coronavirus discussion

[Hondaracer]

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Few of the travel bloggers I follow who are still travelling around now it’s like, is anyone capable of social distancing? Lol

[The Producer]

our strategy has been to give people the opportunity to make their own (right) decisions. why do we need the government to make and enforce more laws so that the population does the right thing? do you stop at red lights because the government decrees it? or because you want to stay alive? do you wear your seatbelt because you're afraid of a traffic ticket? or because you want to survive a crash?

Save on Foods and London Drugs ownerships should be taking responsibility. They don't need to say the government is making them enforce a mask policy - they need to say we're doing this because it's the best thing we can do for our community.

The provincial government's job is to keep roads paved, and schools funded. It's not to make laws that would allow somebody to knock on your door and fine you for having a house party.

I have some theories about the ever vocal groups of people that demand fines and punishment for others.

[StylinRed]

Unfortunately ppl don't follow the rules, and it's becoming a problem, which will end up being a problem for all of us, not just the idiots, so if you're going to act like a child, then you need a parent

This isn't the usa

[twitchyzero]

everyone has their own interpretation of right decisions

see guy without mask screaming at tnt employee saying he has asthma and tells the employee to get out of his face while stepping closer

[The Producer]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I would recommend copying what Hong Kong is doing

Do this for 2 weeks:

-Compulsory masks in ALL indoor public spaces
-Closure of indoor businesses that have close contact with people. Gyms, hair dressers, tattooers, etc. HK has some niche categories like karaoke, mahjong, but anything that is similar should be closed for two weeks to prevent another outbreak.
-Restaurants take-out only (HK is after 6pm only, but IMO this should apply all day)

that's funny - my social media is covered in stories about the HK numbers blowing up this weekend

to what end? what if there's never a tried and true vaccine or treatment? do these places simply cease to exist?

I know this is more for the "because of covid" thread - but nobody championing this type of policy has lost their business or livelihood.

it's easy to say what "we" should do. But it's not "we" unless you've taken an equal hit during this time. I've lost 80% of my income in the last 4 months have you? *

*(I'm not saying you specifically SP - I just hear this shit a lot from people who's paycheques haven't changed, and for whom the gym closing is simply an inconvenience - as opposed to the gym owners who may never recover)

[The Producer]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

Unfortunately ppl don't follow the rules, and it's becoming a problem, which will end up being a problem for all of us, not just the idiots, so if you're going to act like a child, then you need a parent

This isn't the usa

most do - and those that don't are heavily weighted in the modelling.

Bottom line is all of these plans are simply designed to reduce the delta between mass infection and a treatment. We have walked a fine line so far, we will continue to do so.

BC is being that parent that lets kids figure stuff out for themselves. For many people these days, that concept seems unbelievable.

[Hehe]

If you look at what Taiwan, a country that have gotten the upperhand on the virus, has done, it's NOT just about protection.

I'm not discouraging the use of masks and all the hygienic practices, yes, those are basics protections that reduce the probability of spread.

HOWEVER, to really keep a control over the virus, it's about tracing.

Taiwan never enforced mandatory mask wearing on the national level AND neither did they implemented a full lockdown, all in a place about the size of Vancouver island with almost 24million people.

What they did was to carefully track and trace everyone. If a positive case is discovered, they would identify everyone (in the national database at least, which accounts for pretty much every citizen) in close contact to isolate all these people. And also implement thermo cameras in all major transportation hubs or public places that one has to "check-in" with their ID for record purpose.

We have yet to fully understand the spreading capability of the virus, and the public isn't exactly using protective gears as they are intended to use. Thus, focusing too much on protective gears only give you that fake sense of security and overlook the bigger picture.

A good and long time friend of mine in Argentina just got diagnosed 2 days ago. And he's a maniac who wears 2 masks, face visor and 2 sets of gloves with every hygienic precaution you can think of followed to the most pathetic detail... and yet he got infected.

As we are looking this into a longer term, I think it's still NOT too late to implement a system (which both Google and Apple have developed, we could tweak a bit based on our privacy laws) that can track and trace everyone as now even your grandma has a smartphone.

We can't go back to lock down the province. Not only it doesn't work. (Argentina went through a very harsh lockdown, and yet they are in an absolute shit as far as infection goes) Going that route, it means that if the virus doesn't kill one directly, it would kill the very livehood that the person depends on.

