coronavirus discussion

[Jmac]

Care Aides make about $25/hour in the public sector in BC. I would imagine private wouldn’t be that much less.

[6793026]

I follow this Calgary columnist 高慧然 and she wrote an article... hilarious cause I'm sure it's 90% true. Chinese translation.
https://www.singtaousa.com/uncategor...D%81%E5%85%AB/

Korean US citizen male returned to Harbin China. During isolation, he had sex with the female neighbor, who was also in isolation, named "Cindy" during isolation.

Cindy then infected her boyfriend and mother.

THEN

Cindy's BF, has gf # 3 and gf # 4.
Cindy's M-O-M met up with her "previous lover".

Cindy's mom's old lover has intimate "friends" *fuck friends.

Fuck friends all spread to dads and siblings....

1 Korean / US dude during quarantine spread to Cindy and infected 18 people...resulting 456 needing isolation.

In a similar case in Taiwan:

Asia woman went on vacation few month back, stating/ saying she lives a "simple life" stay at home cook.
After in depth and thorough investigation, she has a "part time job" every Wednesday as an "accountant" at a hotel.

TURNS out she's a hot/high profile escort; took on multiple clients even when she had symptoms. She warned officials to keep her identify / occupation private, they said NO..

Her identity had to be disclosed to allow others in contact with her to isolate.... danggggg

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by EndLeSS8

For your first point on causation vs correlation, if you're going to be so specific, then I agree with you, HOWEVER, you are arguing semantics. If you are judging Dr. Henry's work by her live broadcasts alone, then yes, it is impossible to LITERALLY KNOW DIRECTLY as a result of what she has done, is improving the situation in BC (Because she's not imposing martial law or some other unrealistic, dictatorship type rules that force people to stay at home)

My response was to 1337 in him saying that it was because of "Asian cultural influence" being the main reason why the outbreak in BC has been relatively under control. I said that "Asian cultural influence" is bullshit. Do you agree with him that the relatively low outbreak is because of the "Asian cultural influence"?

For your second point, I haven't been around the entire Lower Mainland to give a fully accurate response. However, I will say, at least in my neighborhood in Burnaby, it's the response has been pretty good overall - people have been distancing and following the rules. And in general, Vancouver residents have been relatively sane and not doing crazy protest shit like the USA. From what I saw online, the 1st protest in Vancouver had 24 people, and the 2nd protest had about 100 people. That is a relatively small percentage compared to the entire population of the Lower Mainland. Yes, I have seen photos and everything about the parks/ Seawall and all the non-social-distancing.

She's well-revered in the Canadian medical circle. If you ask medical staffs to choose between Doc Bonnie and David Williams (ON), there is no question who would be preferred. I would invite people to do more research instead of just dissing her (maybe because she's a woman?)

It is a collective effort of the entire population and she provides the necessary , and thus far, correct leadership and guidance. I'm involving in a COVID-19 project that analyzes non-pharmaceutical interventions from federal and provinces. BC has the earliest and highest number of interventions by far. And our containment result reflects that. Here's an interesting fact: BC is the first province in Canada to issue warning memos to medical practitioners about COVID-19 in early January, way before federal and other provinces. It really is not shocking when you look at data to understand how well we're doing instead of looking at anecdotal evidence (my neighbors in the driveway, English Bay gathering, etc.) The majority of us is doing our part and that matters a lot.

[underscore]

edit: don't waste your time.

[SSM_DC5]

Originally Posted by Jmac

Care Aides make about $25/hour in the public sector in BC. I would imagine private wouldn’t be that much less.

Your imagination would be incorrect. Private can much less. If you're familiar with the health order to choose 1 site, when listening to a reason why a RCA chose one over the other, it was because wage differed by $5 per hour. Then on top of that, some private places don't have anything close to the public sector when it comes to premiums. That in itself can be a $5 difference

[whitev70r]

As with all things, it depends. Amica, Legacy, Shannon Oaks on Granville, and Tapestry here in Vancouver pay pretty well. They are high end senior care homes that charges residents north of $6K a month.

Some of the chains in ON and Quebec that are low budget (like Extendacare) skimp on everything probably pay less than public ones. You can't generalize and say things like ALL private care homes are higher or lower than public.

[hud 91gt]

She is a boss, and not someone to mess with. Yet she is extremely
compassionate.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. She is the shit. My wife had her as a professor as well as she deals with her almost on a daily basis for her work. She has the utmost respect for the woman.

[The Producer]

Our East Asian influence has a very large part in the success compared to East coast cities.

Richmond has a third of the outbreak as the rest of Metro Vancouver

Originally Posted by The Producer

Source? Not being a dick, I'd like to know. The health authorities specifically don't release regional information like this.

If you mean number of outbreaks, what do you expect? If the jail was in Richmond instead of Mission, Richmond would have the outbreak. That was happening no matter where the jail is located.

[1337]

Originally Posted by The Producer

I didn't want to go unnecessarily back and forth on what someone felt was the factor for BC's success. As someone stated, it's complex and I solely stated a factor I believed in contributed to the low counts of BC.

