coronavirus discussion

[Hondaracer]

Many small business already seem to just be closing permanent and cutting their losses.

I think even with a proper rebound consumer confidence will be so lacking that it will be hard to continue to operate regardless

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Translation for this picture: I don't want to have a real debate or use my brain.

And they wonder why critical thinking is dying.

It's humour. It was made by The Babylon Bee, a satirical fake news site much like The Onion. Not far from the current dialogue though.

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So according to those charts Sweden would be looking at approx 1500 deaths VS Denmark’s 380 or so

If that turns out to be accurate and Sweden remains with their model of non-isolation, business open as usual etc. I’d say that’s a small price to pay relative to keeping your country running.

Interestingly, Sweden's 1500 deaths and the 50,000 deaths in the US are both 0.02% of their population. It would be interesting to see if that percentage number diverges in the future. One is not isolating and the other isolated late.

Canada and Denmark are both at 0.01%. Not sure if it's because we isolated early or if we're just behind the curve.

Not sure if this isolation thing is going to get rid of the virus. SARS-CoV-2 is going to be around forever. If we reopen, no matter how slowly or carefully, it's going to start spreading again. The only thing we've ever successfully eradicated is Smallpox.

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by welfare

I think it really depends on the government's approach.
If they offer tax relief incentives to small businesses and less regulation (like I'm hoping they will), as opposed to a tax and spend approach, rebound will likely come sooner than later, IMO.
It also depends on what happens when restrictions are lifted.
No way small businesses can sustain opening and closing and opening again due to cases flaring up.

Remember that time when Morneau thought small business owners were super rich 1%ers and tried to increase taxes and tried to remove tax shifting mechanisms? Guess he never knew small businesses ran on such slim margins that they couldn't last a month without income.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

That’s what I said before, this is the start of the dystopian future where you only shop at big box stores, you only eat at massive chain restaurants, etc.

There undoubtedly will be huge opportunity for small business coming out of this picking up the ashes of the businesses they will be replacing but people are wayyyy too dumb to realize the importance of supporting small business to keep enough of them afloat imo. Hell, even the supply chains for small restaurants could go under. Not every restaurant uses, or wants to use a sysco or similar supplier. Small restys that use local ingredients and produce and proteins may be in real tough coming out of this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again to reiterate.
Be conscious where you spend your money. Do you care about where it goes? If not, you should, because it’s the most control you have over seeing the places you care about continuing to exist. I moved to Vancouver because I wanted to be a chef at a small, independent and respectable restaurant that cared about its products, and not just a big box restaurant with premade shit. I’ve taken a large pay cut over what I could have been making if I chose to do that, and it was WELL worth it. If Vancouver loses those options it destroys a huge part of the culture here and what makes this city special.
That goes far beyond restaurants, but of course that’s the part that’s most important to me.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by westopher

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again to reiterate.
Be conscious where you spend your money. Do you care about where it goes? If not, you should, because it’s the most control you have over seeing the places you care about continuing to exist. I moved to Vancouver because I wanted to be a chef at a small, independent and respectable restaurant that cared about its products, and not just a big box restaurant with premade shit. I’ve taken a large pay cut over what I could have been making if I chose to do that, and it was WELL worth it. If Vancouver loses those options it destroys a huge part of the culture here and what makes this city special.
That goes far beyond restaurants, but of course that’s the part that’s most important to me.

I’ve been actively trying to avoid spending money on more frivolous shit (ie. a new BBQ although I could def use one) in order to spend disposable income at local restaurants and shops.

We’ve also held off on ordering things online and have been waiting for them to come back in stock locally at places like gourmet wharehouse etc.

Unfortunately I really don’t think the general public realizes how much these small business and restaurants rely on consistent support. Especially restys that had virtually no take out prior to this

Hopefully your place comes out of this on the other end westopher and we can come and support it.

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Many small business already seem to just be closing permanent and cutting their losses.

I think even with a proper rebound consumer confidence will be so lacking that it will be hard to continue to operate regardless

It'll be extremely interesting to see how many small businesses make it through this. From a quick Google of stats, 99.8% of businesses in Canada are small and medium-sized businesses.

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

Remember that time when Morneau thought small business owners were super rich 1%ers and tried to increase taxes and tried to remove tax shifting mechanisms? Guess he never knew small businesses ran on such slim margins that they couldn't last a month without income.

From all accounts, Bill Morneau is a real piece of shit so him being completely out of touch isn't surprising

[Tapioca]

Even though the numbers applying for assistance are high, the majority of the workforce remains employed, particularly middle and higher income earners. They are saving money in terms of commuting, childcare, and grooming costs and once a sense of normalcy returns, it will be these people who drive the economic recovery. In my enclave of the Lower Mainland, people are still supporting restaurants, breweries, and local businesses where they can. Real estate is still moving, particularly sub-1 million properties. There is pent up demand to eat in restaurants and buy homes. People are still online shopping - lots of good deals to be had in clothing and cosmetics right now if you know where to look. I'm still seeing UPS and FedEx trucks dropping stuff off in my neighbourhood on a daily basis.