[twitchyzero]

we got people protesting masks are carcinogenic so wishful thinking we'll get anything close to a taiwan system working here

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

we got people protesting masks are carcinogenic so wishful thinking we'll get anything close to a taiwan system working here

Just have to make it mandatory. It's like ID when buying alcohol. No ID, no purchase.

If you make it in an app and only allow people with the digital ID on their phone to scan and go in, you can open a business up in a much closer to the past.

I think we are at a stage where we should start discussing on the measures that we need to take to go back to "normal" while keeping the spread under check.

Without a system like this... all you can do is shutting everything back down when cases go up too fast. And for things like school and work... you can't expect it to function with any efficiency if they have to prepare to shut down at minute notice.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by The Producer

that's funny - my social media is covered in stories about the HK numbers blowing up this weekend

to what end? what if there's never a tried and true vaccine or treatment? do these places simply cease to exist?

I know this is more for the "because of covid" thread - but nobody championing this type of policy has lost their business or livelihood.

it's easy to say what "we" should do. But it's not "we" unless you've taken an equal hit during this time. I've lost 80% of my income in the last 4 months have you? *

*(I'm not saying you specifically SP - I just hear this shit a lot from people who's paycheques haven't changed, and for whom the gym closing is simply an inconvenience - as opposed to the gym owners who may never recover)

Those exploding numbers are exactly why those measures were put into place. Before that, we were doing what you're suggesting - let people deal with it themselves.

And they dealt with it pretty well compared to Canadians. Like 95%+ compliance wearing masks voluntarily.

Nothing besides that though... No real social distancing anymore, businesses were opening as usual. Borders were still heavily controlled though, so no tourists, etc.

And look at what happened.

So now after 3 weeks of zero local cases, HK is getting record numbers, hundreds getting sick every day, and more people dying than before (though the death rate so far has strictly been old/sick people).

BC has a chance to get in front of it with stricter measures BEFORE seeing these record numbers. Because if they don't, it's going to happen. It seems to be pretty inevitable outside Japan and China (if you believe their reporting).

Maybe they don't need to go that strict. Maybe masks-only in public transportation for now.

As an aside, as for the seatbelt thing, I think you'd be surprised at how many people only wear one for lawful compliance. If given the choice, probably half the population over 40 would simply stop wearing them. Fuck I've seen people use FAKE SEATBELT CLIPS that they plug in to shut off the alarm, just so they can drive without a seatbelt.

So you can't leave masks up to people. Not in US or Canada at least. Maybe 20 years from now, but not yet. Stubborn foolish people just find it unacceptable to wear one. So you have to force it.

[SkinnyPupp]

Important info on masks here. Because even if they don't block the virus from getting in, they block MOST of it, which means you are more likely to only get a mild - or asymptomatic - infection.

in settings where there are outbreaks but everyone masked, there's, like, a 95% rate of not having symptoms at all. There was actually a outbreak in a chicken factory, outbreak in a seafood factory in this country. But everyone was masking. And it was 95% asymptomatic rate of infection.

[iwantaskyline]

My company of roughly 100-120 employees want us all back in the office in August...Crazy thing is we're a fucking tech company so we can all work remote without any significant loss in productivity.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by The Producer

I know this is more for the "because of covid" thread - but nobody championing this type of policy has lost their business or livelihood.

it's easy to say what "we" should do. But it's not "we" unless you've taken an equal hit during this time. I've lost 80% of my income in the last 4 months have you? *

*(I'm not saying you specifically SP - I just hear this shit a lot from people who's paycheques haven't changed, and for whom the gym closing is simply an inconvenience - as opposed to the gym owners who may never recover)

By the same token, are you* high risk? It's equally easy to be more concerned about losing some income or a business when you aren't the "we" with a high chance of being killed by this. If not, are you okay with increasing the number of your fellow citizens who are killed or have long term health complications just to protect your paycheque or your business?

* same disclaimer, not you specifically. But of those focused on the financial aspect, how many have lost a close family member?

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

https://youtu.be/0OIRan2WhsA

Few of the travel bloggers I follow who are still travelling around now it’s like, is anyone capable of social distancing? Lol

That's pretty jacked, what caught my attention was how sanitary the food truck chick is, I mean at least she's wearing gloves to wipe her nose.