Anyways, the figures were accidentally reported by a health official. Richmond had 1/3 the rate compared to the rest of Canada and 1/2 relative to Vancouver.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/unit...s-most-chinese

[Jmac]

BC health officials have tried to keep secret the Covid-19 prevalence in municipalities, ...

*links video of BC health official stating approximate numbers of cases by municipality in a public forum organized by a BC health organization* (at about 11:30 into video)

Originally Posted by 1337

Richmond has a third of the outbreak as the rest of Metro Vancouver

You can't even compare to the rest of Metro Vancouver because VCH only covers Richmond, Vancouver, West Vancouver, and North Vancouver in Metro Vancouver. It doesn't cover cities and municipalities east of Vancouver or south of Richmond (Fraser Health region).

https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...9e3cda29297ded

Based on current numbers and assuming Richmond still represents about 10% of VCH cases:
This puts the entire Island Health region way ahead of Richmond (14 vs 44 per 100,000). The Greater Victoria region is about double the population of Richmond.

This puts the entire Interior Health region way ahead of Richmond (24 vs 44 per 100,000). Kelowna is about 2/3 the population of Richmond.

This puts the entire Northern Health region way ahead of Richmond (20 vs 44 per 100,000). Prince George is about 1/3 the population of Richmond.

Throwing out of province numbers at you, Toronto vs London vs Ottawa. London has about 3/4 of the cases per 100,000 that Toronto has yet only has a 2% Chinese demographic as opposed to Toronto's 12%. Meanwhile, Ottawa exceeds both at 178 per 100,000 (32% more than Toronto, 68% more than London) but has a 5% Chinese demographic.

That paper is just pushing a pro-Chinese angle without any real proof, just correlating the high-Chinese demographic of Richmond and its low COVID rate relative to other cities/municipalities in the VCH region.

Is a high-Chinese demo a factor in Richmond's relatively low COVID numbers? Maybe. Is it the primary factor? Highly doubtful.

[Hondaracer]

The guy who wrote the article as well has had some bullshit articles before in the province. Most print media guys these days seem to need to add little spins or quasi controversy into their articles because no one is reading them anymore

[welfare]

Richmond was like a ghost town back in March. I know Vancouver has a much higher population, but there were waaaaay more people just out and about there even into April.
I do feel like residents in Richmond took it more seriously and refrained from going out. Just from what i could see compared to other municipalities.

[whitev70r]

It appears that the cases in Richmond are statistically lower based on the info given by Dr. Lysyshn, deputy MO of VCH.



Again, if you think you can reduce it to one factor, then you're either a genius or a fool.

[6793026]

^ Great stat.
I met up with the GM who runs one of the biggest care home and she shed some light.

90% of Richmond care home, retirement homes, their staff does NOT work at multiple care homes, so the transmission of COVID is actually low.

Look at whiterock / North Van, many of hte aids are jumping from 2 shifts per day at different site.

Explains why Dr says stay put at only 1 care home and why North Shore Hollyburn had a huge outbreak.

[Hondaracer]

The Asian population of Richmond staying at home does not account for the overall numbers because if the spread was as bad as initially thought, it wouldn’t have mattered. Community transmission would have been overwhelming with the amount of people still out and about and not following strict guidelines.

The city of Vancouver population is more than triple that of Richmond and a much higher density, if there was going to be an outbreak there would have been an outbreak.

Also with that graph it’s basically saying that Vancouver had 300 more confirmed cases with a population of 650,000 as opposed to 80 cases with a population of 200,000. Those numbers are peanuts.

Edit* hey...just noticed I crossed 30,000 posts..

[The Producer]

Originally Posted by 1337

I didn't want to go unnecessarily back and forth on what someone felt was the factor for BC's success. As someone stated, it's complex and I solely stated a factor I believed in contributed to the low counts of BC.

Anyways, the figures were accidentally reported by a health official. Richmond had 1/3 the rate compared to the rest of Canada and 1/2 relative to Vancouver.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/unit...s-most-chinese

Thank you for responding - this is what I asked for.

Frankly, Jmac has done a better job than I ever could breaking it down. I'd simply point out that IMO the "outbreaks" have much more to do with the type of facility in which they predominantly occur than where said facilities happen to be located.

Any one of our personal ancidodal evidence means nothing. If in your opinion Richmond was a ghost town, I can simply say north van was even more of so because that's my confirmation bias. It doesn't mean anything.

IN MY OPINION the reason BC has done as "well" as it has is for the following reason: unlike other jurisdictions we are treated like adults. No true lockdown.

An a separate note, I don't think it helps to further the narrative that we are all out here on different teams. Richmond vs Vancouver. "east-asian" (your words) vs. other ethnic groups.

It means nothing. The virus has shown it is totally non-discriminatory (except mercifully ignoring little kids). It sells papers (lol) and generates clicks. Skim the daily briefings, and try to find an outlet like this thread to have an open discussion.

BC is in it together. The only numbers that matter are provincial numbers - until you realize that they don't matter either. Neither do Canadian numbers. All we can do now is stay the course - and fortunately that is what BC seems to do better than anywhere else.