People on RS don't seem to be too perturbed about the economy. People are still concerned about getting their car parts from the States and getting the lowest rates on their mortgage renewals. Spending a couple hundred dollars on N95 masks is no problem.

Sure, some businesses will probably never come back, but I'm sensing that most will come back in some shape or form.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by Ch28

It'll be extremely interesting to see how many small businesses make it through this. From a quick Google of stats, 99.8% of businesses in Canada are small and medium-sized businesses.

My wife grew up near salmon arm in buttfuck know where and spent a lot of time traveling in the US for shows when she was younger. To this day she still brings up how much the lower mainland is ‘incorporated’. If you go shopping, it’s to a big box store. If you go eat it’s at a chain restaurant. When you leave the GVRD there are so many more independently owned restaurants and grocery stores and bakeries etc. Everything is a small business in a small town.

I don’t think people here realize how much big box stores change things. The South Park Walmart episode is right on the money.

[pastarocket]

This pandemic brings out the best and also the worst behaviour from people.

-despicable act of violence against an elderly Asian man by a racist dude. -sounds like it happened at a 7 Eleven in my neighborhood.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04...ated-incident/

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – Police in Vancouver are seeing an uptick in anti-Asian and racially-motivated attacks, and an elderly man being assaulted recently is another prime example.
The VPD says a 92-year-old man with severe dementia was inside a convenience store along Nanaimo Street and East 1st Avenue on March 13 when someone yelled racist remarks at him, including comments about COVID-19.

Once outside, police say the suspect shoved the senior, causing him to fall down and hit his head. The suspect was gone by the time police arrived, but officers are hoping someone might recognize him.
“Everything about this assault and the behaviour of the suspect is despicable,” Constable Tania Visintin says in a release. “As a police department, we do not tolerate incidents motivated by bias, prejudice, or hate. It’s even more disturbing considering the victim’s age.”

In recent weeks, the VPD says it is seeing more cases like this — 11 hate crimes were reported in March, with almost half of them reported as anti-Asian.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by 320icar

I don’t think people here realize how much big box stores change things. The South Park Walmart episode is right on the money.

Good Lord, South park would have so much material right now. The episodes would be incredible.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Even though the numbers applying for assistance are high, the majority of the workforce remains employed, particularly middle and higher income earners. They are saving money in terms of commuting, childcare, and grooming costs and once a sense of normalcy returns, it will be these people who drive the economic recovery. In my enclave of the Lower Mainland, people are still supporting restaurants, breweries, and local businesses where they can. Real estate is still moving, particularly sub-1 million properties. There is pent up demand to eat in restaurants and buy homes. People are still online shopping - lots of good deals to be had in clothing and cosmetics right now if you know where to look. I'm still seeing UPS and FedEx trucks dropping stuff off in my neighbourhood on a daily basis.

People on RS don't seem to be too perturbed about the economy. People are still concerned about getting their car parts from the States and getting the lowest rates on their mortgage renewals. Spending a couple hundred dollars on N95 masks is no problem.

Sure, some businesses will probably never come back, but I'm sensing that most will come back in some shape or form.

your enclave/neighbourhood/this forum, is it representative of Vancouver area?

[trd2343]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Translation for this picture: I don't want to have a real debate or use my brain.

And they wonder why critical thinking is dying.



IMO the shutdown actually benefited big businesses since a lot of them are essential(grocery store) or provide online services, while local restaurants start to close their doors forever. Also, even these big corps suffer for now, they either have enough reserve to tank through the storm or get bailed out.

If you are against the "bad big corps", the lockdown actually isn't something you want to see. Just saying.

Again, who do you weigh more, the people who lost their jobs or small businesses, or the sick people? Interesting discussion.

Unfortunately, some don’t see it as a discussion at all (for both sides).

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by 320icar

My wife grew up near salmon arm in buttfuck know where and spent a lot of time traveling in the US for shows when she was younger. To this day she still brings up how much the lower mainland is ‘incorporated’. If you go shopping, it’s to a big box store. If you go eat it’s at a chain restaurant. When you leave the GVRD there are so many more independently owned restaurants and grocery stores and bakeries etc. Everything is a small business in a small town.

I don’t think people here realize how much big box stores change things. The South Park Walmart episode is right on the money.

What the hell are you talking about? I live in Vancouver, and almost exclusively patronize mom-and-pop business and stores. The grocery stores nearby (Safeway, Whole Foods, Save Ons) are probably the only "big box" stores I've set foot in the past 6 months prior to COVID. Even now I'm only doing takeout from my local hole-in-the-wall faves. Perhaps it depends entirely on the neighborhood one lives in but I can pretty much get everything from local shops - Hardware, Produce, meat, etc. I don't really buy electronics or clothing very often so that negates me going a lot of bigger stores. Whereas when I visit I find it's mostly suburbanites and smaller town folks that do all their shopping at places like Walmart, Costco, Home Depot. Eat at Boston Pizza, Cactus Club, Earls. If the town is small enough, then yeah, a lot of businesses are still local.

