coronavirus discussion

[GLOW]

i think he said he had a water leak he had to fix and complaining other people are working on their garden, rebutted that said person built group homes

that's all i caught from the rant

[6793026]

Originally Posted by quasi

Excuse my ignorance if this has been posted already but I seen a news report about testing of homeless in Boston and it kind of blew my mind.

397 people tested and 146 tested positive that's not the surprising part, ZERO had any symptoms every one who tested positive was Asymptomatic.

This is the main reason why it's so important to take shit seriously, asymptomatic people are EVERYWHEREEEEEEEE.

I smack this fact to EVERYONE when they say "i'm not sick" "F UUUUUUU, you can still be COVID contagious"

Yes, if you have a fever (and or worse yet, show a lot of signs of COVI19) and you're still MOFO irresponsible, tnt and all these shopping centers should have every right to ban you from coming in.

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

I think he’s upset because there is a line full of “unessentials?” Im betting someone got angry as he probably skipped the line as he figures he has the right to do so for his work. Then he went ape shit.

Nowadays, I seem to have a bit more sympathy with people on the edge, i just laugh it off. At times of COVID, getting mad ain't helping.

[twdm]

Here is a little bit of collateral damage due to the global lockdown. But hey who cares about the little black people starving in Africa. Better dead from starvation than from COVID-19.

"135 million people facing crisis levels of hunger or worse, coupled with an additional 130 million on the edge of starvation prompted by Coronavirus"

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1062272

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twdm

Here is a little bit of collateral damage due to the global lockdown. But hey who cares about the little black people starving in Africa. Better dead from starvation than from COVID-19.

"135 million people facing crisis levels of hunger or worse, coupled with an additional 130 million on the edge of starvation prompted by Coronavirus"

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1062272

Yes, this is a pandemic. It's really bad. Do you have a point?

[twitchyzero]

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-doctors-fe...emic-1.4906450

stay home...but we also need to feed the sick biz machine

[twdm]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Yes, this is a pandemic. It's really bad. Do you have a point?

These people aren't starving because of getting infected by COVID-19, they're starving because of the global shutdown. Use your brain.

Notice how you don't see massive increases in starvation during flu pandemics?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twdm

These people aren't starving because of getting infected by COVID-19, they're starving because of the global shutdown. Use your brain.

Notice how you don't see massive increases in starvation during flu pandemics?

OK let's take this seriously for a minute. Let you keep digging deeper.

1) Why do you think there's a global shutdown?

2) When was the last time the flu infected and killed so many people so rapidly?

[twdm]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

OK let's take this seriously for a minute. Let you keep digging deeper.

1) Why do you think there's a global shutdown?

2) When was the last time the flu infected and killed so many people so rapidly?

1. There are decisions that were made hastily based on "models" and "doomsday projections". Sweden has largely debunked the myths.

2. Since you aren't a healthcare professional you wouldn't have realized the 2017-18 flu devastated healthcare systems. And because we're both living in Hong Kong, I would like to let you know that all public hospitals were over capacity and even private hospitals had waitlists for admission.

If you want data here it is (US CDC data for US alone):
The overall burden of influenza for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 45 million influenza illnesses, 21 million influenza-associated medical visits, 810,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 61,000 influenza-associated deaths

And this is WITH VACCINATION and WITH TREATMENT over a largely 5 month period (from Nov-Mar.)

Also of note, it killed people from all age groups.

Then again, it's easy to make all these claims when you don't actually know shit.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twdm

1. There are decisions that were made hastily based on "models" and "doomsday projections". Sweden has largely debunked the myths.

2. Since you aren't a healthcare professional you wouldn't have realized the 2017-18 flu devastated healthcare systems. And because we're both living in Hong Kong, I would like to let you know that all public hospitals were over capacity and even private hospitals had waitlists for admission.

If you want data here it is (US CDC data for US alone):
The overall burden of influenza for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 45 million influenza illnesses, 21 million influenza-associated medical visits, 810,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 61,000 influenza-associated deaths

And this is WITH VACCINATION and WITH TREATMENT over a largely 5 month period (from Nov-Mar.)

Also of note, it killed people from all age groups.