[1337]

Originally Posted by Jmac

*links video of BC health official stating approximate numbers of cases by municipality in a public forum organized by a BC health organization* (at about 11:30 into video)


You can't even compare to the rest of Metro Vancouver because VCH only covers Richmond, Vancouver, West Vancouver, and North Vancouver in Metro Vancouver. It doesn't cover cities and municipalities east of Vancouver or south of Richmond (Fraser Health region).

https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...9e3cda29297ded

Based on current numbers and assuming Richmond still represents about 10% of VCH cases:
This puts the entire Island Health region way ahead of Richmond (14 vs 44 per 100,000). The Greater Victoria region is about double the population of Richmond.

This puts the entire Interior Health region way ahead of Richmond (24 vs 44 per 100,000). Kelowna is about 2/3 the population of Richmond.

This puts the entire Northern Health region way ahead of Richmond (20 vs 44 per 100,000). Prince George is about 1/3 the population of Richmond.

Throwing out of province numbers at you, Toronto vs London vs Ottawa. London has about 3/4 of the cases per 100,000 that Toronto has yet only has a 2% Chinese demographic as opposed to Toronto's 12%. Meanwhile, Ottawa exceeds both at 178 per 100,000 (32% more than Toronto, 68% more than London) but has a 5% Chinese demographic.

That paper is just pushing a pro-Chinese angle without any real proof, just correlating the high-Chinese demographic of Richmond and its low COVID rate relative to other cities/municipalities in the VCH region.

Is a high-Chinese demo a factor in Richmond's relatively low COVID numbers? Maybe. Is it the primary factor? Highly doubtful.

I used the word East Asian influence and was not pushing out any pro-Chinese agenda. I made a mention of certain values that are inherently East Asian including instilling behaviours such as wearing face masks in public to prevent the spreading of any potential virus. It was not until mid-April that our government doctors finally stated that face masks may slow down the spread of the virus and before that repeatedly cited no scientific evident of face masks working. Wearing face masks outside was quickly adopted by the Asian community well before the virus was termed a pandemic. All I'm saying is behaviours as a result of cultural background and influences may play a part in the outcomes. I'm looking at outcomes (South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, US East Coast vs.West Coast outcomes) and deducing it to what I feel may be a factor in the success.

I'm not going to go into population density. Someone mentioned about remote areas in BC.

I didn't intend to trigger anyone and I apologize if it did. I hope everyone is spending quality time over this long weekend with their family.

[The Producer]

Originally Posted by 1337

I didn't intend to trigger anyone and I apologize if it did. I hope everyone is spending quality time over this long weekend with their family.

not triggered - I think you brought an interesting viewpoint to the discussion, and I was just worried we weren't going to explore it a bit.

[Spoon]

The pandemics in the past few decades took place in Asia. And as Asians whether we were here or there, we were exposed to more details be it media outlets, family or what not. Is it that surprising we are more educated and aware than most non-Asians on the matter? We were just more prepared before these places started taking things seriously.

[punkwax]

^ yes it’s just like when people fart. The culprit knows it’s coming and can prepare for the aftermath. It’s everyone around who is negatively affected by the gross behaviour and outcome.

[welfare]

^^^hahaha!!! Great analogy
Edit: however i think there's been plenty enough evidence come forward to show that this didn't jump to humans at the market originally if that's the behavior you're referring to.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by The Producer

An a separate note, I don't think it helps to further the narrative that we are all out here on different teams. Richmond vs Vancouver. "east-asian" (your words) vs. other ethnic groups.

It means nothing. The virus has shown it is totally non-discriminatory (except mercifully ignoring little kids). It sells papers (lol) and generates clicks. Skim the daily briefings, and try to find an outlet like this thread to have an open discussion.

BC is in it together. The only numbers that matter are provincial numbers - until you realize that they don't matter either. Neither do Canadian numbers. All we can do now is stay the course - and fortunately that is what BC seems to do better than anywhere else.

But at the same time i think we could agree that it's certainly a good idea to look at regions/countries/ethnicities with lower rates and speculate why that may be the case so we might learn from it.

[The Producer]

^^ sure - to Spoon's point that parts of the world have more experience with this than we do, of course we can learn from that.

Unfortunately some foreign governments haven't been that forthcoming with their information

Having said that, I think we have something to teach as well. I think we're showing that it's possible to combat this threat without imposing authoritarian methodology. I'm a lot more inclined to follow a directive than an order.

[Spoon]

SARS was over a decade ago. When covid19 broke out, many cities in Asia were in the dark much like we were, but they utilized the same methods they battled SARS almost immediately.

The western world had more than enough information and case studies to learn how to react to an epidemic. They saw how cities like Taiwan, Korea and Hong Kong reacted with success. They just failed to react to it because the mentality is that it won't reach our shores.

To the fart analogy, this is not the first time you smelled a fart. If you know it will take your life and you choose to suck it all in. All the information in the world wouldn't have saved you.

[Presto]

We bought tickets for a couple concerts at Abbotsford Centre. The shows are a month from now. The first one has been rescheduled to Sept 8. Likely the 2nd one will be rescheduled, as well. Assholes. Gimme my money, dammit! I am not going to go to packed arena 3.5 months from now.