[Hondaracer]

Yea I agree completely CB.

Have family that live in the kootneys and they all leave their smaller towns to go to places like Costco, superstore etc in neighbouring bigger towns. Most of the main grocers in these towns are also operated by larger “chain” corporations as opposed to the supply of local farmers markets or independent grocers we have locally

Growing up I remember they thought it was such a treat when A&W opened up in Cranbrook lol..

[mikemhg]

I'm finding it strangely ironic how some posters in this thread suddenly have a bleeding heart for the poor and hungry in the 3rd world. I have literally never seen these posters speak about world hunger, or even care about the subject. But when it comes to COVID and "reopening the economy" now world hunger is important? Very interesting

I've never been a major proponent of corporations, but this romance with "small business" is a fallacy. Yes there will be consolidation, but is that ultimately bad?

Small businesses are much more likely to cut jobs and layoff their workers. You are much more likely to earn a higher wage for a large company, then a smaller one. Benefit plans, paid leave, insurance and retirement benefits tend to be far greater at larger companies, then small businesses. Large companies create far more lasting jobs, with gainful pay, along with the innovation and development that only large companies have the capital to create.

Ever worked for a small business? It's not necessarily sunshine and daises.

Once again, I'm not here trying to cape for large businesses here, but I have never understood this mentality of hating corporations, and having a love affair with small business. It's nonsensical.

[westopher]

I think you seem to believe that people are looking at this a lot more black and white than they are.
No one in here is dumb enough to believe every small business owner is an angel or dumb enough to believe every large company doesn’t give a fuck about their employees, but it’s not that hard to figure out from
A) personal experiences with the companies
B) any sort of information available about the businesses online
Who fits in to either category.
I’m sure there are people elsewhere that fit into that mentality but I think we are pretty aware as far as people partaking in that conversation.

Edit:
The large corporations that do offer gainful employment are really not often found in the retail and foodservice sector, like things we would be purchasing from on a day to day basis. They are technological, large scale manufacturing companies.
Walmart, amazon, Mac Donald’s, etc are the examples I’m making a point about in comparison to your local restaurants, retail and clothing stores

[320icar]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

What the hell are you talking about? I live in Vancouver, and almost exclusively patronize mom-and-pop business and stores. The grocery stores nearby (Safeway, Whole Foods, Save Ons) are probably the only "big box" stores I've set foot in the past 6 months prior to COVID. Even now I'm only doing takeout from my local hole-in-the-wall faves. Perhaps it depends entirely on the neighborhood one lives in but I can pretty much get everything from local shops - Hardware, Produce, meat, etc. I don't really buy electronics or clothing very often so that negates me going a lot of bigger stores. Whereas when I visit I find it's mostly suburbanites and smaller town folks that do all their shopping at places like Walmart, Costco, Home Depot. Eat at Boston Pizza, Cactus Club, Earls. If the town is small enough, then yeah, a lot of businesses are still local.

I stand by what I said, but your posts always have a shitty attitude to them.

[ImportPsycho]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04...ated-incident/

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by 320icar

I stand by what I said, but your posts always have a shitty attitude to them.

Sorry.

[6793026]

Originally Posted by Hakkaboy

We may never know if we acted too early and overreacted, but we will definitely know if we acted too late

great quote... singapore learned it the hard way. They thought OH, they are world leader in this covid19 on containing.. opened for a bit and bam 300+ new cases. Shut down again.

I can't wait to see how US will see a sudden spike on wave 2 or 3.


I personally have shopped at small business for groceries even though I live in richmond. I don't go to TNT or price smart. I find TNT has really jacked up items beyond what's normal. Now save on foods, I do need my milk and butter which I cna't get from chinese groceries stores.

Even when I had a job, because I've been blessed being a good home cook, but growing up, mom and dad never had any income to order in or take out.
But man I see so many take out deliveries to our neighbors, I don't know how people can eat that much deliveries.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by 6793026

great quote... singapore learned it the hard way. They thought OH, they are world leader in this covid19 on containing.. opened for a bit and bam 300+ new cases. Shut down again.

Almost all of the new cases are from Foreign workers living in cramped dormitories. Singapore didn't really even "lockdown" until April.



https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...ories-12660968

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by ImportPsycho

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04...ated-incident/

Good luck hiding, you dumb fuck.

Assaulting a 92-year-old senior. Real tough.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

Remember that time when Morneau thought small business owners were super rich 1%ers and tried to increase taxes and tried to remove tax shifting mechanisms? Guess he never knew small businesses ran on such slim margins that they couldn't last a month without income.

Not all small business owners are broke.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by ImportPsycho

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04...ated-incident/

This occurred on March 13th, at the height of confusion/panic. Not excusing his behaviour, but I find it odd why it took over a month to have the story come out.