1) Sweden hasn't "debunked" anything compared to all their neighbouring countries. (note this is NOT a random selection of countries, but rather all countries surrounding Sweden, regardless of policy, with population size taken into account)

If anything is "debunked" it's the idea that we would be able to survive for very long without strict social distancing controls.



2) Quit trying to throw that fallacy of you knowing anything since you claim to be a healthcare professional. Whether you are or not is clearly not relevant.

2b) We went through this before, comparing the 17/18 flu to the coronavirus. Comparing an entire flu season AND pneumonia to 2 months of Corona in a hard hit area looks like this:



And yes, even with vaccination and treatment, flu kills a lot of people. And it still pales in comparison to coronavirus.

That is why the global economy took a back seat to "flatten the curve".

If ANYONE were to listen to your advice, the world would look like The Road by now.

Originally Posted by twdm

Then again, it's easy to make all these claims when you don't actually know shit.

Keep pretending like you know what you're talking about, since you work in a hospital.

If anything, you have even less of an excuse to be so wrong. You had somewhat of an excuse to be ignorant before the outbreak went worldwide. That's why I entertained the idea of arguing with you early on, it is only fair. Some even supported your nonsense early on, but it didn't take long for you to be proven so wrong.

But for you to continue saying this shit now, continuing to dig yourself deeper into this hole... You are just insulting everyone's intelligence now. This is even worse than the "liberate" protesters in America. At least they have a point in that they want to get a haircut.

[twdm]

Are you really that stupid or can you not do math. Can we stop using deaths per million over a short data period and look at final deaths? Because thats what really matters. The 2017/18 flu has killed more people than the COVID19 in the US. That is a fact. Dont give me bullshit about "pales in comparison".

[Presto]

COVID19 is not over yet, buddy. The US has over 45,000 deaths today. This is double from last week. At this rate, it will surpass the 2017/2018 flu deaths before another week passes.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twdm

Are you really that stupid or can you not do math. Can we stop using deaths per million over a short data period and look at final deaths? Because thats what really matters. The 2017/18 flu has killed more people than the COVID19 in the US. That is a fact. Dont give me bullshit about "pales in comparison".

Take deaths per million, multiply it by the population in millions, and you have total deaths.

And this "short data period" covers the entire 17/18 flu season.

Even if there were literally zero more deaths from C19 and it stopped at 20K in New York, just look at the spike it caused. How is it not obvious that having this many sick people all at once is WAY WAY WAY worse than having more people spread out over a flu season.

But sure, keep going..

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Presto

COVID19 is not over yet, buddy. The US has over 45,000 deaths today. This is double from last week. At this rate, it will surpass the 2017/2018 flu deaths before another week passes.

And that is WITH all these extreme measures being taken. Just look at how fast it's happening.

Imagine if some clown decided that they didn't need to do all this stuff, thinking that "the economy" would be saved since it's "just old people" dying, and let everyone roam free to spread the virus... It would be literally catastrophic to the state of America.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Presto

COVID19 is not over yet, buddy. The US has over 45,000 deaths today. This is double from last week. At this rate, it will surpass the 2017/2018 flu deaths before another week passes.

and that's on top of the number of people who die from the flu evey year.

[twdm]

Originally Posted by Presto

COVID19 is not over yet, buddy. The US has over 45,000 deaths today. This is double from last week. At this rate, it will surpass the 2017/2018 flu deaths before another week passes.

Buddy no one is contesting COVID 19 isn't more deadly than the regular flu. The point is that it isn't 10-100 times more deadly like the doomsday prophets are saying.

Sure watch your country go into shambles. Just take a poll of how many people here need to apply for money from the gov? The swedes are eating their popcorn and watching the idiots run around with their heads cut off. Oh yea, they have a grand total of ~1800 dead? Shouldnt all their old people be dead according to the skinnypupp? Cars on fire, everyone dying left and right?

Hospitals filled to the max?
Oh wait only 80% occupancy.

But but denmark is so much better. Well unemployment rates are increasing 4x faster than sweden. Personal spending down 70% vs 30% for Sweden.

Oh yea. They're also not locked down at home. Just basic precautions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eur...ng-of-covid-19

Time will tell how stupid all of this was. I predict Sweden will still be on the map, their elderly will still be alive and they'll be writing books about how they avoided the bulk of the man-made disaster.