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[The Producer]

Originally Posted by underscore

By the same token, are you* high risk? It's equally easy to be more concerned about losing some income or a business when you aren't the "we" with a high chance of being killed by this. If not, are you okay with increasing the number of your fellow citizens who are killed or have long term health complications just to protect your paycheque or your business?

* same disclaimer, not you specifically. But of those focused on the financial aspect, how many have lost a close family member?

I mean - it's fair to reinforce my point that we are not all affected by this in the same way.

Having said that, if you or people around you face a greater risk at this time it's absolutely up to you and them to take responsibility for that yourselves. Anybody can self-isolate at any time. That is their choice. From the beginning the message has been STAY HOME. Just because the restaurant reopened doesn't mean you should go there unless you are willing to accept the consequences of doing so. Do not blame the government for failing to protect you from situations you can avoid.

If you don't want to come into my store - don't come. But if you do come in please don't expect me to call the cops if the customer that walks in behind you isn't wearing a mask.

BTW I'm absolutely pro mask. I also think that the government could lead the way here by requiring them in government run establishments and programs. Transit - hell ya that should be mandatory. You could employ a ton of university kids to hand out free masks all over the transit system. We already have a transit police that can enforce it. Not fines, not arrests, not big youtube viral vids - just denial of service. Same thing in government buildings, liquor stores etc.

(it's neither here nor there, but yes - people in my life are severely compromised, and we have lost a family friend to covid)

[JDMDreams]

I wonder when wave 2 closure is. Karen's don't seem to get that if they get infected it might spread to their work place, or places they go so they have to shut down anyways. It's no longer the government forcing everyone to shut down but random locations being forced closed because the infected have been there.

But yea I'm all for mandatory masks in indoor places, why would you wear gloves but not a mask

[westopher]

The only time I don’t wear my mask inside is if I’m going to a restaurant. I won’t be going to anywhere with more than 50 seats, and without social distancing measures in place. I made the mistake of going to coal harbour cactus, and honestly the staff and setup were doing a great job, but when you have that many people of the 20-40 demographic, you just can’t prepare for how stupid people are.
I certainly won’t be going to any more car meets for the rest of the year and I’d suggest many of my friends on here consider the same.

People need to remember that the government has no intention or even possibility of elimination of this virus in our community. There are going to be peaks and valleys, and it’s our job to be aware that we are climbing up and to responsibly alter our behaviour to prevent further transmission. They can’t just keep shutting the world down, it’s not a sustainable form of control. They are spoon feeding the population the information we need. It’s our responsibility to process it.

[320icar]

For a while I was pointing out certain demographics like age groups, but now that I’m back at work (speaking for richmond) I think every group is doing amazing. There are people in every age and race that are choosing not to wear masks etc and that’s fine.

Now only if it were like this everywhere

Edit: I’ll point out the worst group. It’s the white people that give me the extremely strong gut feeling that they are *not* from richmond or Vancouver. You know the ones with an X factor you can’t quite put your finger on. But usually A little overweight (so am I it’s okay), full buggy of junk Food, two or three kids running around touching everything, no masks or acknowledgement that there’s even a pandemic going on etc. They never ever have any sort of PPE on

[JDMDreams]

I was in Walmart over the weekend and I only think I saw one or two employees wear a mask and they were huddled together chatting

[westopher]

I mean, you are walking into a business that is known across the continent for not giving a shit about their employees well being, where’s the surprise?

[CivicBlues]

To all these "I was at ____ and only saw ____ masks on" posts. How many of you actually channeled your inner Karen and spoke to the manager of these establishments voicing your concerns about this? Tell them you will no longer be patronizing their establishment until their employees are all masked up/social distancing is enforced/etc, etc.

It would sure as hell be more effective than ranting about it every day on some car forum or reddit.

[Hondaracer]

Who do you contact in regards to these business?

I’m gonna report Morrey auto because that shit was rediculous given the circumstances

[320icar]

^^ be a Karen and talk to their managers. I tell that to customers every day when I see them complain. Any extra precautions only makes me safer

[Hondaracer]

After I brought this up to a friend we had lunch with on Sunday he said Morrey Mazda was the same thing if not worse a month ago. So I think it’s a systemic problem at Morrey not just a matter of informing their managers.

[CivicBlues]

be an uber-karen and ask to speak to the manager's manager.