely over-represented among the infected. Tegnell suggested this was because they’re not doing the things public health officials are asking them to do, because they’re poorly integrated into Swedish society. (Swedes don’t need to be ordered around, because they are so trustful of officialdom, and of each other, that a kind request is all that’s needed — or so the story goes.)”

[Euro7r]

With all this warm/hot water washing my hands these past couple weeks, skin been peeling on some of my fingers now. Anyone of you guys experience this? I put lotion which kinda helps the dry-ness/peeling.

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

Not really true.

Yes, a good chunk of air on an airplane is recycled. But there is also an outflow valve a few small children could climb through which is cracked open controlling the pressurization. Why you say? Because there is constantly “fresh” air being pumped in. The outflow valve (door) is used to control the pressurization of the airplane. So up at altitude, you have multiple PSI of air flowing out of said valve. That is a ton of air. The only time the air is really completely recirculated would be when climbing, as the system more or less seals to gain pressurization. Once it reaches that desired level, the air keeps getting pumped in, and yes and it also keeps getting pumped out.

Any recirculated air goes through HEPA filters in the system. If your curious about air flow in an airplane. Ever let one rip in your seat by mistake? It may linger for a second, but that nasty air sure gets cleared out quickly.

It’s a pretty big misconception overall. A lot of people think the door closes on the ground, seals and the same air is used on your 12 hour flight across the Atlantic and your still alive on the other side. No true. Airplanes aren’t that sealed, it take a lot of air to keep them pressurized. Fresh compressed air!


But on the note of antibodies. I do believe it will be the number of antibodies present which will dictate a persons ability to be “immune.” Im betting this is the way we will go.

In Health and Safety, PPE is the last line of defence. It’s a great option, and certainly our only option at this point but that will change.

Without fresh air, everyone would die of oxygen deprivation in less than an hour.

HEPA filters range from 95% to >99.999% efficiency as well with the most common being 99.97%, way better than an N95 mask.

Most HEPA setups will also have some level of pre-filtration as well which often involves activated carbon and/or electrostatic filtration to remove larger particulates and odours.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Euro7r

With all this warm/hot water washing my hands these past couple weeks, skin been peeling on some of my fingers now. Anyone of you guys experience this? I put lotion which kinda helps the dry-ness/peeling.

It's hand sanitizer that causes drying up of skin.

I just leave it now............. skin is getting tougher, like it used to be when I was working.

If you want girly hands, use lotion. j/k.

Try O'Keefe's working hands. It works better than other lotions and creams. Plus, it sounds more manly than saying you put on some Neutrogena or Olay...............