Skinny will also probably get fired or be forced to take no pay leave, but dont worry its for the elderly.

[hud 91gt]

If you guys could stop insulting each other we may be able to have an interesting conversation.


For anyone in the know, what is the reasoning for the common flu to die out over the year?

TWDN states total deaths is what you should look at. As previously stated, that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense until this whole situation is over due to varying degrees of the rate of spread.

Skinny states: but look at the rate of infection!

Well yes, but the R value (or whatever they call the contagion value) is twice as high, of course the value will be higher). You make a valid point on hospital capacity. But total number at the end will tell the story whether or not we were set to help these people in a hospital or not.

Carry on.

[SkinnyPupp]

"Time will tell" a lot, but only because these extreme measures were taken. The only thing saving Sweden from total catastrophe is the shutdowns of surrounding countries keeping things somewhat in check for them.

If everyone would just sit by idly and let the "old people" fill hospitals and then morgues, we wouldn't have the luxury of arguing about it online. Looking at "total deaths" at the end of it all, the count is going to be insanely high, obviously. And that is WITH the measures taken. Without any measures taken, you wouldn't even fathom being concerned about counting numbers and arguing with people online. You would have much more important matters to be concerned with.

This sounds like hyperbole, but if we've learned anything in the past few months, it should be that things rarely seem like hyperbole anymore. Ask anyone who lived in Wuhan around January.

[Hondaracer]

So according to those charts Sweden would be looking at approx 1500 deaths VS Denmark’s 380 or so

If that turns out to be accurate and Sweden remains with their model of non-isolation, business open as usual etc. I’d say that’s a small price to pay relative to keeping your country running.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So according to those charts Sweden would be looking at approx 1500 deaths VS Denmark’s 380 or so

If that turns out to be accurate and Sweden remains with their model of non-isolation, business open as usual etc. I’d say that’s a small price to pay relative to keeping your country running.

Not really. Denmark's curve is flattening- they peaked at around 20 deaths per day, while Sweden is still seeing hundreds and continues to grow



Hardly a "small price to pay" so some businesses can make more money.

[twitchyzero]

i don't agree with 'make more money' i feel like most businesses even if they were open in some capacity right now is to stay afloat

Originally Posted by twdm

a short data period

says the guy quoting fatality rate in late January/early Feburary before the novel virus was even named

[Bouncing Bettys]

Although life expectancy went up in the US during the depression for various reasons, the death toll from this pandemic abd economic collapse could take years to determine:

Twitter

[Hakkaboy]

I remember reading a quote somewhere:

We may never know if we acted too early and overreacted, but we will definitely know if we acted too late

In this case overreaction is good, because the alternative is worse, way worse

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

Save yourself the trouble of debating:

Translation for this picture: I don't want to have a real debate or use my brain.

And they wonder why critical thinking is dying.

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i don't agree with 'make more money' i feel like most businesses even if they were open in some capacity right now is to stay afloat

IMO the shutdown actually benefited big businesses since a lot of them are essential(grocery store) or provide online services, while local restaurants start to close their doors forever. Also, even these big corps suffer for now, they either have enough reserve to tank through the storm or get bailed out.

If you are against the "bad big corps", the lockdown actually isn't something you want to see. Just saying.

Again, who do you weigh more, the people who lost their jobs or small businesses, or the sick people? Interesting discussion.

[Hondaracer]

That’s what I said before, this is the start of the dystopian future where you only shop at big box stores, you only eat at massive chain restaurants, etc.

There undoubtedly will be huge opportunity for small business coming out of this picking up the ashes of the businesses they will be replacing but people are wayyyy too dumb to realize the importance of supporting small business to keep enough of them afloat imo. Hell, even the supply chains for small restaurants could go under. Not every restaurant uses, or wants to use a sysco or similar supplier. Small restys that use local ingredients and produce and proteins may be in real tough coming out of this.

[welfare]

I think it really depends on the government's approach.
If they offer tax relief incentives to small businesses and less regulation (like I'm hoping they will), as opposed to a tax and spend approach, rebound will likely come sooner than later, IMO.
It also depends on what happens when restrictions are lifted.
No way small businesses can sustain opening and closing and opening again due to cases flaring up.